Recent Simcraft Fix for TotH

[Effinhunter]

For those of you who might have missed it, the hunter module in Simcraft was overreporting dps from TotH by double-dipping focus gains. The module would reduce the cost of AS and add the focus back after usage, which is not the way TotH works. Consequently, MM and SV results were overvalued.

You can read more about the change here:

http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t130382-...5/#post2334224

Also, you can see updated BiS runs with each spec and dps talent option here (click "Spoiler"):

http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t130382-...4/#post2333642

The result is that SV was overvalued on single target, and is now simming significantly less than BM in similar gear at end game. Delta is around 7k right now.

[Deleted]

Glad it's fixed, but the results aren't very surprising to me. What does surprise me is how far below Survival with Thrill of the Hunt is compared to Dire Beast and Fervor. I knew it would be worse compared to what it's been simming before but not by this much. Not that it matters much, I generally only play Survival in fights where I Multi-shot often anyway.

Off-topic but you forgot to enchant your rings. It seems like you've had them for a few days so I guess you simply forgot about them.

[Cyrops]

Sigh, whatever I try toth just sims for more dps :X

[Saurox]

Is the fix something we manually need to apply or is SimCraft fixed in the latest version?

[Deleted]

Is this 540-4?
If so, SV with AMoC/ToTH is still significantly ahead for me (with Haromm)

[Deleted]

Is this 540-4?
If so, SV with AMoC/ToTH is still significantly ahead for me (with Haromm)

the fix has been worked by lokrick who is the one that develops the hunter module, so he posted his internal numbers. But the fix has not been implemented yet in the package, maybe next build.


TBH now ToTH is not that far below, just 2k DPS less than DB or fervor. The thing is that it was incredibly inflated prior to the fix. Now it is where it should be, pretty equal to the others and still a very good option in many encounters. The problem here is all the SV hype due to the sims showing it too high, combined with the 4 piece bonus which led to believe that it was the supreme ST spec, which is not.

[Deleted]

I think they need to look at the marksman sim aswell because it says I should be doing around 277k dps with my 560 item level and every buff but I always do 300k and over single target.

[Deleted]

I think they need to look at the marksman sim aswell because it says I should be doing around 277k dps with my 560 item level and every buff but I always do 300k and over single target.

I'm not sure you fully understand how sims work >.<

[Deleted]

I'm not sure you fully understand how sims work >.<

Well the sim is saying I can reach 277k max dps with that spec but I'm doing on average 30k more dps so the sim must be doing something wrong.

[Deleted]

Well the sim is saying I can reach 277k max dps with that spec but I'm doing on average 30k more dps so the sim must be doing something wrong.

by default the sims are set to a lot longer fight time than real fights where you can reach those numbers, also the sims can't take into account lucky procc streaks, etc. You need to fine-tune the sim parameters to obtain a more realistic number. Sims by default will give results that are way lower than the ones you get after spending some time tuning it. And last but not least sims are programmed by humans, ergo they are bound to be flawed.

[Thursley]

What gear was actually being used ("At end game" is not particularly descriptive) and was this happening in the femaledwarf sims too? On FD I'm (still) showing survival to be ahead by a small amount, after testing various talent combinations and fight lengths; 565 ilvl with 574 weapon.

[Zeherah]

The ToTH bug does not affect femaledwarf.

Until the latest release of simc is out, if you really want to get the version with the ToTH fix you can download the source and compile.

With regards to MM, the simc default profile for it could probably stand to be optimized somewhat, it's harder to sim MM accurately than the other specs without tweaking it just so.

[Deleted]

What gear was actually being used ("At end game" is not particularly descriptive) and was this happening in the femaledwarf sims too? On FD I'm (still) showing survival to be ahead by a small amount, after testing various talent combinations and fight lengths; 565 ilvl with 574 weapon.

in my gear 565ilvl (heroic bow) BM is ahead by 1,4k dps. But i dont have Haromm. Do you?

[shanattah]

Lokricks sims are only 5K itterations so those numbers could swing with more itterations is what I'm thinking

[Barrowwind]

so is ToTH still better than Fever/direbeast?

[osa]

TBH now ToTH is not that far below, just 2k DPS less than DB or fervor. The thing is that it was incredibly inflated prior to the fix. Now it is where it should be, pretty equal to the others and still a very good option in many encounters. The problem here is all the SV hype due to the sims showing it too high, combined with the 4 piece bonus which led to believe that it was the supreme ST spec, which is not.

Don't know where did you see that difference. According to simcraft author's post, ToTH is 7k dps less than DB for SV and 16k dps less for BM in BiS gear:
418,347 SV 211 - DB,MC,GT
411,072 SV 311 - ToTH,MC,GT
425,393 bm 211 - DB,MC,GT
409,242 bm 311 - ToTH,MC,GT

[Thursley]

in my gear 565ilvl (heroic bow) BM is ahead by 1,4k dps. But i dont have Haromm. Do you?

I do have Haromm's talisman (and assurance of consequence), yes.

For what it's worth I was curious about how big a difference it would be for beast mastery to use haromm's talisman instead of the ticking ebon detonator (which I don't have) so I tested in FD, with the TED reforged to crit, and it found TED was only a few hundred DPS better, which was surprising since roughly 45% of my total damage is from pets as BM compared to 13% as survival.

[Deleted]

Don't know where did you see that difference. According to simcraft author's post, ToTH is 7k dps less than DB for SV and 16k dps less for BM in BiS gear:
418,347 SV 211 - DB,MC,GT
411,072 SV 311 - ToTH,MC,GT
425,393 bm 211 - DB,MC,GT
409,242 bm 311 - ToTH,MC,GT

You are right, Sir. I was on the phone reading it and thought that the talents were coded as Simc does, 0,1,2 instead of 1,2,3.

[Effinhunter]

I do have Haromm's talisman (and assurance of consequence), yes.

For what it's worth I was curious about how big a difference it would be for beast mastery to use haromm's talisman instead of the ticking ebon detonator (which I don't have) so I tested in FD, with the TED reforged to crit, and it found TED was only a few hundred DPS better, which was surprising since roughly 45% of my total damage is from pets as BM compared to 13% as survival.

Those are my conclusions with Haromm's versus TED as well. I still maintain FD simulations of Haromm's versus TED on the BM guide, which includes breakdowns of SV and MM.

And you can see the discussion on Haromm's versus TED here and the follow up here. Anyway, the point is that you're right and if given the choice of Haromm's versus TED, Haromm's is much better for people switching between SV and BM.


Also, @Bovan, yeah, yeah, I fixed it .

[Perrito]

Those are my conclusions with Haromm's versus TED as well. I still maintain FD simulations of Haromm's versus TED on the BM guide, which includes breakdowns of SV and MM.

And you can see the discussion on Haromm's versus TED here and the follow up here. Anyway, the point is that you're right and if given the choice of Haromm's versus TED, Haromm's is much better for people switching between SV and BM.


Also, @Bovan, yeah, yeah, I fixed it .

i find TED just good for openers where you can predit the results, since they are both RPPM i will say they about equal with the huge diference in haromms proc wont diminish with time and even if you dont react fast enough or just burn out all your cds you still can make use of it while TED you cant.

i still dont know why they demolish so hard RPPM trinkets, i think the old model was good, you want them reliable, stack haste, you want to gamble with the proc stack w/e stat is the best for you. i think the biggest change that hurt RPPM was also going from 20 sec procs to 10 sec procs. you just dont get chance to react.

i wish they would introduce again on use trinkets that are actually good instead of being non existance and have to deal with RPPM and ICD (wich are not reliable as you may think).

also seem they made trinkets to not match eachother proc times. annoying none the less.

missing old BM opener with readiness. tbh was the only fun thing about bm this xpac.