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  1. #141
    Decent dps for normals are a dime a dozen. He isnt worth the hassle of continuously losing tanks and healers. Boot him.

  2. #142
    Dreadlord sugarlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcaneshot View Post
    <snip>

    Frankly if it was "that guy" who was causing all the problems it takes a very tolerant GM to not notice.
    Well you obviously haven't been in that type of guild. Believe me, there are & always have been plenty of them out there, past, present & future. GMs that have family, buddies or their GFs in guild will seem blind & blissfully unaware of some of the most ridiculous shit which in turn enables & even encourages ass-hattery to flourish. It often leads to the 'inner circle syndrome' & chases away most players, whether they are decent @ the game or not, causing eventual guild implosions, drama bombs or guilds that experience gquits 'suddenly', en masse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skillslam View Post
    When did TOXIC become the latest buzzword here and the official forums.

    Anyway, from how mildly you're describing it, it sounds like your guild is a bunch of pussies with overinflated egos bigger than his that can't handle accepting when they mess up.
    "Toxic" makes sense when it points to a condition or situation that leads to the decomposition & break down of any guild(s). Every single person in the guild either contributes or contaminates, simple as that.

    No matter who you want to call pussies or babies or any other derogatory slam, this particular guy calling everyone out in passive aggressive, snide, stick up his ass ways isn't working for this guild or they wouldn't be losing so many recruits or needing to replace ppl so often.

    Having a spine is great! But remember, spines DO bend and move. They aren't rigid. Don't confuse having an iron rod stuck up your ass with having a spine.

    and again~

    When ppl show you who they are, believe them the 1st time.

    Tolerated behavior doesn't change.

    We teach ppl how to treat us.

    We get what we settle for.
    How's a sesame seed stick to a bun? That's fuckin' magical! There's got to be some sesame seed glue out there! Either that, or they're adhesive on one side. "Take the sesame seed out, remove the backing, place it on the bun. Now your bun will look spectacular." What does a sesame seed grow into? I don't know, we never gave them a chance! What the fuck is a sesame? It's a street...it's a way to open shit!

  3. #143
    Scarab Lord Volitar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Keep him. Keep him in the guild then create a new guild without him -- hell, invite all the other players he's scared off while you're at it -- and when he realizes everybody left the current guild because he's a vitriolic piece of shit, he'll either think he's the most amazing troll in World of Warcraft, or he'll kill himself. Either way, humanity wins.
    level 25 guilds ain't cheap.. He'd probably just sell the guild and be a douche somewhere else.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by sugarlily View Post
    Well you obviously haven't been in that type of guild.
    I am in "that" type of guild. Every guild is "that" guild. The difference is you're automatically assuming people don't know about it or are unwilling to talk about it.

    The fact the original poster came here asking us what to do instead of asking what his guild leader is going to do means it's already over for him-- he doesn't trust the guild leader to do anything about it, and that means he no longer has interest in the guild. He just doesn't know it yet.
    Last edited by arcaneshot; 2013-10-15 at 07:29 AM.

  5. #145
    The Patient Reserk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterik View Post
    Toxic™
    Burden of knowledge™
    Anti-fun™
    Benched™
    Elo hell™
    Reported™
    Better nerf____™

    I probably missing a lot of them, i haven't played lol in 1 year.
    Better nerf Irelia.

    There is no other champion to place in there.

  6. #146
    Pandaren Monk Akraen's Avatar
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    You have to get rid of him.

    In the past 7 years any time I retained a big attitude problem because of their amazing DPS it hurt us more than it helped.

    It is tough but the bandaid must come off. You won't change this guy.

  7. #147
    Maybe it's just that I'm running on no sleep but I just don't believe OP.

    I'm sorry, but the advice here is obvious and has been since post #2. You either kick this guy, you leave (leaving includes quitting WoW) or you resign yourself it. If the GM just reinvites after a gkick, you are left with two choices - leave or put up with it. This is so blindingly obvious and the supposed offences of the bad egg are so mild in how they're described that this whole thing just doesn't pass the smell test. If someone is so toxic that the drive 15+ people away, you remove them. That's just.. fucking obvious. There's no magic bullet - the options on just stupidly clear.

    Yet, when people point this out over EIGHT PAGES the OP keeps coming up with reasons that a kick can't happen, yet he doesn't leave. Sorry, but this just doesn't feel right - something's fishy here and the description of the bad egg's actions don't help. Maybe the descriptions don't convey his tone or something, but I can't imagine 15+ people leaving over what's been described here.

    Anyway, OP, you know your choices. You knew them before this post. Make a choice.
    Last edited by clevin; 2013-10-15 at 02:11 PM.

  8. #148
    Stood in the Fire Desh's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like the guy is calling out shit players and said shit players can't take the heat. Maybe he could be a little nicer about it but it's not all his problem.

    Main Toon - Hunter (currently an LFR hero). Blue Label - 13/14H (SoO) 25 man.
    YouTube - I post all my gameplay (mainly KH, so far) videos here (mostly boss fights), I am currently running through Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix on Proud Mode. I am aiming to catalogue all boss fights in 1080p HD using PCSX2 to emulate and Fraps to record. Give my videos a watch and some constructive criticism. Thanks.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Im not sure if I would even be allowed to boot him. Hes our top dps, and has been in the guild since it was created in vanilla. My hands are literally tied in that respect.
    If your guild cannot weigh the obvious against a mere DPS ranking, then you're going to deserve what you continue to get.

    Assemble the officers, make your case, see where it goes.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Yet, when people point this out over EIGHT PAGES the OP keeps coming up with reasons that a kick can't happen, yet he doesn't leave. Sorry, but this just doesn't feel right - something's fishy here and the description of the bad egg's actions don't help. Maybe the descriptions don't convey his tone or something, but I can't imagine 15+ people leaving over what's been described here.

    Anyway, OP, you know your choices. You knew them before this post. Make a choice.
    Yeah but its hard leaving in-game friends just because of one douche. In my old guild we had one slacker, always bottom dps(sometimes tank did more) but no, couldn't be kicked, RLs boyfriend. Then one day i got pissed enough to finally make the decision to leave and i didn't logged in anymore. I was away over 6 months and the guild had died.

    Recruits are other thing. If you do it in-game, then you don't know how good or bad he is. You only know this after a first raid and vent/ts discussions during it.

    Now i'm member of much better guild with a heroic 25m progression team and casual 10m team. I don't know any of these guys and haven't raided with them yet, in the next expansion maybe. I still has to work and earn my spot in that heroic team and that is not easy task.
    It was a beautiful summer day, and Virtanen and Lahtinen were in a little rowboat in the middle of a lake, fishing. Two hours passed, both men sitting quietly, and then Lahtinen said "Nice weather today." Virtanen grunted and stared intently at his fishing rod. Two more hours passed. Lahtinen said, "Gee, the fish aren't biting today." Virtanen shot back: "That's because you talk too much."

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskymon View Post
    Yeah but its hard leaving in-game friends just because of one douche. ...
    Sure, I get that. But the OP posted ASKING FOR ADVICE. As I said, there's no magic bullet here. You have 3 and only 3 options:

    1) Gkick the guy (or at least kick him from the raid).
    2) Leave the guild
    3) put up with it (and possibly step down from recruiting).

    That's it. 100% super-obvious. It's time for OP to man up, make one of those choices and move on. We don't need another 8 pages hashing over this... be adult, pick one and get on with life.

  12. #152
    It really seems like the OP was very vague when it came to what exactly the 'problem raider' did in order to chase these people out. As a raider, it is impossible to not be sympathetic to somebody who gets pissed off over:

    Raiders who *still* get hit by the iron star on Garrosh
    Raiders who don't pay attention and kite Thok into the raid group
    Raiders who stand in ravager on Nazgrim
    Raiders who run the laser into oil on juggernaut
    Raiders who blow up the raid on Sha

    It seems to me like the problem raider is the one who is really unhappy in the guild he is in, however since he has been in the guild for so long he feels like he cannot leave.
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    There is not a flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. -Howard Zinn
    If trickle down economics is working, it's only because there is a damn leak somewhere! -The One Percent

  13. #153
    As someone who was a guild leader for many years managing guild member cap I have gone through many different types of people including those like you describe. You can see this person's personality as a gift and not a detriment.

    Therefore, the solution is obvious:

    Put him in charge of recruiting.

  14. #154
    Pit Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by betsyross View Post
    As someone who was a guild leader for many years managing guild member cap I have gone through many different types of people including those like you describe. You can see this person's personality as a gift and not a detriment.

    Therefore, the solution is obvious:

    Put him in charge of recruiting.
    One time-honored management technique to get rid of a troublesome/incompetent/difficult-to-remove person is to put him (her) into a position of sole responsibility which is guaranteed to result in failure.

    For example, some years back, at this large electronics company I worked at, there was this vice president who used to show up at noon, walking around the otherwise busy office in an aloha shirt, shorts, and golf shoes. He was inherited as part of an acquisition. Eventually, he was dispatched to Europe to manage the deployment of Office 2000. Of course, it was never going to work, and it destroyed him.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    My guild is currently 10/14N SoO. This is good compared to our luck the last two tiers. However, we have had a recurring problem with a veteran member of the guild. First, a bit of background. We started this expansion a few short. Raiders who didn't come back for what ever reason. This lead us to having to recruit a tank, and two healers. I got promoted to officer and got to recruiting. Now, the problem should have been fixed. Sadly, it didn't. Each time we recruit a new healer, within a month, this veteran raiders attitude chases them away. He has also managed to chase away every tank ive gotten. In total, we have gone through five tanks, 3-4dps, and over 10 healers, all because they can't stand this guy.

    I am at a loss as to what to do. Even a good friend of mine who came from a hard core guild where an officer raged himself into the ER couldn't handle this guys attitude. He doesn't scream, he doesn't yell. Its literally just him. He has been here since before I was even in the guild. We have even had officers leave because of him.

    Its getting to the point where I simply can't keep up. I get someone, he loses them. The last healer was within two days! Is there anything I can do? He has been here much longer then I, so I fear there is literally nothing I can do to get this to at least lessen. Im now having to deal with an OT who is lacking raid awareness or tanking capabilities so badly just so we can raid. Still don't have another healer. I don't think we can get very many more healers.
    Option 1: Replace the guild diva
    Option 2: Find a new guild

    Option 1 is your best bet, but if this really can't be done then you need to question why you're in the guild and if it's worth going on under these circumstances. Or you could just do nothing and stick with the status quo
    Last edited by rated; 2013-10-15 at 08:42 PM.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by rated View Post
    Or you could just do nothing and stick with the status quo
    caveat: should the OP choose to stick with the status quo then he forfeits all right to continue to bitch about his predicament
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulqiorra View Post
    If you equate playing WoW to having electricity, I feel very, very happy for the rest of the world, as that kind of thinking will, inevitably, lead to the eradication of your seed from the gene pool.
    My Toons: Duskwind/Dæmion/Tobirama/Ophanim

  17. #157
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelicat View Post
    That's why people are quitting? I guess I can see why if you are getting average players who play to have "fun" but comments like that are nowhere as bad as I expected. If anyone quits over something like that I wouldn't even care, tbh. Then again I don't know what kind of environment you are striving for so it depends on you guys.

    Back when I was raiding hardcore in WotLK, we had a player who would go to war and talk down anyone who was complete shit we got and just straight up make them hate life. Anytime they fucked up in raid he would not hesitate to make a comment about the fuckup and talk about how we recruited a giant waste of time etc. Now that was what I was imagining but I don't even think he was toxic, he straight up made all the bad players left and for a guild like ours, we needed a bad cop like that.
    No one on earth needs a person like that. Even if you're hardcore. being a gigantic piece of human shit is in no way to be admired and supported. That's just flat out disgusting and anti-human behavior. What's wrong with just saying "You're not a fit for us, leave".? Why would you actively support and encourage otherwise? I can only postulate that you encourage and support treating certain people like human garbage. Bravo! You're a bad person too!

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    My guild is currently 10/14N SoO. This is good compared to our luck the last two tiers. However, we have had a recurring problem with a veteran member of the guild. First, a bit of background. We started this expansion a few short. Raiders who didn't come back for what ever reason. This lead us to having to recruit a tank, and two healers. I got promoted to officer and got to recruiting. Now, the problem should have been fixed. Sadly, it didn't. Each time we recruit a new healer, within a month, this veteran raiders attitude chases them away. He has also managed to chase away every tank ive gotten. In total, we have gone through five tanks, 3-4dps, and over 10 healers, all because they can't stand this guy.

    I am at a loss as to what to do. Even a good friend of mine who came from a hard core guild where an officer raged himself into the ER couldn't handle this guys attitude. He doesn't scream, he doesn't yell. Its literally just him. He has been here since before I was even in the guild. We have even had officers leave because of him.

    Its getting to the point where I simply can't keep up. I get someone, he loses them. The last healer was within two days! Is there anything I can do? He has been here much longer then I, so I fear there is literally nothing I can do to get this to at least lessen. Im now having to deal with an OT who is lacking raid awareness or tanking capabilities so badly just so we can raid. Still don't have another healer. I don't think we can get very many more healers.
    There is a tank on my server who's kind of infamous for being a total ass. We have a low population server on Horde side so there's not a large pool of tanks to recruit from so guild leaders have tried to put up with him. He has destroyed 3 decent raiding guilds by doing what this guy seems to do to your guild.

    It will make recruiting tougher as well. Word spreads and people talk in trade about him when his guild tries to pug new people. My guild has had a decent rivalry/friendly relationship for most of this expansion. We frequently recruit each other's alts to fill in open spots, but since they acquired said bunghole no one will join them if he's there.

    Long story short, one dedicated poor attitude player can destroy your guild's raid team. Have a talk to him about it, if that doesn't work it might be time to cut him.

  19. #159
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    I like him and have not even met him. How many times SHOULD you be required to explain a fight? Even a brand new recruit to the guild or raid team should have shown the initiative to research upcoming boss fights and have a general grasp of what will be expected.
    Of course you'd like him. You're also a military man. Seems you'd get along fine with people that treat people like human sludge.

  20. #160
    Brewmaster catbeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Im not sure if I would even be allowed to boot him. Hes our top dps, and has been in the guild since it was created in vanilla. My hands are literally tied in that respect.
    start a new guild without him.
    cow goes moo

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