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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post


    Not even sarcastic about it.
    Two attempts in he says "Im not explaining it anymore. Either figure it out or watch a video. You should know this".


    - - - Updated - - -

    Most of the members who have been here a long time actually do like him. GM included.
    I like him and have not even met him. How many times SHOULD you be required to explain a fight? Even a brand new recruit to the guild or raid team should have shown the initiative to research upcoming boss fights and have a general grasp of what will be expected.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    I like him and have not even met him. How many times SHOULD you be required to explain a fight? Even a brand new recruit to the guild or raid team should have shown the initiative to research upcoming boss fights and have a general grasp of what will be expected.
    Especially*... not even, especially! If you just joined a guild shouldn't you prove that you are good enough for them or even better than some of their current members?
    It's like going to a soccer team and when you are on the field, you don't move... you just kick the ball if it gets to you.

  3. #83
    Stood in the Fire
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    Try talking to him about it, and talk to the rest of the officers about it.

    If things do not change with him, make an ultimatum, either they kick him, or you will find a new guild.

    I've been officer in different guilds since vanilla, and I've seen so many people like the one you mention here, he may be a decent player, but he is dragging you down, and is not someone worth keeping

  4. #84
    Brewmaster Outofmana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    I like him and have not even met him. How many times SHOULD you be required to explain a fight? Even a brand new recruit to the guild or raid team should have shown the initiative to research upcoming boss fights and have a general grasp of what will be expected.
    If you start whining after 2 tries in a normal casual guild your expectations are way too high. Was the OPs guild maybe better in the past and is that raider still living in it? (in vanilla e.g.?).
    When I came from a topguild in vanilla/tbc and made a new 10man guild with irl friends in Cata, I was kinda like the raider the OP described, overly sarcastic, high horse, whiny after wipes (They simply weren't cut out for any hardcore raiding, we wiped for days on Mawmaw normal for example), even my IRL friends started to hate me. I then just made a 360 and accepted I wasn't with the top anymore and just kept my mouth shut, gave up the GM spot and just went regular raider, took our progression for granted because I raided for fun with friends now a few days in the week instead of 24/7, I couldn't expect insane progress. I know have fun in a 25man-normal guild for 2 days a week, but I still need to pay attention that I don't sound overly condensending to other raiders sometimes, that still creeps in. Sounds like the OPs example hasn't made this switch yet.

  5. #85
    This thread just smacks of bullshit.

    That's an awful lot of people to chase away in such a short time. You also do an amazing job of recruiting people to a pretty average guild. You're messages in trade must be something to behold. "xxx are recruiting out 10th healer this expac because another one got chased away, /w me for details!"

    I don't believe we have the whole story.

  6. #86
    I'd say boot the guy, but the OP didn't really describe why people leave because of him. I mean there's got to be some sort of reason, right?

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    My guild is currently 10/14N SoO. This is good compared to our luck the last two tiers. However, we have had a recurring problem with a veteran member of the guild. First, a bit of background. We started this expansion a few short. Raiders who didn't come back for what ever reason. This lead us to having to recruit a tank, and two healers. I got promoted to officer and got to recruiting. Now, the problem should have been fixed. Sadly, it didn't. Each time we recruit a new healer, within a month, this veteran raiders attitude chases them away. He has also managed to chase away every tank ive gotten. In total, we have gone through five tanks, 3-4dps, and over 10 healers, all because they can't stand this guy.

    I am at a loss as to what to do. Even a good friend of mine who came from a hard core guild where an officer raged himself into the ER couldn't handle this guys attitude. He doesn't scream, he doesn't yell. Its literally just him. He has been here since before I was even in the guild. We have even had officers leave because of him.

    Its getting to the point where I simply can't keep up. I get someone, he loses them. The last healer was within two days! Is there anything I can do? He has been here much longer then I, so I fear there is literally nothing I can do to get this to at least lessen. Im now having to deal with an OT who is lacking raid awareness or tanking capabilities so badly just so we can raid. Still don't have another healer. I don't think we can get very many more healers.
    We had a DPS we carried all through LK the first two raids in Cata. He was so bad, we were basically 9 manning all the content. He would die in the first minute of the fight, to things I didn't even know you could die to. The reason we carried him for so long was because he was a family friend of the raid/guild leader. Well when he handed over raid leading to on of the officers, the first thing he did was talk to him and say that if he can't work his stuff out, we would have to kick him from the group. It is amazing how much faster we progressed with that extra DPS spot being opened for someone contributing. Point of the story is, if there is one person holding a raid back and isn't getting any better, you best just drop him and move on. A good portion of people only have time to play on that set schedule anyhow, and having to get new raiders every week who have to learn your strats and possibly new boss fights is just a waste of everyone's time.

  8. #88
    Deleted
    Let me state my conclusion first:

    Leave this guild.

    Now the reasons as far as I'm able to understand ur posts. U have been made an officer to solve the problem of recruiting. At the same time u have been informed that u cant solve what u perceive to be the big problem. This means ur not really an officer for the guild, ur just a workhorse to fuel the raiding. The gm and other officers dont want to handle the dps guy. Maybe they even find him useful/amusing, as long as they dont have to recruit. So this makes u...?

    The recruits will not think of the gm as the bad guy nor the other officers, its the big ego dps and....u. Since u recruited them to this mess.

    So forget about ur "position" as an officer and bail out fast. The longer u stay as an officer in this guild, the worse you'll look for other guilds and the risk is former recruits will dislike u also.

  9. #89
    Look at everything else he has done.
    He has held back your guilds progression (constantly having to recruit for more people)
    Controlled your guilds progression (brings in his shit dps friend and defends him)
    Drove away any and all new raiding atmospheres (new people offer new experiences and insight)
    has literally been the ball and chain for your guild (he's been acting this way for years)

    Now let's look at the plus side of what he has done.
    Sounds like his attendance is pretty good (or else how could he make so many hate him)
    Can probably successfully tank bosses in a guild that's not even 14/14 regular (my 515 prot warr is 3/14heroic)

    So, get everyone who holds some value in your guild, go over the pros' and con's and ALL agree on a course of action.
    Kick him, recruit a new tank, or have someone back up tank while you recruit a new one in the meantime.

    Establish a raid leader, and a new guild "voice" because if he's been a tumor in your guild for that long, when he's removed there will still be a large void that the rest of your raiders are going to have to get used to now, so might as well make it a positive one.
    And reinforce to your raiders that you appreciate them. I know it sounds weird but think about it.. You have people tirelessly throughout the week have to deal with bad pugs, bad players, or whatever else just to keep their raiding toons current in repair money, optimizing new gear they may have, etc etc.. Everyone is there for a reason, so at this point everyone in your guild probably thinks of raiding with you as more of a job than a hobby and probably hates the majority of the time you spend actually raiding. So even if you sit someone, or are actually optimizing your group to get 14/14 and some "core" raiders may have to sit just to get your guild a garrosh kill, it's more likely you'll have others follow suit unless you reinforce a positive atmosphere.

  10. #90
    You lost 15 players because of one. The solution comes to mind itself.

  11. #91
    Deleted
    Grow a pair buddy. You need to confront him and tell him exactly how it is or else everyone in the guild is gonna have a vote if you are gonna kick him out or else he has to change.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    My guild is currently 10/14N SoO. This is good compared to our luck the last two tiers. However, we have had a recurring problem with a veteran member of the guild. First, a bit of background. We started this expansion a few short. Raiders who didn't come back for what ever reason. This lead us to having to recruit a tank, and two healers. I got promoted to officer and got to recruiting. Now, the problem should have been fixed. Sadly, it didn't. Each time we recruit a new healer, within a month, this veteran raiders attitude chases them away. He has also managed to chase away every tank ive gotten. In total, we have gone through five tanks, 3-4dps, and over 10 healers, all because they can't stand this guy.

    I am at a loss as to what to do. Even a good friend of mine who came from a hard core guild where an officer raged himself into the ER couldn't handle this guys attitude. He doesn't scream, he doesn't yell. Its literally just him. He has been here since before I was even in the guild. We have even had officers leave because of him.

    Its getting to the point where I simply can't keep up. I get someone, he loses them. The last healer was within two days! Is there anything I can do? He has been here much longer then I, so I fear there is literally nothing I can do to get this to at least lessen. Im now having to deal with an OT who is lacking raid awareness or tanking capabilities so badly just so we can raid. Still don't have another healer. I don't think we can get very many more healers.
    Wait, aren't you the person who was also angry about your GM's DPS and their unwillingness to change? I believe you also posted another issue with this same raid group (sorry but your avatar is hard to forget).

    I'll give you the same advice I gave before: This guild is not a good match for you. You want to be in a more professional, progression oriented guild that holds performance above tenure (e.g., not a casual guild). Your current guild is too casual for you, and you don't like the atmosphere there.

    I again advise you to find a new guild that will be to your liking and meets your needs. It's time to move on, despite whatever "investment" you've made in this guild (because it's "good money after bad" at this point).

    I'm not sure what the holdup on your end is, but that seems like the area where you actually need some help.

    What is preventing you from leaving?
    "I don't always play my warlock, but when I do, I prefer destruction."
    - The Most Interesting Player in the World . . . of Warcraft

  13. #93
    You've stated your case to the others, saying he needs to go, and they didn't listen. So you have a toddler, his enablers, and a GM who doesn't care enough to put forth any effort to the game. It's not one problem, it's just not a good guild. Move on, and don't look back. Take the good people with you if you can.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    Because the OP is Zantos. Most of his Threads and Posts are either made in such a way that they seem borderline trolling or not even close to what reality would have you believe is real.

    I can't really understand how he's not banned here. He's complaining about most people in his guild for about 1 year now... that they are doing X and Y wrong even tho most of the time is just bullshit.

    INFRACTED: Please do not call others trolls or insinuate that they are trolling. If you feel a thread is breaking the rules please report it. -Nobleshield
    yeah. complaining about guild members is not a bannable offense. look at nobleshield he is now a mod after how many negative posts about his old guild.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Outofmana View Post
    If you start whining after 2 tries in a normal casual guild your expectations are way too high. Was the OPs guild maybe better in the past and is that raider still living in it? (in vanilla e.g.?).
    When I came from a topguild in vanilla/tbc and made a new 10man guild with irl friends in Cata, I was kinda like the raider the OP described, overly sarcastic, high horse, whiny after wipes (They simply weren't cut out for any hardcore raiding, we wiped for days on Mawmaw normal for example), even my IRL friends started to hate me. I then just made a 360 and accepted I wasn't with the top anymore and just kept my mouth shut, gave up the GM spot and just went regular raider, took our progression for granted because I raided for fun with friends now a few days in the week instead of 24/7, I couldn't expect insane progress. I know have fun in a 25man-normal guild for 2 days a week, but I still need to pay attention that I don't sound overly condensending to other raiders sometimes, that still creeps in. Sounds like the OPs example hasn't made this switch yet.

    I looked through the Op's posts and not once saw the word whine. That seems to be a character judgement that you are making based on a player who does not want to run with other's who are not meeting the raid goals in a timely manner.

    It looks like the only one who has actually whined is the OP.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  15. #95
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Let's get back on topic, people, please. No potshots at moderators or complaining about the OP. If you're not going to post any constructive advice, don't post at all.

  16. #96
    Immortal Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Kick him or confront him. If this player can't come to terms with your expected level of progression as a group then he should another guild that fits his needs.

  17. #97
    Deleted
    I've had such a person in my guild before, he's no longer a member. As the co. GM and co. founder of my guild, this is something you'll have to deal with.

    A few things:

    1. You have to talk to your GM about how this one person is affecting the whole atmosphere, making it hard for you to keep recruits. If he doesn't agree, let him deal with the recruitment part and ask to go back to being a raider.

    2. He sounds like he's better than the majority of your raiders and from that PoV, he's probably frustrated by bad players being let in the guild. You need to have a discussion about what sort of guild you are/want to be. If you want better raiders, you might have to start from scratch with a new roster. If you're happy being where you are, this one person has to be told, that his attitude will not be tolerated.

    3. People who "chase" others away like that, being rude, non constructive and generally just jerks, will kill your guild. Doesn't matter how good they are, they will eventually break the guild.

    If you can't talk some sense into your GM or the other officers, I suggest that you leave. I too remember you posting about other guildies before and I have to ask, what you are still doing in that guild? Cause if I were to be a bit cynical, I'd ask if the problem has always been the others, or if the problem is you. On the other hand, you might just be a bit unlucky with the people in your guild and in that case, I'd consider leaving straight away.

  18. #98
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    I don't mean to be harsh, but the solutions to this were obvious from the get go. You either kick him (from the raid or the guild, depending) or you leave. If you cannot or will not do one or the other why post - you KNOW what to do, so either do it or not, but quit making excuses and prevaricating. Given that you posted you might not renew WoW, I'm again at a loss as to why a) you posted or b) we should care.

    PS: I'm with others that much of what you've relayed about his behavior doesn't jibe with 15+ people leaving. Unless he's much worse than this or you're recruiting very sensitive people, something doesn't pass the smell test here. In any event, the solution is obvious, you just need to man up and do it.
    Last edited by clevin; 2013-10-14 at 07:28 PM.

  19. #99
    Good luck getting anywhere with this guy. You have 3 options here.

    1.Do nothing about it and never get a solid raid team resulting extremely slow raid progression.

    2. /gquit and find a new guild.

    3.Kick him.

  20. #100
    If he's really that bad then he should of been kicked a long time ago. At the same time most people have thin skin and get their feelings hurt too easily. It's also likely he isn't even that good. He may have been there a long time, though that seems irrelevant if he's driven off all the old and new blood.
    Stay salty my friends.

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