View Poll Results: Thoughts?

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  • Prefer my characters getting weaker

    336 35.41%
  • Doesn't matter either way

    326 34.35%
  • Prefer my characters getting stronger

    287 30.24%
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  1. #221
    Mechagnome zolok2.0's Avatar
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    OP clearly doesn't understand what the item squish is. You're not getting 'weaker' you're still doing the same amount of damage, just instead of critting a 200,000 you might crit a 2000, but instead of 700m health, bosses might have 70m health. So it's proportional. This is really an easy concept to grasp, I am truly baffled at the sheer amount of people who have trouble grasping this concept. I for one can't wait for the change, because wow is really stupid right now with 400k health and critting 500k's. Like, theres really no fun in it.

  2. #222
    Its really funny how much misinformed their is on this topic. Whats strange is blizzards silence on the subject. They could easily clear all the misinformation up with a very specific blog post but they have yet to do it.
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  3. #223
    Legendary! Asmekiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralgarog View Post
    Your first mistake is you are applying random numbers to a graph. Thats stupid. Take out a protractor and make it to scale using the graph. The change from level 70 to level 90 is not 20 times larger. Learn to read a graph before applying information to a graph. And no i am not nit picking. Don't pull random numbers out of your ass to justify why someone else is wrong.
    Oh, ok. Let's use numbers that were in the game then for that ilvl.
    In Sunwell, ilvl ~150, 2k DPS. In WotLK, ilvl ~270, 15k iirc. Cata, ilvl ~405, 60k. (1x, 7.5x, 30x)
    Now we take the graph and see that Sunwell gear will be reduced 150->90, which would bring them to 1k DPS I think (Didn't play back then, hard to find data but it should be close to that) ICC gear 270->100 (lvl plays a part of course, so lets say 2k DPS.) and DS gear from 405->170. Again level plays a part, so not the 2k that we did in BC, but lets be generous and make it 6k DPS. That brings it to 1k, 2k, 6k. (1x, 2x, 6x). Well, if 6x as strong is the same as 30x as strong, you would be right. The advantage of a higher level still exists, so lower levels still have a hard time hitting you, but you sure won't do relatively the same damage to a lower level as you do now.
    Btw, GC agrees with me.

    Of course it applies to mobs too.. what's that the "same level, relatively the same" part is for.
    Last edited by Asmekiel; 2013-10-15 at 08:47 PM.

  4. #224
    Immortal Quetzl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theturn View Post
    Its really funny how there are so many misinformed people on this topic. Whats strange is blizzards silence on the subject. They could easily clear all the misinformation up with a very specific blog post but they have yet to do it.
    They probably will when they've figured out exactly what they're doing. I mean, they haven't even announced the next expansion yet. I'd give it some time.

  5. #225
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciddy View Post
    As long as it doesn't affect my ability to solo old content, I give a grand total of 0 shits.
    This is pretty much my sentiment, as long as I can still do all the old content just as easily as I can now I've no problems with a stat squish.
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  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevkul View Post
    What you don't understand is that we might end up with Wrath-era ilvls. Which were fine for killing level 60s. But then also factor in that the level 60s will also get squished and the result is that there is no change.
    There would be lots of relative changes for every level in between 1 and level cap.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Marfrilau View Post
    No. Reducing all numbers by a certain percentage is NOT the squish.
    Yes, it is. They are going to reduce the ilvl increases from endgame content from the past expansions. That's the squish. Which is essentially the same as reducing all stats by a fixed percentage.

  8. #228
    I'm all for the squish because my ego isn't dependent on seeing big numbers fly across my screen.

    The squish is fine and will make things more manageable across the board. There's absolutely no downside to it besides bruised egos. It's long overdue and can't come soon enough. Lets just hope the inflation doesn't scale exponentially like it has every previous expansion to require crunching every other expansion.

    As for the OP, your bias is clearly showing. It's not about characters getting weaker, it's about a greater degree of fluid leveling experience. Sure, the result is weaker in terms of numbers, but in terms of strength, it couldn't be further from the truth. To say "weaker" implies that we're not able to compete by today's standards. That's not reality at all. Anything we can do today, we will be able to do after the squish.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Cows For Life View Post
    There would be lots of relative changes for every level in between 1 and level cap.
    Which doesn't matter in the least. You'll still be one shotting everything bellow level 60. What might change is that your one shits will be a bit less overkill.

  10. #230
    Its true, there are only benefits coming from the item squish even if small ones. The only negative is naive people who don't understand it.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Manhands View Post
    Okay, let's do it. Real numbers.

    Boss has 450k health. A player has two abilities, one does 100k and one does 50k and they alternate.

    1. 100k hit, boss at 350k
    2. 50k hit, boss at 300k
    3. 100k hit, boss at 200k
    4. 50k hit, boss at 150k
    5. 100k hit, boss at 50k
    6. 50k hit, boss dead

    Now, scale down by 20% (multiply everything by .8). Boss has 360k. Spells now hit for 80k and 40k.

    1. Hit for 80k, boss at 280k.
    2. Hit for 40k, boss at 240k.
    3. Hit for 80k, boss at 160k.
    4. Hit for 40k, boss at 120k.
    5. Hit for 80k, boss at 40k.
    6. Hit for 40k, boss dead.

    See? It all scales together. Percentages.
    Alright. Lets use real numbers as you say. Say Tier 10 to tier 11 was an increase in stats of 5% and tier 16 to tier 17 is an increase in stats of 25%. Now we do a flat nerf across the board of 20%. The tier 17 player got a bigger nerf in stats as compared to the tier 11 player because the increase in power between tier 16 to 17 is bigger than tier 10 to tier 11 which means the tier 17 player is less strong against the tier 11 player than before the squish. This will affect PvP and soloing old content.

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  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevkul View Post
    Look at the charts I posted. They CLEARLY show that sub-60 levelling won't be touched.

    And what you fail to grasp is that the numbers are too big because of a fundamental limit of integers. RPPM has nothing to do with it.
    So you are admitting then that this isn't a straight percentage drop and you will be relatively weaker after the squish than before? BTW if you want to know where all that lag has been coming from look at the RPPM trinkets didn't start till they were introduced.
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  13. #233
    I see it as basically a massive screw up. They created numbers which couldn't be supported and have been forced into an item squish. This is a reactive move instead of a proactive one, they should have either never allowed the numbers to grow this large or simply bitten the bullet and fixed the underlying issues to allow the numbers to grow. Now the big risk in a reactive move is basically that it leaves them wide open to bugs. If not applied correctly you could end up with the hilarious situation where some mobs or items don't get the nerf and suddenly a player either becomes uber powerful or a mob does. Just think if a current high end weapon gets missed of the nerf table and suddenly anyone with it can one shot pretty much anything (pvp or pve). To me this could mean lots of time spent by the devs cleaning up the mess rather than focusing on new content.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevkul View Post
    Which doesn't matter in the least. You'll still be one shotting everything bellow level 60. What might change is that your one shits will be a bit less overkill.
    Because there are only sub 60s and max level characters out in the world?

  15. #235
    The "stat squish" is just dumb. The point of leveling up and getting new gear is to get stronger. People need to learn to deal with "big numbers", and if they for some reason can't then just add an option to show "1M" damage instead of 1,000,000.

    I really don't get how people have an issue with something like the number 300,000 though. It's not hard to understand unless you are 7 years old.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevkul View Post
    Yes, it is. They are going to reduce the ilvl increases from endgame content from the past expansions. That's the squish. Which is essentially the same as reducing all stats by a fixed percentage.
    How do you come to that conclusion?

  17. #237
    It's the first thing that's ever made me consider quitting WoW since I started playing in 2005.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevkul View Post
    Yes, it is. They are going to reduce the ilvl increases from endgame content from the past expansions. That's the squish. Which is essentially the same as reducing all stats by a fixed percentage.
    They will turn the exponential curve the stats follow into a linear one. That is the squish. And that is not the same as reducing all stats by a certain percentage.

    It will mean that a lvl 90 will be relatively weaker against a lvl 80 after the squish compared to before.
    Last edited by Marfrilau; 2013-10-15 at 08:56 PM.

  19. #239
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    what we DO need is the stop of ability bloat and reduction of CC this is a thing that most ppl agree on
    Part of the reason that I keep playing this game is because of the new abilities and rotation adjustments that are made patch to patch and expansion to expansion. While I agree that there is some bloat and that the game can feel overwhelming to a new player, how are you attracting those players that have already mastered the current incarnation of the spec?

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Cows For Life View Post
    Because there are only sub 60s and max level characters out in the world?
    Nothing else matters. Sub-60s will be less affected than the rest. 70-90 will be reduced by the same proportions so there won't be any change.

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