Restro Druid Mana Problems

[TheSego]

I am trying to help out a friend with her mana problems and I can't figure out why she is running out of mana so fast during our 25m. Could anyone give me some tips to give to her to help with her mana problems.

Here is her armory http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Xrikzi/simple
and logs http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...ge5/details/5/

[Caprisonne]

Provide logs and armory please

[ryklin]

link their armory (do they have the legendary meta? that helps a TON as its about 8 free rejuvs every minute)
if you have logs they'll help people out here a ton (can see when she did what at any given time?
without those nobody here will know, but here are some guesses

how much spirit are they rolling versus throughput stats?

are they using more efficient spells like Wild growth on cooldown as well as using their free regrowth procs?

are they taking advantage of mushroom's mana effiency and the new glyph for it?

are they using a trinket with mana regeneration?

are they using their active mana regen (innervate and possibly trinkets) as early as possible so the cooldown comes back earlier?

we have like 2 spells that aren't mana efficient, is she using healing touch or regrowth a disproportionate amount?

is she using genesis when she doesnt need to? it's ok on 10man, but a lot weaker in 25s where theres more people to throw heals that will save peoples lives and druids can focus on just putting out a good amount of healing and winning meters getting people topped off

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well 1 thing is her haste is just shy of an extra tick of WG and she doesn't have the legendary meta-gem yet which will help her A LOT once she gets it

she could try going for it (6652), but I think most people would recommend staying at just over 3043 and putting those stats elsewhere

she could probably use nourish less on some attempts, it has pretty shitty healing per mana and although it does have it's time to be used, usually just bloom and swiftmend cover keeping her mastery active (which she could have a bit of a higher uptime on, it may just be because of when the log starts on some of the fights being before there's actually healing to be done) (it can also be done by having her use her omen of clarity procs, because she doesn't healing touch or regrowth enough to be using them)

usually 30% rejuv overhealing wouldn't be too bad, especially w/ the current shroom format (resto shrooms absorb our rejuv overheals and then burst them out) but almost all of her blooms were overhealing on some attempts (nvm, the shroom overhealing reduces as your attempts go on)

and I see her getting 2 innervates in per fight on norushen and 1 on others so she should think about the enrage timer and pop the first one at around 2:30 even if she has fairly good mana at the time (or she'd been using innervate while inside the purifying realm which is odd since w/ how slow she does it she should be at almost full mana by the time she's out)

another thing I would recommend is that you have her keep using her horridon's last gasp she was using on those fights you linked on fights where she is having mana problems because she has one and even norushen which is a mostly stacked fight in a 25man raid the cleave was mostly overheals (as a 10man healer I'm kinda surprised by this)

another note is that she doesn't actually seem to use tree of life as much as she could, and she could also use it to put out a more mana efficient blanket of lifeblooms and instant regrowths alongside stacking the lifeblooms before they expire of could just look into the Soul of the Forest talent, which is incredible this patch
and she has enough haste atm to make treants works if she wants too (treants don't scale w/ mastery which is the main stat of many druids)

she's also kind of slow in the norushen challenge for, especially for normal mode, I'd recommend going cat form after throwing down a few heals and having her kill the boss inside because for some reason druids can cast dispels in cat form and a lot of pve droods don't know it

I don't really have any complaints about your kills, my overall guess is that she just panics and thinks she really needs rejuv on the whole raid like right on the pull or something like this is ICC, she just needs to be using her efficient heals whenever possible backing off if she needs to save mana sometimes especially if it's just light raid dmg and nobody is likely to die

also I'd recommend she take nature's vigil if she's not actually using HoTW and/or get her in the habit of changing talents and glyphs for different fights as that's a must for current raiding (w/ the speed at which she gets out of the trial, I assume she's not even using it to kill the mob)

now onto Sha of Pride stuff:
she actually used HotW here so that's an improvement, but I mean normal sha of pride isn't exactly a good fight for judging healing considering there isn't any to be done and she seems to dispel when she has the buff

on a side note: your raid is awful at stepping out of self reflection


but yah overall she seems to just throw too many rejuvs and nourishes which despite being more mana efficient than our other spells w/o cooldowns, are being used w/o need at times when she doesn't quite need them up due to the dmg being light and random smart healing taking care of most stuff in 25man

honestly a lot of good healers do things similar to what she was doing on progression anyways (burning all their mana to make sure people get as much practice onto a boss as possible in a pull before it turns into a wipe)

I expected a bigger issue than what you linked (I thought she'd have been a major issue in the wipes, instead it was people being dumb and maybe 1 wipe on sha that was the healers being bad and the rest was people being dumb and not knowing how to manage norushen), she did well on meters too, just try and get her that legendary meta-gem, get her moving talents and glyphs around for different fights, and get something changed gem/reforge-wise about her haste and turn it into some mastery

btw lol at her getting 3 pieces of loot off of sha

[theburned]

can we get some logs that doesnt 404?

Also she can reforge down to the cap above 3k haste, will increase throughput from mastery and decrease mana useage due to slower casting, and haste is useless until you can reach the 13k haste cap. 6.6k breakpoint is not very good, it's better than nothing, but it is nothing you should aim for. as long as you get close to 3k it's better to go for mastery.

her spirit is very good considering her gear. Also miss gemmed shoulders.

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/stormrage/xrikzi
use the optimized button, also I would suggest a purified gem in shoulders over the full spirit 220 spirit + 80 int > 320 spirit

adds 1k spirit so quite good. and 7% mastery, it ends up being quite a lot.

[Deleted]

I don't have much time so i will look only her armory
she has 6468 haste and she should be at 3043 or 13163 wich are the important druid haste breakpoints, so she should stay at one of these BP and then stack mastery, so she can reforge out some haste to mastery
she doesn't have gems on her chest and should change gems to mastery+int for red, mastery for yellow and spirit+mastery for blue, or if she needs a loot of spirit then mastery+spirit on yellow too.
she doesn't have enchat on her chest.

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can we get some links that doesnt 404?

I just searched her name on the armory and founded her but the links didnt work for me neither

[TheSego]

Thank you for all the help I will let her know and help her with it. I'm the guild's restro shammy and it's just weird to see other classes run out of mana like that. Thank the WoW gods for my man shield

She was so happy when she got all that loot from Sha

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Links should work now

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She just got the chest, neck and trinket last night she will be doing all that stuff today

[theburned]

Will focus mainly on norushen as sha of pride does not tell too much about stuff, it is mostly dead time, and if she goes oom there, well yeah i don't know what to say.

First of all more strategic placing of efflorence is very important, she is using her bloom a good amount which is good both for mana and throughput.
On fights like these where its constant damage soul of the forest will easily outperform incarnation. on sha of pride the incarnation is a choice, I still stick with soul of the forest, never seen any good use for force of nature.
Which leads her to cast very few swiftmends, incredibly cheap spell, which boosts your wild growth, while also casting wildgrowth on cd, without using the glyph.
this seems to be where the mana drain comes, comparing to a log of me on the same fight slightly shorter though, my wild growth heals 2700 times over 6.30 min (60% uptime) while hers heals 1100 times over 7 minutes with a 99%~ uptime, I would assume she casts about twice as many wild growths as me while only getting 60% of the throughput.
Getting the glyph of wild growth and start using soul of the forest, and use those spells in combination should increase her throughput and reduce her mana cost drastically.

Also she was in the healing trial for 40 seconds, sure if you don't dps it takes that long, and I have no way of saying how much mana she spent in there, but if you don't use your spells correctly it can easily drain more mana than you gain, just bursting it down with hotw is very beneficial for the entire raid and your mana.
She is also only using tranq once, using it early is a good choice for increased output and saving mana, as you gain more mana than you use as long as you have a decent amount of spirit. She actually uses it twice in attempt 4 and kill, which is good.
Realised this last part is very minor, and sometimes having the cd for crucial times might be needed.

Just getting the glyph of wild growth is gonna help a lot with her mana usage.

[Deleted]

Won't go through logs because that's already been done, so only doing a quick armory check, and she should really change around her glyphs, Healing touch and Rejuv glyphs are virtually worthless, the glyphs of Regrowth and Wild Growth are tons better.

Also not really that related, but she could (should) drop herbalism for something better, like BS.

[Alltat]

Bad uptime of Harmony. Bad uptime of Lifebloom. Specced for Nature's Vigil but forgets to use it at all. Specced for Incarnation but barely uses it. Doesn't use Tranquility much. Used Barkskin only once in two fights. Didn't use Ironbark at all. Wastes a lot of time casting Nourish.

Most importantly, the logs showed one Innervate per fight. Of course you'll have mana problems if you barely touch your main mana cooldown. It could have been used three times per fight.

[theburned]

Bad uptime of Harmony. Bad uptime of Lifebloom. Specced for Nature's Vigil but forgets to use it at all. Specced for Incarnation but barely uses it. Doesn't use Tranquility much. Used Barkskin only once in two fights. Didn't use Ironbark at all. Wastes a lot of time casting Nourish.

Most importantly, the logs showed one Innervate per fight. Of course you'll have mana problems if you barely touch your main mana cooldown. It could have been used three times per fight.

The uptime on harmony gets lowered by not using swiftmend. She was specced for HotW yesterday so the specc is probably changing most of the time, though the glyphs are an issue. Low usage of tranq and defensive is stupid, but isn't that much of an issue.
The main issue still lies in the immense usage of unglyphed wild growth.

[Alltat]

The uptime on harmony gets lowered by not using swiftmend. She was specced for HotW yesterday so the specc is probably changing most of the time, though the glyphs are an issue. Low usage of tranq and defensive is stupid, but isn't that much of an issue.

There were no uses of Heart of the Wild either, so it's still bad. And not using your cooldowns is an issue, because it means you're going to have to spend more mana on catching up. When activated, Heart of the Wild increases your healing done by 25% for 45 seconds. If you don't use it, you'll instead have to cast 25% more rejuvenations during that time. That's going to hurt your mana bar. If you combine barely using Tranquility, not using your level 90 talent, not using Incarnation, barely using Innervate at all and not using any defensive cooldowns, you're going to struggle to keep up even if you had unlimited mana.

The main issue still lies in the immense usage of unglyphed wild growth.

That's just one tiny issue out of many. Just compare the numbers on Sha of Pride to the other resto druid, then realize that the other resto druid isn't playing flawlessly either.

[theburned]

There were no uses of Heart of the Wild either, so it's still bad. And not using your cooldowns is an issue, because it means you're going to have to spend more mana on catching up. When activated, Heart of the Wild increases your healing done by 25% for 45 seconds. If you don't use it, you'll instead have to cast 25% more rejuvenations during that time. That's going to hurt your mana bar. If you combine barely using Tranquility, not using your level 90 talent, not using Incarnation, barely using Innervate at all and not using any defensive cooldowns, you're going to struggle to keep up even if you had unlimited mana.


That's just one tiny issue out of many. Just compare the numbers on Sha of Pride to the other resto druid, then realize that the other resto druid isn't playing flawlessly either.

her main issue was going oom though, I mostly use my heart of the wild for dps as it tends to be a good dps increase 15m damage is nothing to laugh at in 10man, and I know the other healer can keep up everyone with BL, it is an incredible hps loss, but if it gets down the boss easier it's worth it. But I still manage to catch up to the other healers, still, going incarnation a currently sub par talent when she has issues popping healing cd's in the first place is really bad plays. Been playing with SotF for the entire expansion, with a few fights going incarnation, and trying out force of nature, but I have to admit, it doesn't fit my playstyle I always perform better with SotF.
Also as it's 10 man I usually pop hotw in the start, then sometimes I have it back up in the end for the increased healing needed combined with a couple of moonfires.
The passive of it always seem to out perform the 40% increased single target healing from nature's vigil on cd, cause well I am bad at using the cd, it doesn't fit my playstyle, also most of my healing comes from aoe then rejuvenation.

[Alltat]

The passive of it always seem to out perform the 40% increased single target healing from nature's vigil on cd, cause well I am bad at using the cd, it doesn't fit my playstyle, also most of my healing comes from aoe then rejuvenation.

NV versus HotW depends a lot on the fight. NV has better uptime, while HotW gives more throughput per activation. When looking at NV, keep in mind that both Rejuvenation and Lifebloom are considered a single target healing spells. If there's heavy damage incoming and you pre-HoT with rejuvenation, there's going to be lots of NV healing flying around.

[land]

The healing meta gem is a must for SoO bosses which pretty much counts on most healers have the meta. If you are progressing heroic without that, forget about it. Most mana issues imo comes from trying to use SoO instead of Inc with LB spam. Too much WG will drain your mana incredbly fast if you don't have enough regen or meta gem.

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Also, looking at Sha of Pride i see some very very very bad errors:

- 70% uptime on harmony, might as well reforge OUT of mastery if your not going to use it much lol;
- Innervate casted only once?! Should be poping it early (80% mana) and then reusing it off cd;
- Used Tranq only once per fight? The fuck? Its a 3 min cd, on a 7 min fight you should have used it at least twice.
- Incarnation only used once in a 7 min fight? And only timed with tranq? The fuck, unless ur doing heroic you prob won't need to use them together. Inc can be a pretty good mana cd if used to spam LB during high damage.

69% uptime on LB... Barkskin only once... Never used iron bark... Never ever used NS... OMG... I don't even know why would u raid with this healer tbh, sorry but it is that bad.

[Jurik]

Calm down guys, this is a normal 25-man guild that is on Sha. You shouldn't expect perfect play at this level.

However, the advice given here is solid:

She needs find a way to increase the amount of cooldowns she uses.
* In most fights, Innervate should be used pretty much every 3 minutes after hitting 80% mana for the first time.
* Swiftmend should be used basically whenever it is off cooldown.
* Incarnation should be used on cooldown if there isn't particular reason to save it.
* Barkskin should be used whenever there is non-trivial damage incoming--swelling pride on Sha is a good example.
* Same with Ironbark.
* Nature's Swiftness should be used as soon as it would deliver a useful heal.
* Nature's Vigil should be used almost on cooldown. HotW should be used similarly, but has a bit more thought to it as it can be used as a healing boost or a dps boost depending.

I didn't see anything remarkably wrong about her gear, just low ilvl in a few places. She has sufficient spirit (15k) that she should be good on mana. Don't use a spirit Flask though--use an int flask and learn to properly manage mana.

The state of resto druid has moved on a tremendous amount since WotLK where we just pushed 1-1-1-1-1-2 & repeat. She needs to find a way to help her maximize the use of her cooldowns. Personally, I use a lot of WeakAuras to provide reminders to myself. If she's technically savvy that might be an option for her.

[adynn]

Nature's swiftness should be saved for times when someone gets spiked and is in danger, it'd technically be a hps increase to use it on cooldown but you'd be meter whoring if you did so.

[Alltat]

Nature's swiftness should be saved for times when someone gets spiked and is in danger, it'd technically be a hps increase to use it on cooldown but you'd be meter whoring if you did so.

And it's a marginal HPS increase at best. There's bound to be at least one time when a big instant heal was useful, though. There's no point in having an emergency button that you save for an emergency that never happens. During the Sha of Pride kill, several people died because they were on low health from DoTs and then got hit by predictable raidwide AoE. Using NS to bring their health up could have saved them. No one should be dying from Swelling Pride.


That does bring up another issue from the logs: dispels. Both shamans are dispelling when they shouldn't be, and getting excessive amounts of pride as a result. Both druids are dispelling too little, possibly because the shamans insist on dispelling everything the second they see it (though judging by the wipes, they're getting that much pride from picking up your slack). Only whoever has the Gift of the Titans buff should be dispelling in phase one, but dispelling is your personal top priority when you get the buff. You can't have dispel assignments on that fight, and healers really need to pay attention.

[Unproven]

The healing meta gem is a must for SoO bosses which pretty much counts on most healers have the meta. If you are progressing heroic without that, forget about it. Most mana issues imo comes from trying to use SoO instead of Inc with LB spam. Too much WG will drain your mana incredbly fast if you don't have enough regen or meta gem.

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Also, looking at Sha of Pride i see some very very very bad errors:

- 70% uptime on harmony, might as well reforge OUT of mastery if your not going to use it much lol;
- Innervate casted only once?! Should be poping it early (80% mana) and then reusing it off cd;
- Used Tranq only once per fight? The fuck? Its a 3 min cd, on a 7 min fight you should have used it at least twice.
- Incarnation only used once in a 7 min fight? And only timed with tranq? The fuck, unless ur doing heroic you prob won't need to use them together. Inc can be a pretty good mana cd if used to spam LB during high damage.

69% uptime on LB... Barkskin only once... Never used iron bark... Never ever used NS... OMG... I don't even know why would u raid with this healer tbh, sorry but it is that bad.

i disagree with the tone but agree on the points.
mix in that she obv got abit of L2P (atleast mastering the druid healing)
she does also lack the Meta gem..
all in all. i would say she should reconsider her playstyle as it dosent fit a druid

[Alltat]

all in all. i would say she should reconsider her playstyle as it dosent fit a druid

I don't think it's quite that bad, but there is some "back to basics" learning needed when it comes to uptimes. Running dungeons and trying to make sure that Harmony and Lifebloom never fall off would probably be good practice. If you can't keep Harmony up, nothing you do to improve is really going to make much of a difference.

[land]

Nature's swiftness should be saved for times when someone gets spiked and is in danger, it'd technically be a hps increase to use it on cooldown but you'd be meter whoring if you did so.

If you cast a regrowth while having NS up ur doing it wrong imo. Our regrowth is already pretty quick and always crit (glyphed) which should be more than enough to save someone from dying. Unless ur saving NS for other things like insta brez or cyclone I fail to see why would you try no to use a 1 min CD often versus once per fight kinda deal...