Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ...
5
6
7
8
9
LastLast
  1. #121
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Tampa Bay, Florida
    Posts
    4,726
    Honestly what they need to do is just quit having half a dozen or more mechanics in raids nowadays. LFR has to be a dumbed down version of the actual raid, so if the actual boss has 5-6 abilities then the LFR boss tends to have at least 4 if they don't have all of them that just hit for less, but that doesn't solve the problem of the type of people who queue for LFR usually can't handle that many things going on. This is why Dark Shaman is such a terrible fight IMO, doubly so in LFR. There's what, 6 things going on at once (tank debuffs, slime geyser, slime adds, elemental wall, meteor, purple swirlies?) and it's no wonder LFR people can't deal with that.

    It's going to be harsh but they need to just cap boss abilities at like 2-3 abilities per boss, and be done with it. Maybe you can add an extra one for heroic mode. Instead, they said they LIKE the idea of personal responsibility and with determination stacks (and other things in general) they can tune the bosses to be super complex because either you can drop to an easier mode or every time you wipe you get a damage/health buff. That's just piss poor encounter design IMO. I daresay the majority would be happy with fewer mechanics overall, in LFR and elsewhere and those who like lots of mechanics, well sorry but you're the minority here.
    NOBLESHIELD
    Raids & Dungeons Moderator | Twitch Stream | Wayniac#1291


  2. #122
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    3,057
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesmarcus View Post
    LFR crowd wanted a difficulty that was just for people who wanted to run LFR. LFR crowd have that difficulty. The crowd of raiders, casual raiders, or people who ahve invested even an iota of time in to the game and being social can run Flex now and not have to put up with the worst experience in WoW. Everyone wins. Raiders get to stay out of LFR, and LFR can be for the people who LFR is catered for. I know many a time I've been flamed for attempting to tell tactics and dare to vote to kick AFK'ers or people 20th on DPS.

    But, any attempt to constrctively deal with the problems has led to people being branded as 'raiders' 'elitist scum' 'this is a difficulty for us'. Now with no legendary quest in LFR, no real incentive to run it due to the low item level, it truly is.
    Pretty much this. I feel bad for the few decent players still running LFR but the only thing I can say, is stop doing LFR and find a Flex group. It ain't that hard to find one that meets your requirements and it's a lot less stressful.

    That being said, I'm sure SoO LFR will improve within a few weeks, when the masses have gotten several upgrades and sorta know what to do.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgarlaw View Post
    Then kindly explain why it has never been THIS bad up until the Clueless Isle came along.
    I remember taking like three to six attempts to beat Garalon every, single, week.
    Praise the Quest Writers for they give life to otherwise boring expansions.

  4. #124
    Give people a full set of 566 and the majority would still be teribad. Some sort of AFK check would be more beneficial, or at least a DPS floor requirement (40-50k entering SoO LFR is very generous, I've seen much lower...)

    This one time at Brand Camp, I got Singed.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgarlaw View Post
    Then kindly explain why it has never been THIS bad up until the Clueless Isle came along.
    Because a good portion of the "better" players went to Flex. Its not like all of a sudden there are tons of people doing LFR that weren't before. If anything, it is the opposite.

  6. #126
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    The Frozen Wasteland
    Posts
    2,573
    Quote Originally Posted by onemanaleft View Post
    its very easy to be full 535

    its a bit rediculous that any average joe can be 550 ilvl right now (upgrades + cloak)
    Are you kidding?

    You can't get hold of a full set of 535 gear in a reasonable amount of time, and when you do, it will probably have silly itemization.

    Someone has to have been working on the cloak for at least 10 weeks full tilt (with luck), or for several months off and on.

    What's easy is to get a couple of 535 pieces. Or if you are like my priest, get 4 or 5 burdens the first day before they nerfed the slot machine monkey.

  7. #127
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,196
    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgarlaw View Post
    Then kindly explain why it has never been THIS bad up until the Clueless Isle came along.
    Heh. Aheh. AHAHAHAAHAHA. It has always been this bad - one time in Elegon LFR my group lost some people to the floor. BOTH. TANKS.

  8. #128
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    The Frozen Wasteland
    Posts
    2,573
    Then kindly explain why it has never been THIS bad up until the Clueless Isle came along.
    It HAS been this bad before. However, there have never been two bosses as difficult (by LFR standards) back to back as Shamans and Nazgrim, preceded by another slow fight (Galakras).

    No one in his right mind in LFR is going to be flasked or fully optimized, especially if he's playing four or eight different alts. It's perfectly easy to explain people doing 50-60k in 496 gear on new encounters involving a lot of movement in so-so gear with no idea where the tank is going to go, et cetera. That's the DPS you do in that gear under those circumstances if you are actually trying a little.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgarlaw View Post
    Then kindly explain why it has never been THIS bad up until the Clueless Isle came along.

    Say what?

    Clearly you don't remember the fun times to be had on Horridon in 5.2 - 5.3.

    Or Durumu before he was treated like a paladin (TO THE GROUND).

    Or even Lei Shen.

    The average LFRite is just BAD...plain and simple. All the gear in the world won't help them. Note that I said average, not all. I'm not hating on LFR, just the mentality it's provoked in SOME people that think they deserve to do something just because they pay the same $15 as everyone else.
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  10. #130
    I just resubbed after 5 months, jumped into LFR with 503 ilvl, not knowing the bosses and still ended up in top 1-2 healing on each boss. It's not about timeless/lfr/flex or any other gear. Gear is not the issue.

    P.S. Not trying to brag or anything, I just shared a fact that contributes.

  11. #131
    The Patient Lunareste's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    247
    As others have said, the "problem" (lol) with LFR is that the people who used to carry LFRs are no longer queing for them due to Flex.

    It will sort itself out eventually, however. Either everyone who AFKs/severely underperforms on bosses will begin to participate because they get nothing if their group doesn't kill the boss, or most people who try putting in an effort when they play will stop queing for LFR and will que for Flex instead. And then the AFKers will truly get nothing because then they will only que with other players who do nothing.

    Either way, Flex is a great addition to the game and the LFR community will be forced to police itself if they want to get their content done.

    I'm a washed up, has-been.

  12. #132
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    1,894
    The reason why LFR is so awful right now is because the 4-5 people who carried in each ToT run are no longer queuing. Heroic raiders this tier have absolutely (or little) reason to queue and others have just started doing flex because of how awful an experience LFR can be.

    I'm 11/14HC and while I have done LFR every tier for maybe a month or two in 5.0 and 5.2, I haven't stepped foot into it once in 5.4. Prior to this patch they baited players like myself in with gear and the possibility of grabbing legendary quest pieces so that you could complete a step before your main raid. The iLvL difference is staggering now, the trinkets are balanced such that ToT HC are still just as good and there is no 'bait' for players like myself to enter.

    Mind you I'm not saying heroic and normal mode raiders are saving grace of LFR, but generally they know a bit more about playing the game then these people who solely do LFR like the OP is saying. But if you remove a group of people that by comparison pump out 3x to 4x more damage/HPS and generally know how each boss works virtue of heroic/normal/flex, well then you make it far more difficult.

    The issue isn't the Isle or any gear you hand 'bads'. Bad players are still going to be bad and there aren't enough good players in the system to balance that out. Hence LFR is a mess.

  13. #133
    LFR is always bad when new wings come out.

    Deathwing, Will, Garalon, Tsulong, Ji-Kun, Durumu, Lei Shen, etc.

    People learn the fights and get better at them(plus some nerfs from Blizz) and then people switch from complaining about how LFR is too hard to complaints about LFR being too faceroll.

    Look at all the threads about how Norushen was a LFR killer. I've 1-shot it on 3 characters this week. Dark Shaman are OMG hard, but already my LFR groups are killing them with only a couple of wipes.

    Spoils is probably the hardest boss in LFR 3 and in a few weeks when people get better at it, same thing will happen. And then people will be complaining about how hard part 4 is...until players figure out those fights.

    To be honest, I think SoO LFR is easier than previous tiers because I've felt most of the problems come from not understanding mechanics. I've run into fewer situations of the raid not having the healing/dps for the fight than in previous LFRs.

  14. #134
    The Lightbringer Agoonga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    3,057
    I do not want Timeless Isle gear ilvl to be reduced or the ilvl requirement to queue for SoO to be raised even higher. I had already level 2 characters' ilvls up to SoO level before 5.4 and I want to do it as character I don't play as much but, know how to play as.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgarlaw View Post
    Then kindly explain why it has never been THIS bad up until the Clueless Isle came along.
    Its pretty simple flex is why lfr is bad, anyone half decent just does flex and ignores lfr. So all thats left is the bads and the 1-2 decent people that can't carry a whole raid. It has nothing to do with isle gear.

  16. #136
    To be honest, the problem is player mentality, not too low gear requirement. Give those slackers full set of heroic warforged gear, item level 574. I still fail to see big improvement in their DPS, maybe a little bit because their abilities will hit much harder than with crappy gear. But if they decide to afk the fight, even 999 ilvl gear won't do any good. If someone pulls 40k dps in 496 gear, no offense he either slacks HUGE time or is just plain horrible. Typical normal-mode raider pulled 65-70k dps on Feng the Accursed, in 460-465 ilvl gear (dungeon blues, i had DMF trinket too). By the time they got 496 ilvl after weeks of farming normal HOF and TOES (maybe some easier heroic MSV bosses too) they were doing 90-110k dps, not 40k. I've seen players pulling this bad DPS with gear far superior than 496. Most had timeless 535 pieces mixed with ToT normal (VP) and lfr gear.

  17. #137
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    The Frozen Wasteland
    Posts
    2,573
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    The reason why LFR is so awful right now is because the 4-5 people who carried in each ToT run are no longer queuing. Heroic raiders this tier have absolutely (or little) reason to queue and others have just started doing flex because of how awful an experience LFR can be.
    These "carriers" are a myth. I very rarely saw anyone in full normal gear at any point in ToT LFR let alone someone with a piece or two of heroic gear.

    There would typically be 1-2 DPS with some normal and valor gear doing much higher DPS than the rest of the group, and as far as "carrying" goes, that was it.

    LFR hasn't "lost" the people who were "carrying" it. It never had them. The only difference is that the 2nd wing of LFR is tuned funny, excessive boss health drags out the encounters pointlessly, and there is too damn much trash.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgarlaw View Post
    Then kindly explain why it has never been THIS bad up until the Clueless Isle came along.
    The timeless isle has nothing to do with it. Now the better players can do Flex instead of LFR so they don't carry the LFR groups anymore. What you are seeing is just the higher concentration of regular LFR players.
    Shahad , Kevkul , Shaithan
    <Magdalena's pet>

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    These "carriers" are a myth. I very rarely saw anyone in full normal gear at any point in ToT LFR let alone someone with a piece or two of heroic gear.

    There would typically be 1-2 DPS with some normal and valor gear doing much higher DPS than the rest of the group, and as far as "carrying" goes, that was it.

    LFR hasn't "lost" the people who were "carrying" it. It never had them. The only difference is that the 2nd wing of LFR is tuned funny, excessive boss health drags out the encounters pointlessly, and there is too damn much trash.
    I've seen em often enough (myself being one of em, since i needed the damn ring off primo till 2nd to last week of ToT)

  20. #140
    Warchief Packers01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    2,238
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    It HAS been this bad before. However, there have never been two bosses as difficult (by LFR standards) back to back as Shamans and Nazgrim, preceded by another slow fight (Galakras).

    No one in his right mind in LFR is going to be flasked or fully optimized, especially if he's playing four or eight different alts. It's perfectly easy to explain people doing 50-60k in 496 gear on new encounters involving a lot of movement in so-so gear with no idea where the tank is going to go, et cetera. That's the DPS you do in that gear under those circumstances if you are actually trying a little.
    Nazgrim is only as hard as the raid makes it. If you suck that boss gets harder, if you can breath on your own and cross the street you should one shot this boss. Honestly you STOP dps, thats it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •