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  1. #121
    About butchering and alienating fans of D3, look at this its most important to understand what was going on:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blizzard_North

    "By June 2003 two new games were in production. However, on June 30, 2003, several key employees left Blizzard North to form the new companies Flagship Studios (8 moved here including Max Schaefer, Erich Schaefer, David Brevik and Bill Roper) and Castaway Entertainment (9 moved here).[citation needed] The Blizzard North exodus continued on with around 30 employees leaving the company in total."

    So the Beta of D3 released about 2005 was so weak in vivendi's eyes that they scrap it and make a complete new diablo3 but without its original core designers, so there is hardly a surprise its very different in comparission to d1+d2 and i do not mean the technical differences.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    "Confirmed" was followed by question mark thus the title was asking the question if the last two expansions had been confirmed or not. If it is such a pointless thread then why are you continuing to contribute to it?
    And aside from that, where in the OP's post did he actually ask if it was confirmed? You are a terrible white knight. As far as why I'm posting here, it is because people like you and the OP and other malcontents here are hell bent on spreading as much misinformation and hate as possible and will go to any lengths to justify it. Whether you want to admit it or not this fansite has become more of a "hate site" so there needs to be people posting who actually still enjoy Blizzard games to balance out all the hate and vitriol. Trying to sidestep what the OP was blatantly attempting to do just goes to show how much this community has degraded.

  3. #123
    The Lightbringer Amulree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mush View Post
    People need to eat my friend, they don't do it because they can make people happy or express their artistic freedom. These are american companies ruled by greed.

    They do this for money, it is a sad truth, but it is the truth.
    I said I didn't think it was just for the money (referencing EverQuest).

    And please, let's not go down the road of "people needing to eat" or "clothe their families". Many, many people in the world do that on a far smaller budget than the likes of Street and his cronies are being paid.

    All I really want to ask is this:

    Was World of Warcraft better when they made epic raids like the Black Temple, had a difficulty curve in heroic dungeons, and designed the game to properly measure risk versus reward? Or do you think it's better in this age where raid content is hashed into four difficulties just to let everyone play it, and dungeons are scrapped to make people go into raids (as the only means of developing your character)?

    It's up to you but, since Cataclysm, World of Warcraft has become a worse game as far as concerns me. I wouldn't presume to tell other people what they think, but the previous design team would never have argued that they didn't do something because they couldn't justify it to the bean counters. Nowadays we're told guaranteed success in the game's most exclusive content is a necessity for it to even be developed.

    The result, of course, is that players are leaving. A full third of Cataclysm's high (12 million) has walked off.

    The saddest part is that, despite all that, Blizzard are probably still making almost as much money as they were previously through all the micro-transactions the game now runs with.

    I'm not saying you're not right, I'm not saying Blizzard shouldn't be in it for the money... But games, the best ones, are works of art. When you do it for money, rather than the love of it or the hope you'll inspire people, you start doing it for the wrong reasons and the product suffers.

    Scenarios (cheap and quick to make) are in, dungeons (expensive and artistically demanding) are out. Compare "A Brewing Storm" to the likes of the original Blackrock Depths and tell me, with a straight face, that the game has improved.

    That's where we are.
    Last edited by Amulree; 2013-10-15 at 09:35 PM.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by jd812 View Post
    that is funny thats like looking at this and saying but we still don't know what's on the other side.
    I didn't say I based my claims off how the map looks, nor did I refer to it as a fact of why we don't know anything about it.

    What I said was that the map we see isn't all of Azeroth, and it isn't. Blizzard has claimed that we only see the "front" of the globe and that every explorer that have gone to look for more have never returned.
    EU first PG wave 30, come at me bros.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I fail to see how an accepted rule of written English is grasping at straws, when you place a question mark at the end of a sentence that sentence becomes a question, the clue is the name of the punctuation used.

    The last line the OP posted was "I thought about it and that really made sense. Are these really the most likely candidates for last 2 expansions?" clearly he is asking what others think about the matter. It would appear that you are reading into it something that is not there.

    If you do not think this thread is serious why have you spent the last three hours posting in it?
    And what is the point of putting that in the title if the OP isn't even going to address it in his post? I'm sorry but the OP isn't some innocent just wanting a discussion. In fact he hasn't even posted in his own thread aside from his initial post so I just don't believe his intentions here were pure like you seem to think. Also stop being ignorant about why I'm posting here. I can have a discussion with other players despite the OP posting complete and total bullshit. I find it funny you are constantly defending anyone wanting to bitch about Blizzard but you don't seem to give a damn when people who still enjoy the game getting attacked by haters. I said it before and I will say it again people like you are complete hypocrites and the main reason why this forum community has turned into shit over the past few years.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    And what is the point of putting that in the title if the OP isn't even going to address it in his post? I'm sorry but the OP isn't some innocent just wanting a discussion. In fact he hasn't even posted in his own thread aside from his initial post so I just don't believe his intentions here were pure like you seem to think. Also stop being ignorant about why I'm posting here. I can have a discussion with other players despite the OP posting complete and total bullshit. I find it funny you are constantly defending anyone wanting to bitch about Blizzard but you don't seem to give a damn when people who still enjoy the game getting attacked by haters. I said it before and I will say it again people like you are complete hypocrites and the main reason why this forum community has turned into shit over the past few years.
    I just posted in it. What's your problem dude?

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    I said I didn't think it was just for the money (referencing EverQuest).

    And please, let's not go down the road of "people needing to eat" or "clothe their families". Many, many people in the world do that on a far smaller budget than the likes of Street and his cronies are being paid.

    All I really want to ask is this:

    Was World of Warcraft better when they made epic raids like the Black Temple, had a difficulty curve in heroic dungeons, and designed the game to properly measure risk versus reward? Or do you think it's better in this age where raid content is hashed into four difficulties just to let everyone play it, and dungeons are scrapped to make people go into raids (as the only means of developing your character)?

    It's up to you but, since Cataclysm, World of Warcraft has become a worse game as far as concerns me. I wouldn't presume to tell other people what they think, but the previous design team would never have argued that they didn't do something because they couldn't justify it to the bean counters. Nowadays we're told guaranteed success in the game's most exclusive content is a necessity for it to even be developed.

    The result, of course, is that players are leaving. A full third of Cataclysm's high (12 million) has walked off.

    The saddest part is that, despite all that, Blizzard are probably still making almost as much money as they were previously through all the micro-transactions the game now runs with.

    I'm not saying you're not right, I'm not saying Blizzard shouldn't be in it for the money... But games, the best ones, are works of art. When you do it for money, rather than the love of it or the hope you'll inspire people, you start doing it for the wrong reasons and the product suffers.

    Scenarios (cheap and quick to make) are in, dungeons (expensive and artistically demanding) are out. Compare "A Brewing Storm" to the likes of the original Blackrock Depths and tell me, with a straight face, that the game has improved.

    That's where we are.
    What is with the manifesto? All you needed to say was you are butthurt that Blizzard is catering to current players and not you. Why do you care if Blizzard makes a profit? What difference does it make to you that there are still people who enjoy Wow? What is sad about any of that? At the end of the day Blizzard won't make a profit and won't continue to be successful by alienating their customers. It isn't how the real world works. Even Blizzard has flat out told players to take a hike if they aren't happy with the game. They refuse to be held hostage by entitled whiny "paying customers" especially when what they want would alienate far more players than the ones who never ever shut the fuck up about how "terrible" Wow is.

    People like you need to accept that not everything players want is good for the game or for other players.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    And what is the point of putting that in the title if the OP isn't even going to address it in his post? I'm sorry but the OP isn't some innocent just wanting a discussion. In fact he hasn't even posted in his own thread aside from his initial post so I just don't believe his intentions here were pure like you seem to think. Also stop being ignorant about why I'm posting here. I can have a discussion with other players despite the OP posting complete and total bullshit. I find it funny you are constantly defending anyone wanting to bitch about Blizzard but you don't seem to give a damn when people who still enjoy the game getting attacked by haters. I said it before and I will say it again people like you are complete hypocrites and the main reason why this forum community has turned into shit over the past few years.
    Fair enough you believe him to be a troll then why even bother to post in the thread? Why not just report it and move on?

    You have hinted that you believe this to be troll thread what is there to discuss with other players?

    I am glad I amuse you but I am sorry even if his post was statement instead of a question I just do not see this as bitching at Blizzard and the fact that you seem to should be a cause for concern. What does it matter if Blizzard only have two expansions left, based on past expansions this is still at least another four years of WOW and during which time many things can change. Who are the haters attacking?

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Umchilli View Post
    I just posted in it. What's your problem dude?
    Thanks for proving me right beyond a shadow of a doubt. Out of everything in this thread this is the post you respond to? Are you kidding me right now? Let's be honest here this is nothing more than a thinly veiled wow is dying thread and if you had any interest in discussion you would actually respond to everything everyone has said to you about the topic of your thread and your first and only response was to whine that I called you out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Fair enough you believe him to be a troll then why even bother to post in the thread? Why not just report it and move on?

    You have hinted that you believe this to be troll thread what is there to discuss with other players?

    I am glad I amuse you but I am sorry even if his post was statement instead of a question I just do not see this as bitching at Blizzard and the fact that you seem to should be a cause for concern. What does it matter if Blizzard only have two expansions left, based on past expansions this is still at least another four years of WOW and during which time many things can change. Who are the haters attacking?
    The OP may very well be trolling but he isn't the only person in this thread and I'm responding to them. I like how you ask me why does it matter how many expansions Wow has and yet you aren't saying that to the OP. The reason I consider you a hater is becuse of bullshit like this that you post in every thread. You defend other haters and anyone posting anything that could possibly put Blizzard or Wow in a negative light and do nothing but attack anyone daring to say they like the game. I have never once see you defend anyone attacked for posting positive things about the game so please come off it already. If you dislike being called a hater then stop being one. Until then I stand by what I said about you. You are a complete and total hypocrite and your post history is proof positive of that.
    Last edited by xanzul; 2013-10-15 at 10:03 PM.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Thanks for proving me right beyond a shadow of a doubt. Out of everything in this thread this is the post you respond to? Are you kidding me right now? Let's be honest here this is nothing more than a thinly veiled wow is dying thread and if you had any interest in discussion you would actually respond to everything everyone has said to you about the topic of your thread and your first and only response was to whine that I called you out.
    In fairness with the amount you have posted in this thread even if he picked a post at random to reply to it would more than likely be one of yours.

    Seriously is that what you get from this thread? WOW is dying? His first post was over seven hours ago and he has not posted at all until replying to you. Maybe he went out? Maybe he just had better things to do with his life? But yeah you're right he is out to get WOW?!?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    The OP may very well be trolling but he isn't the only person in this thread and I'm responding to them. I like how you ask me why does it matter how many expansions Wow has and yet you aren't saying that to the OP. The reason I consider you a hater is becuse of bullshit like this that you post in every thread. You defend other haters and anyone posting anything that could possibly put Blizzard or Wow in a negative light and do nothing but attack anyone daring to say they like the game. I have never once see you defend anyone attacked for posting positive things about the game so please come off it already. If you dislike being called a hater then stop being one. Until then I stand by what I said about you. You are a complete and total hypocrite and your post history is proof positive of that.
    I asked you because you have contributed most to this thread and clearly as you have spent almost four hours responding it is something that bothers you. I did not ask why you consider me a hater I asked who the haters are attacking? I am sorry but because I do not hold WOW in the same esteem as you it does not mean that I hate the game but honestly your opinion of me is inconsequential. Why would I be needed to defend positive posters or Blizzard or WOW when you are patrolling, keeping watch?

  11. #131
    The Lightbringer Gobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callace View Post
    It isn't getting any younger. I think a healthy population a few years down the road is excellent. If you think it's doomsaying to claim that the sub count will wind down in the distant future, then you've lost all touch with reality.
    Lol changing what you said before? Ok then, "Winding down in the distant future" is nothing like what you originally said about it dropping to below 1m in 2expacs time, Ofcourse it will wind down, Noone said it wouldn't, but if you want to try and say something silly like it dropping that much, that quick, at least have the conviction to stick to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Gobra View Post
    Lol changing what you said before? Ok then, "Winding down in the distant future" is nothing like what you originally said about it dropping to below 1m in 2expacs time, Ofcourse it will wind down, Noone said it wouldn't, but if you want to try and say something silly like it dropping that much, that quick, at least have the conviction to stick to it.
    You did say "..at the current rate of sub decline the game will still have millions of players after 2 expacs." Which is simply not the case in the past three quarters 2.3 million players have been lost which equates to 3 million per year based on roughly two years per expansion WOW would be dead just before the expansion after next is released should the current rate continue. I do not think this will happen but it does put into perspective the current rate at which subs will be lost.

  13. #133
    I don't know how many people I've talked to who are convince that the next expansion, or the next two expansions, will be the finale of WoW and that the game will end at level 100. And they invariably say 'oh yeah a blue post totally confirmed that'. It won't happen - WoW is a profitable game that is the leader in it's genre, it won't be shut down for a very long time.

  14. #134
    The game won't shut down until it hits about 100,000 active users, and that will likely never happen.

    I imagine the next expansion will end with about 6 million users

    The expansion after that will end at about 4-5 million users

    The expansion of that will end at about 3-4 million

    After that, 2-3, after that, 1-2, after that .5-1.

    It'll probably level off, in about 6+ years, to about 500,000-ish players, and that's still very profitable.

    After a long many years after that, that'd probably level off to about 200,000+ players, and never go below that, but it'll likely have much smaller expansions, sort of on the scale of what EQ gets.

    I'm also sort of pre-predicting Titan will likely not even get close to the sort of numbers they probably want it to have, not if it's both a new MMO and a new IP, regardless of quality, whenever the heck that thing comes out, so WoW will likely remain their big cash cow for the next 10+ years.



    If people call artistic integrity into question with Blizzard, that's laughable. They're the most artistic integrity defunct of the major PC game companies. If they cared at all about that, there'd of been a Warcraft 4 a while ago.

  15. #135
    The Lightbringer Gobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    You did say "..at the current rate of sub decline the game will still have millions of players after 2 expacs." Which is simply not the case in the past three quarters 2.3 million players have been lost which equates to 3 million per year based on roughly two years per expansion WOW would be dead just before the expansion after next is released should the current rate continue. I do not think this will happen but it does put into perspective the current rate at which subs will be lost.
    You cannot simply determine the projected sub loss over the last 3 quarters, it doesn't work like that with WoW, anyone who's been around more than a year should know that, It rises, and it falls, right now we're approaching the end of the expac, and it's been falling as it draws closer, and it will go back up when the new expac hits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Gobra View Post
    You cannot simply determine the projected sub loss over the last 3 quarters, it doesn't work like that with WoW, anyone who's been around more than a year should know that, It rises, and it falls, right now we're approaching the end of the expac, and it's been falling as it draws closer, and it will go back up when the new expac hits.
    Which is why I wrote in the post you quoted " I do not think this will happen.." but as someone who has been around more than year I can tell you that the only times there has been a rise in subscriber numbers since Wrath is prior the launch of an expansion.

  17. #137
    Legendary! Callace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobra View Post
    Lol changing what you said before? Ok then, "Winding down in the distant future" is nothing like what you originally said about it dropping to below 1m in 2expacs time, Ofcourse it will wind down, Noone said it wouldn't, but if you want to try and say something silly like it dropping that much, that quick, at least have the conviction to stick to it.
    I didn't change anything. A few years feels pretty distant to me.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazlofski View Post
    No. 10 annoying chars.

    Infracted.
    lol

    I thought they stopped doing this...

    even for a yes/no question, do we have to write a paragraph?

  19. #139
    Legendary! Callace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    How is Blizzard "ramping up" the store? For NA/EU regions it only sells pets and mounts and don't even start in on that slippery slope bullshit. It isn't a slippery slope if there is no slipping actually happening. Again as I have said in other posts, mixed payment models for mmos are becoming industry standard so no, I highly doubt Wow will ever go free to play exclusively nor will it need to. Then there is the fact Blizzard flat out said there is very little demand for Blizzard store items aside from pets and mounts in NA/EU regions so "ramping up" the store would be a complete waste of time. As said repeatedly by Blizzard, those other items they are considering adding are for other markets, not us.
    They've admitted to making quite a lot of money from it in the past. At any rate, the game's expansion lifespan is finite, whether it's several years as I think, or decades. If you disagree with that, perhaps you should start a religion.

  20. #140
    OP might have arisen from the Blizzard comment that expansions are worked on 3 at a time - current, development of next, planning of third.

    Someone probably misunderstood that as only 2 more expansions after current.

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