Problematic raider. Need advice bad.

[Nayelie]

You are an officer and a tank(?). He is a veteran to the game and the guild, and a dps. You outrank him. You need to take the authority and let him know that the problems are going to stop immediately. You've lost essentially a 10 man team due to him. And the needs of the guild > the needs of one player. He is obviously not helping the guild grow, he is stunting the growth. I say tell him to keep it to himself, or share his gifts with another guild. Dps are easily replaceable. Personalities aren't, but I'm not sure his current charms would be missed.

[Zantos]

I'd like to know what exactly he's doing that is soooo toxic. Is he that sarcastic prick in your raid team? (that was me at some point lol)

He is a bit of a prick. Not even sarcastic about it. He is straight up blunt, and a bit high and mighty about it like it was soo obvious to him. Just the other day we had a new recruit who was learning the fights. Two attempts in he says "Im not explaining it anymore. Either figure it out or watch a video. You should know this". It was a fight we had only killed the week earlier for the first time.

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You are an officer and a tank(?). He is a veteran to the game and the guild, and a dps. You outrank him. You need to take the authority and let him know that the problems are going to stop immediately. You've lost essentially a 10 man team due to him. And the needs of the guild > the needs of one player. He is obviously not helping the guild grow, he is stunting the growth. I say tell him to keep it to himself, or share his gifts with another guild. Dps are easily replaceable. Personalities aren't, but I'm not sure his current charms would be missed.

Most of the members who have been here a long time actually do like him. GM included. Its getting to the point where I will have to leave long before he does. My leaving would impact them in a much more harsh way. I am quite good, and not easily replaced. Or so ive been told by my last gm who removed me then immediately regretted it as soon as he got a new paladin tank.

[Aqua]

Its literally just a case of His personality. From what ive been told, he is rude and generally seems like he is on a high horse. This guy has actually gotten someone to gquit by being polite. He said "would you mind sitting out for this fight?" and the guy left because that was the last straw.

So he's...condescending? Is that it? It's hard to both understand and describe what you're saying I guess, we had a tank a little like that for a while, but he was quickly made redundant and moved on.

If he is a regular member why is he given authority to ask players to 'sit out' or ...do anything for that matter. This screams to me of officers not holding the reigns tight enough so as I said before. Take authority. Length of time in a guild should NOT be an excuse for disrespecting other members, or other members higher ranked than you. Ranks are there for a reason.
I joke around with my officers and guild leaders too, but If they're annoyed with me and want me to do something, you'd better believe for the sake of the guild, raid, and all the atmosphere, I'm gonna do it, silently, without complaint and well. The only time I should EVER say anything about it, is if I have serious concerns and believe the course of action will negatively impact our performance. And if the answer is still the same, I should just get on with it.

This guy is acting way out of line and you either need to leave, or reign him in hard.

You are the officer. Not him. Length of time and buddy buddyness with other guild members is NO excuse. I am a longer time member of my guild than 2 of our officers. I still have to show them respect, and let THEM lead. It is not my place to dictate what is acceptable performance from anyone but myself.

[Deleted]

Have a guild meeting and beat him up (joking, but if you do it, video it!)

[Nayelie]

Sounds like your guild then doesn't make you quite as happy, and you are doing a better job running your guild than the GM. I'd say, consider starting your own guild. You don't even have to create one, check the forums. Lots of guilds are willing to take "experienced " leaders.

[Thunderball]

Ok, example. He says things like "maybe if you pay attention or heal, we will actually get things killed". Or I for example say I figured out something and he says 'Imagine that, avoid the mechanic that hurts you helps keep you alive". Those types of comments.

Looks like your raiders cant tolerate critics. You got two options: let it go and see what happens - basically tell him that you think that he's the reason and you cant do anything for the guild because of him OR just leave right away. By the looks of the situation that you described you dont have much to lose.

[Ryme]

Ok, example. He says things like "maybe if you pay attention or heal, we will actually get things killed". Or I for example say I figured out something and he says 'Imagine that, avoid the mechanic that hurts you helps keep you alive". Those types of comments.

I know this kind of raider, it can be devastating to guilds.

What you need to do is alert him to this behaviour, tell him you believe it to be harming your guild and ask him if he would mind going on a TS/Vent/Mumble ban for a bit to see if things improve - basically, just un-jack his microphone.

[Zantos]

So he's...condescending? Is that it? It's hard to both understand and describe what you're saying I guess, we had a tank a little like that for a while, but he was quickly made redundant and moved on.

If he is a regular member why is he given authority to ask players to 'sit out' or ...do anything for that matter.

He was the raid leader at the time. But threw a fit when the new raid leader called him out on his attitude. So he stopped raid leader and just shut up. He is the kind of guy that when you call him out, goes baby mode and just shuts up all mad. He has a bit of authority because he was an officer as well until the other officers had enough of him.

[brirrspliff]

My leaving would impact them in a much more harsh way. I am quite good, and not easily replaced. Or so ive been told by my last gm who removed me then immediately regretted it as soon as he got a new paladin tank.

that sounds to me like your guild has more "entitled" players than him. :-)

[Angelicat]

Ok, example. He says things like "maybe if you pay attention or heal, we will actually get things killed". Or I for example say I figured out something and he says 'Imagine that, avoid the mechanic that hurts you helps keep you alive". Those types of comments.

That's why people are quitting? I guess I can see why if you are getting average players who play to have "fun" but comments like that are nowhere as bad as I expected. If anyone quits over something like that I wouldn't even care, tbh. Then again I don't know what kind of environment you are striving for so it depends on you guys.

Back when I was raiding hardcore in WotLK, we had a player who would go to war and talk down anyone who was complete shit we got and just straight up make them hate life. Anytime they fucked up in raid he would not hesitate to make a comment about the fuckup and talk about how we recruited a giant waste of time etc. Now that was what I was imagining but I don't even think he was toxic, he straight up made all the bad players left and for a guild like ours, we needed a bad cop like that.

[Zantos]

that sounds to me like your guild has more "entitled" players than him. :-)

Our gm is a bit like that. Only logs on for raids, wont research his class, and does poorly at the moment while not even getting the meta gem.

[Salystra]

I so wish I could do that. Im the only officer that actually bothers to do anything for the guild. The gm shows up to raid, then logs off. Still doesn't have his legendary meta or properly researched his class changes. Most people who have been here for awhile and know him seem to be able to tolerate him. Its just new recruits that leave quickly due to him. Why, idk.

Why bother? Find a new guild that appreciates people who take note and actively look at improving the raid team/themselves. Good luck in finding a new home for YOURSELF and let the others to their own fate.

[Zantos]

That's why people are quitting? I guess I can see why if you are not getting very good players who play to have "fun" but comments like that are nowhere as bad as I expected. If anyone quits over something like that I wouldn't even care, tbh. Then again I don't know what kind of environment you are striving for so it depends on you guys.

You know the willy wonka meme? Imagine he is saying it like that guy. We don't really try for a certain environment that I know of. They just don't like him.

[AeneasBK]

Link this thread in guild chat.

[Deleted]

He is basically ruining all your recruiting work, so you obv. dislike him; while GM and Officers like him... looks like you are in the wrong guild.

What baffles me is: how is even possible to quit a guild just because of one person? The problem is more likely this guy toxic attitude + the rest of the guild's "whatever" attitude.

[Aqua]

He was the raid leader at the time. But threw a fit when the new raid leader called him out on his attitude. So he stopped raid leader and just shut up. He is the kind of guy that when you call him out, goes baby mode and just shuts up all mad. He has a bit of authority because he was an officer as well until the other officers had enough of him.

Right so he's a disgruntled vet. Then ...pony up and lay down how it's gonna be from now on. If he clams up and baby-modes, you need support from other officers, or this guy is going to make your play time miserable.

Think about what I said about the voice chat too. We've muted a warlock and a shaman that we once had as punishment for some irritating behaviour like this in the past, and while the warlock straightened up and flew right, the shaman like your case study, couldn't take it, and gquit.

You have to understand while I am okay with dealing and taking criticism, I expect it to be from those leading, and I expect it to be done politely. I've stated before on this forum that I think alot of people just can't seem to swallow a pill when they're playing awfully and get some offers of advice from more experienced players. HOWEVER this is the other side of the coin. When you're trying to help fellow players, you need to exercise some tact and basic understanding/empathy of their position. This is way over the line and should not be acceptable in a Normal/Heroic raiding environment unless it is the raid leader or officers, giving you talks in private.

The only authority I have in my own raid, is to suggest strategies to my fellow paladin to maximize cooldown utility and discussing with my other melee players on proper courses of action regarding priority, movement and handling certain mechanics.
I DO NOT get to tell (for example) the shadow priest that if he'd just stopped sucking he'd play better after he dies on a 4th attempt consistently. That helps nothing and is a pointless thing to both say, and harmful to raid synergy. If that is what this jackhole is doing, he needs to stop.

You've heard it enough. Actions speak louder than words. Do something.

[prwraith]

1 dps does not a raid team make. Das boot should be given.

[Adoxe]

Why exactly is he still in the guild?

[Zantos]

Why exactly is he still in the guild?

Hes been in since vanilla, as has the gm, who know one another. Pretty much sums it up.

I thank you all for your advice. Im going to have to have a serious talk with him when I see him next. If it doesn't go well, I just won't renew my wow time. Getting tired of WoW anyway, maybe this is the push I need to quit.

[Oogly]

Sounds to me with all your responses that you cant do much about this guy and the fact the other officers and GM wont do anything to this primadonna with a terrible attitude that you need to find yourself another guild rather than bust a gut to try and make this work with arseholes in the guild who cant or wont be held to account for their bad attitude.

Do yourself a favour and find a new guild. That guy sounds like complete immature whiny baby with a terrible attitude and an inferiority/superiority complex. Idiots like that you can do without in your guild. Simply comes down to him stopping (which wont happen) or you leaving (which is your only inevitable option).