1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Hardkorr's Avatar
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    Raiding in WoW might be like bumping uglies!

    I have the title of my post as such not only because it is provocative and eye catching, but because it is also true and the forum rules limits as to how explicit I can be.


    LFRaiders do it for the loot: It seems like the vast majority of LFRaiders do it just for loot which grants satisfaction. Of course, I’m sure most people would also like to bump uglies if it was just as accessible as LFR, but it would only have the satisfaction of getting their reward rather than the journey and build up that makes it truly special.

    Getting gear/killing bosses isn’t an emotional investment: Downing a boss that was difficult and that took a long time (not just hours) to even reach is very satisfying. One friend of mine talked for days on how awesome and rewarding it was to finally down Garrosh (Like that one song from (The Lonely Island”), because it was brag-worthy. However, it seems like LFRaiders only feel a sense of relief because they only want to get their gear and they want the raid to be over with. Have you or anyone you know go on for days talking about how awesome it was to down a boss in LFR?

    It dilutes the community by giving players a sense that it’s ok to just get their gear and doesn’t foster personal relationships or responsibility: Would you ever help someone else like a noob or new guildy get their gear nowadays in order to raid with you and develop a relationship, or would you just queue with a bunch of random strangers for the same effect? Even then, if someone was rude or terrible at it, would/should you care about a random toxic player?

    People feel entitled to do raiding content: Saying you pay as much as the raiders and thus deserve to raid holds as much weight as saying you have certain organs and deserve to do the dirty. In a sense, yes you can and probably should go for it because it is a very unique and generally awesome experience (Don't believe that having something special accessible to everyone makes it less so? Consider how bumping uglies is portrayed in Brave New World). Accessibility waters down the importance of it all and there is no real journey for self-improvement or needing someone you know to share the experience with.

    Hardcore raiders or even regular raiders are more connected than those who just run LFR all day: Yes back in the day, some raid leaders were abusive and there were terrible pugs whose only role was to grief; however the grab and go style of LFR with added anonymity of cross realms only fosters that type of behavior rather than distances players from it. Also, raiding with people you have known and grown with builds a community based on trust and reputation in guilds and realms that show you are competent at playing your class.

    The Climax of an expansion isn’t as exciting: Sure you may down the big bad, but so what? I’m positive that no LFR raider was as excited about downing Garrosh as someone who did even normal Garrosh because there wasn’t as long as a buildup or had as much invested. There are no epic wins in LFR.

    Of course, this is all assuming that raiding is supposed to be considered the feature in WoW that grants a sense of completion, has emotional investment, and builds community. However, if it just another feature of the game that is not supposed to be the crux or climax of the game, and just “something to do in WoW,” then disregard everything I have said.

  2. #2
    ok good job comparing lfr with....sex? i guess? I'm confused

  3. #3
    Field Marshal
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    Generally I agree with most of your points, but they've all been made one way or another. The question is what do we do about it? And what makes it not feasible? i.e what caused the current shift to accessible and easily end-game content? Was it necessary or just a slip-up? etc.

  4. #4
    what's wrong with accessible content?

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans
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    Let's assume the people in LFR are there because they enjoy it, or perhaps because they are allowing someone else to tell them to be there, and in some way enjoying that.

    Now, why does anything that you said matter?

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Christan's Avatar
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    who said people enjoy LFR? even to a fraction of how much they enjoy having sex?
    and heroic raiding...sense of accomplishment
    versus the other, where you get a climatic sense of satisfaction...

    not entirely sure where your post was leading...but if by bumping uglies you meant sex...then it's not comparable at all for people who have had sex..

    maybe a drunken one night stand(even that is seriously seriously stretching it)
    but meaningful sex with a partner? not even comparable in the slightest.


    real life comparisons i'd make...

    LFR = taking medicine...something you don't like to do at all, but is needed for you to get better...both leave that nasty taste in your mouth (a good pug lfr group is like cherry cough syrup vs that green death flavor...from a bad pug)

    reg raiding = a good day at work

    heroic raiding = you finally cracked that problem, made that innovation at work, that gets you recognized and promoted, real sense of accomplishment, something that gives a no-drugs type of high.

    bumping uglies... = euphoric no-drugs high pure "limited duration" bliss....nothing in game has ever come close to it

    felt like i had to give comparisons...instead of just stating how i feel
    Last edited by Christan; 2013-10-15 at 04:20 AM.
    Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Hardkorr's Avatar
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    I will have to bring up another analogy, if you do not mind, to address your specific concern.

    I firmly believe that the people who consistently do LFR actually do enjoy it. However it is to a degree that I find to be far from it's full potential of player enjoyment. If you are a LoL player, I hope you understand the comparison when I say it is like the difference between playing against bots with solo queue vs playing against people with a pre-made. I say this because when you play a challenging game with people you know, there is a chance for epic moments, victory is usually a difficult feat, you build friendships with pre-mades, you become a better player through coordination, and it requires a fairly high level of skill. Playing against bots and LFR has virtually none of these things.

    So yea, lots of people enjoy LFR, but it does not make the player, the community, and the experience better. As an assumed high point of the game, these kinds of raids makes these aspects of WoW worse.

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans Christan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardkorr View Post
    I will have to bring up another analogy, if you do not mind, to address your specific concern.

    I firmly believe that the people who consistently do LFR actually do enjoy it.
    aside from the other stuff...is it possible people who actually enjoy LFR
    are in fact masochists?
    sadist here, i need people who enjoy LFR
    Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire Hardkorr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christan View Post
    aside from the other stuff...is it possible people who actually enjoy LFR
    are in fact masochists?
    sadist here, i need people who enjoy LFR
    It's totally possible. The few times I did LFR, I felt facerolling wasn't enough so I repeatedly smashed my head on my keyboard instead and still did "decent" dps. Now it is my fetish.

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