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  1. #141
    I thought it was confirmed a yearish ago in a chart of what they had planned and expected times of expected completion. I believe that there were two expansions coming after pandaria for sure within the next few years, but as many people have said it probably won't stop until it comes to the point of cost to run it outweighs the profit of the game.

  2. #142
    Mechagnome BEYR's Avatar
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    If WoW is still making money, there will be lvl 200 toons running around 10 years from now. If it falls off, They'll close it for 5 or 6 years and then make WoW 2. This will be purely because of money. And I'm not upset with that as long as they at least try to keep lore reasonably sane. Once Wow is officially closed, there will be a massive lore reset anyway with WC4 or WoW 2.

  3. #143
    how can people be so ignorant?? blizzard isnt gonna stop their cash cow because they've reach the amazing 3 digit number. 100 is an insignificant number. Okay, now can we please stop saying wow will end at level 100 even the team mentioned this

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Thanks for proving me right beyond a shadow of a doubt. Out of everything in this thread this is the post you respond to? Are you kidding me right now? Let's be honest here this is nothing more than a thinly veiled wow is dying thread and if you had any interest in discussion you would actually respond to everything everyone has said to you about the topic of your thread and your first and only response was to whine that I called you out.
    Judging by your oversensitiveness on the matter, he was quite right not to reply.

  5. #145
    omg another one of those people without imagination.
    No they won't end WoW after this 2 themes, they can create lore on the fly.
    Next main enemies doesnt need to be world destroyers like Sargeras to feel epic and interesting, and with new gameplay mechanics in new expansions they will still tons of it.
    BTW, whey they announced Pandaria people were like - omg pandas, there's nothing else - and we got so much more unexpected things - Mogu, Mantids, Thunder King, Sha, even fucking Zandalari.

    I'm planning to play WoW for at least next 10 years, and I'm pretty sure Blizzard will deliver.
    my PSN ID - Kobold_Rider

  6. #146
    The Lightbringer Zell the Stormbreaker's Avatar
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    Ok, let's sort this out.

    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    What is with the manifesto? All you needed to say was you are butthurt that Blizzard is catering to current players and not you.
    I've been relating specifically to other posters, and the "manifesto" was to highlight why chasing dollars doesn't always make for the best games. Is it a coincidence that since Cataclysm, when money became the reason to do everything, that the player base has declined? Probably not. All artistic endeavors tend to follow a similar pattern when the creators of said art stop thinking about what inspires them, and what will make the most money.

    Think Joe Bonamassa, and compare that to Justin Bieber. One's music might not be as widely popular as the other at the moment, but I can tell you now who will still be getting air time twenty years from now.

    And let's leave the "butthurt" jabs out of it, shall we? It's a juvenile attempt at closing down a conversation you obviously didn't fully understand. This has nothing to do with developing a game for players other than me, it's to do with the changing language of Blizzard and the resultant quality of the game. If you hadn't noticed, it's not just me that thinks it's going down the toilet.

    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Why do you care if Blizzard makes a profit?
    Mmm, I smell fanboy. Re-read everything I've said in this thread and try to realise that I'm not complaining about anyone making money. My issue is that it shouldn't be the sole, overriding consideration when producing art (which is what I believe video games are).

    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    What difference does it make to you that there are still people who enjoy Wow?
    It makes every difference if it means they'll come in, play a game they love, and start rebuilding dead servers again. In fact, it makes a difference to everyone. I'm not sure how you can't see this.

    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    At the end of the day Blizzard won't make a profit and won't continue to be successful by alienating their customers. It isn't how the real world works. Even Blizzard has flat out told players to take a hike if they aren't happy with the game. They refuse to be held hostage by entitled whiny "paying customers" especially when what they want would alienate far more players than the ones who never ever shut the fuck up about how "terrible" Wow is.
    Yep, fanboy confirmed. None of my commentary in this thread would lead to this response, which means you're simply spouting what you usually do when anyone dares to be critical. Here's the pointers:

    1) Everything Blizzard does is justified because they want to make money. I've never suggested they shouldn't make money. Irrelevant point.
    2) Blizzard has told players that don't like it to leave. I've never suggested those who don't like it should stay. Irrelevant point.
    3) A slight on "whiny paying customers" is tossed in. I've never suggested Blizzard should listen to them all. Irrelevant point.

    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    People like you need to accept that not everything players want is good for the game or for other players.
    And people like you need to read a post, engage with what's actually being said in it, and not jump to the default "someone-is-criticising-Blizzard-I-must-defend" mantra.

    Clue: None of what I've said is about what I, personally, think is good for the game. This post started off questioning whether two expansions more was the overall plan for World of Warcraft, and the first series of criticisms revolved around what would be profitable. This is a very valid criticism. My intercession (with individuals other than you, so I've no idea why you're "butthurt") is purely that I don't think the game is improved when making money is the sole consideration for doing anything. I believe games have imagination invested into them, particularly with design decisions, and that this categorizes them as a work of art. When you start designing art that you want to sell, rather than what you want to inspire people, the product suffers. Nothing in your angry little diatribe seems to argue with my premise, so your contribution to my view is utterly meaningless. You've simply made a pile of assumptions on what I must be saying and attacked them with well-worn counter arguments that leave my premise entirely unscathed.

    It's amusing that you talk about my manifesto, and then post the same one thousands of other players devoted to Blizzard and/or World of Warcraft post.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigfootbigd View Post
    how can people be so ignorant?? blizzard isnt gonna stop their cash cow because they've reach the amazing 3 digit number. 100 is an insignificant number. Okay, now can we please stop saying wow will end at level 100 even the team mentioned this
    Equally, there's nothing to say that they won't dial back on the levels and start an expansion from a lower one. There are multiple design reasons to do so.

  7. #147
    To the OP Topic -

    No. There will be many more expansions for World of Warcraft. Anyone who believes that pre-existing Lore or high character levels somehow dictate or limit the development of future expansions are just unimaginative and short-sighted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    It's up to you but, since Cataclysm, World of Warcraft has become a worse game as far as concerns me. I wouldn't presume to tell other people what they think, but the previous design team would never have argued that they didn't do something because they couldn't justify it to the bean counters. Nowadays we're told guaranteed success in the game's most exclusive content is a necessity for it to even be developed.
    I think we can all agree that Cataclysm was a turn for the worse, but if you can't see the ways in which the game is improving in the last couple of patches, then I think you should take another look. I mean, I think the queuing systems for PvE content (and the tuning required to make them work) are the worst features/content ever added to the game. IMO, features that encourage players to avoid any social responsibility are a bad idea. However, I also believe the implementation of heroic scenarios and flex-raids show that Blizzard is listening to players like myself who would rather avoid those systems.

    In a perfect world, maybe they would have never implemented those systems, but now that they're here, I don't think it's fair to expect them to just go away. And as long as some significant fraction of the player base enjoys them, they don't need to. I'm going to be satisfied as long as there is alternative, more traditional content for player-formed groups. For example, if the dungeons in next expansions don't have at least two difficulties - one for Dungeon Finder groups and another for pre-formed groups - I will be VERY surprised.

    The whole argument about whether Blizzard is trying to make a great game or build a mountain of cash is a false dichotomy. Have Blizzard made design decisions in the past that hurt their bottom line? Absolutely. But now they're growing the team, they're listening to player feedback, they're experimenting with new ways to deliver open-world content, and they're taking steps to remedy realm population issues.

    Call me a fanboy if you want, but aside from some possible problems with PvP, which I admittedly know very little about, I see little reason to complain about the current state of the game or the direction of it going forward.
    Last edited by deathonabun; 2013-10-16 at 12:38 PM.

  8. #148
    I've read that they want another kind of characters progression.

    I guess that their plans is to cap the level to 100. After that keep adding content that make your character progress and gain more power. Also, I don't really see Blizzard proposing to players a game with 255 levels... that would be either 1 year of leveling or gaining a level each time you finish a quest ? Really I can't see this as a possible option.

    So imo theres 90% chances it will be the last 1 or 2 expansions with leveling, but not the last expansion.

  9. #149
    I believe in some interview they said that leveling is a core-part of wow.
    I like the idea when a new xpac hits, we have to gain levels; i see that also as character-progression.

    With this said, I really hope that they come up with something to progress pour chars at max-level also, like Path of the Titans was intended.
    This will open up more options for end-game; as now it is only raids, nothing else really.

  10. #150
    Legendary! Callace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    I've read that they want another kind of characters progression.

    I guess that their plans is to cap the level to 100. After that keep adding content that make your character progress and gain more power. Also, I don't really see Blizzard proposing to players a game with 255 levels... that would be either 1 year of leveling or gaining a level each time you finish a quest ? Really I can't see this as a possible option.

    So imo theres 90% chances it will be the last 1 or 2 expansions with leveling, but not the last expansion.
    You've hit the head on the nail. They aren't going to stop making expansions for a very long time. But we should expect them to stop releasing traditional expansions at some point in the future. Probably after the next two. As the subs slowly taper off, the design model will change.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Synstir View Post
    I believe in some interview they said that leveling is a core-part of wow.
    I like the idea when a new xpac hits, we have to gain levels; i see that also as character-progression.

    With this said, I really hope that they come up with something to progress pour chars at max-level also, like Path of the Titans was intended.
    This will open up more options for end-game; as now it is only raids, nothing else really.
    I think eventually they will replace leveling with a system like this. Levels 90-100 don't signify an end to expansions at 100, but it might mean an end to the leveling process as we know it at 100. That actually sounds like a pretty good idea.
    Last edited by Callace; 2013-10-16 at 01:44 PM. Reason: clarity

  11. #151
    The Patient Swiftzy's Avatar
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    I have a tad bit of inside information. Said source who i've spoken to is extremely cautious with what he says, but he has hinted towards a few things. Out of respect, i won't be rambling about different lore-paths that i have an impression will be represented in the next expansion. However, i can say that certain people in the Blizzard development team are currently working on 8.0. Thus, there is not 2 expansion left, there is considerably more. As someone has already pointed out, Blizzard has not set a "time stamp" for when they'll release their final expansion, nor the number for it. They will keep pushing until they run out of subscribers.
    <Novum Genus> - Tarren Mill Horde

  12. #152
    The Lightbringer Zell the Stormbreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathonabun View Post
    I think we can all agree that Cataclysm was a turn for the worse, but if you can't see the ways in which the game is improving in the last couple of patches, then I think you should take another look. I mean, I think the queuing systems for PvE content (and the tuning required to make them work) are the worst features/content ever added to the game. IMO, features that encourage players to avoid any social responsibility are a bad idea. However, I also believe the implementation of heroic scenarios and flex-raids show that Blizzard is listening to players like myself who would rather avoid those systems.
    I don't actually want the queues removed or the like, nor am I saying "the game is worse in all ways". I think that'd be a rough stance to take and even rougher to defend. Hell, even Cataclysm made a number of QoL changes that undoubtedly made the game better for many people.

    But what are the successes in the last couple of patches?

    Well, it's either the raiding content (which has been successful since long before now) or things like flexible mode that, honestly, we already had with 10-man raiding in WotLK... And it was spectacularly successful. This whole expansion, the best the designers have managed is a "meh" with regard to new content, because the core of the game has simply not moved on and everything else is developed to treat the effect of another problem.

    Challenge modes, the Brawler's Guild, Proving Grounds and Scenarios aren't new content - they take no time or effort to develop, and are nothing more than unconnected side games. I expect this is why people are largely cold about them, because they don't actually do anything new; they just rehash things that are done more meaningfully elsewhere. They all use existing art with existing mobs slammed into them, but they don't actually effect the paradigm of character development in anything even approaching a meaningful fashion.

  13. #153
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    All artistic endeavors tend to follow a similar pattern when the creators of said art stop thinking about what inspires them, and what will make the most money.
    But with a video game you can drop the original creators and bring in new programmers with new life. Yes things tend to fall off when the goal is money but the best part is we as the consumer have a choice of either playing or not, so in the long run it doesn't matter what blizzard's goal is as long as I am personally having fun, when that ends I will find something else.

    Blizzard will not stop their cash cow while it's making a boat load of money. No company in their right mind would stop a product that brings in $100M/Month (or whatever the actual income is), unless it's no longer profitable.
    Last edited by dryankem; 2013-10-16 at 02:38 PM.

  14. #154
    The Lightbringer Zell the Stormbreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dryankem View Post
    But with a video game you can drop the original creators and bring in new programmers with new life. Yes things tend to fall off when the goal is money but the best part is we as the consumer have a choice of either playing or not, so in the long run it doesn't matter what blizzard's goal is as long as I am personally having fun, when that ends I will find something else.
    I'm not saying you are, but people need to stop thinking that I'm suggesting people should stop playing because Blizzard's goal is money. I'm not suggesting that, at all, because it'd be asinine.

    And we've seen what happens when new designers come in. The current team is less talented than the one that brought us up to Wrath, and the subscriptions support such a view.

    Quote Originally Posted by dryankem View Post
    Blizzard will not stop their cash cow while it's making a boat load of money. No company in their right mind would stop a product that brings in $100M/Month (or whatever the actual income is), unless it's no longer profitable.
    Again, I'm not suggesting that they will; merely that it's a shame that the almighty dollar is the driving force behind development.

  15. #155
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    And we've seen what happens when new designers come in. The current team is less talented than the one that brought us up to Wrath, and the subscriptions support such a view.
    That's a point of view though (some people may like MOP far more than vanilla or BC) and it's hard to tie subscriptions down to anything really, it could be age of the game, it could be the economy, it could be no interest in asia and realistically it could be Kalaxxi (they didn't have Kalaxxi when there were 12M subscribers).

    They may have actually brought in more talented people than they had before, which is quite possible due to the amount of money they are making.


    PS - I only really read the last couple of posts, so I don't know the history of the thread and I'm not trying to say your suggesting anything. =)
    Last edited by dryankem; 2013-10-16 at 05:47 PM.

  16. #156
    The only thing confirmed is that people will believe anything.

  17. #157
    The Patient stigz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    I don't wish to derail a thread that's already thoroughly derailed, but I have a real problem with this.

    Should Blizzard keep spouting out expansions so long as the game is making money? What's wrong with making the game because you still love it and your players do? Yes, Blizzard is a business, you don't need to tell me. But surely the idea is that games are fun, rather than profitable.

    To me, the OP has described what I think would be the most logical route to take. Azshara is potentially the last major lore figure to be dealt with prior to Sargeras, and the two are intrinsically linked. Sure, more lore could be made up (as it was, to good effect, with MoP)... But do players want to keep being fleeced expansion after expansion while they wait on the final reckoning we all know is coming?

    Why not go out at the top?

    Why milk as much money as humanly possible?

    Why continue down this route of "profit first" that started in Cataclysm?

    Fun games are always profitable, assuming they were decently marketed. Profitable games are not always fun.

    Somewhere, at some point, Blizzard seem to have forgotten this, and their community happily peddles their message on their behalf.

    It's actually quite saddening.
    The essence of the WoW's downfall. Well said. Very frustrating indeed. So many of us feel that way. I'd venture to say it started in WotLK TotC era. I think why so many people have "rose tinted glasses" memories of BC is because it was spawned with the values you expressed much much more heavily in mind.

  18. #158
    I think Blizzard is actually building N'Zoth as being the big WoW bad guy and not Sargeras. The Old Gods are pretty much Azeroth's biggest threat because once a single Old god is fully unleashed, there is no hope in stopping him(And they were the main-brain behind almost all of Azeroth's problems). It would make sense since N'Zoth and Sargeras are pretty much on par in terms of power.
    "Yes, I'm one of those GW2 fan boys who quit WoW and never even played GW1."[/IMG]

  19. #159
    They may adopt the GW2 way of bringing out content. No more expansions, but small content patches.

  20. #160
    with the WoW movie set to released December 2015, i would expect there to be a upsurge in subscriptions and new players and old players returning to the game. WoW is still a unbeatable MMO, and new MMO's are still currently measured against WoW.

    While this game still makes decent money, it will continue, soon as it comes near to making a loss, that's when you will see an end. I wouldn't focus on a number for levels its all about the money in this industry.

    Do blizzard care about there content... yes i believe they do, but in current economic times, they will only carry on if its profitable to do so, blizzard is a business and will act as one, the long and short of it if WoW keeps feeding blizzards fat cats the worlds universal language then expect see it continue.

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