View Poll Results: Thoughts?

Voters
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  • Prefer my characters getting weaker

    336 35.41%
  • Doesn't matter either way

    326 34.35%
  • Prefer my characters getting stronger

    287 30.24%
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  1. #261
    EVERYONE IN HERE WHO SAYS STAT SQUISH IS NOT NEEDED IS PATENTLY INCORRECT. PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING AND CORRECT YOUR FLAWED KNOWLEDGE OF HOW THINGS WORK.

    Let me tell you something about how 32bit and 64 bit systems work. They are defined by a max number of integers. In this case, the number that defines 32 bit systems is 2,147,483,647. You see, that's 2 billion and some change. 64 operates at a much higher number, but not everyone has 64 bit systems.

    What this means is that the maximum health for a boss in the game is around that 2.1 billion mark. Heroic Garrosh had 1.8 billion, and heals enough times to get to around ~8 Billion health on 25 man. It is basically impossible for Blizzard to maintain a fluid experience under the current system, and a squish is ABSOLUTELY necessary based on the simple computational mathematics, and the limits of 32 bit systems.

    Please do not try to pass off opinion as fact any more without doing research.

    Thanks!

  2. #262
    Elemental Lord Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Your character is not getting "weaker". The numbers will just be easier to handle by both the system and users. There's no difference between a character doing 200dps to a mob with 1k health and a character doing 2 dps to a mob with 20 health.
    You mean doing 200 dps to a mob with 1k hp and 2 dps to a mob with 10 hp.
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  3. #263
    . It is basically impossible for Blizzard to maintain a fluid experience under the current system, and a squish is ABSOLUTELY necessary based on the math of the system, and the limits of 32 bit systems.
    Ok, I get it , but why resolve it with a SQUISH ?
    That would destroy the soloing , and make us feel weaker .

    Megadamage is a better solution , will solve the problem (for moment) without nerfing our characters like the SQUISH will do.


    You mean doing 200 dps to a mob with 1k hp and 2 dps to a mob with 10 hp.
    That's not a squish . That is Megadamage solution.
    The squish would be something like this : instead doing 200dps to 1000 health mob , you will do 1 dps to a 10hp mob.
    Last edited by vandam; 2013-10-15 at 09:22 PM.

  4. #264
    High Overlord Bopcommander's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong, I like seeing the 1mil+ crits, but it is getting out of control. It is time for a change bring everything back down. Over all, I think it'll help with the unbalances between pve and pvp which is my biggest concern. This poll is also need an update.

  5. #265
    Legendary! Asmekiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayden54 View Post
    How easily can you tell the difference between 800000000 and 8000000000? There's a point when the numbers get so big that they don't really mean anything anymore. It's just bignumber1 vs bignumber2.

    The "MegaDamage" thing never made sense to me. It seems like the numbers would either have to be rounded or they'd constantly switch forms. ie Tommy has 250k health. Gets hit for 57856 and now he's at 192144. Would it display 192k or 192144? If the former, then how would you tell exactly how much health anyone has?
    At first glance, without counting, I'd say that the second is 1 digit longer. WoW uses comma's in its numbers though, so it doesn't even matter if I'm correct. Now tell me, can you tell the difference between 800,000,000 and 8,000,000,000?

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    Ok, I get it , but why resolve it with a SQUISH ?
    That would destroy the soloing , and make us feel weaker .

    Megadamage is a better solution , will solve the problem (for moment) without nerfing our characters like the SQUISH will do.




    That's not a squish . That is Megadamage solution.
    The squish would be something like this : instead doing 200dps to 1000 health mob , you will do 1 dps to a 10hp mob.
    you're not being nerfed you just have this flawed logic of THINKING you are. Out of all the things to disagree on people disagree on a item squish? It does nothing but shrink your overflowing egos!

    I now know how Blizzard feel of not pleasing everyone.

    I think Blizzard should do whats right instead of listening to their fans on things, because thats a 50/50 risk if it will be successful or not.

  7. #267
    Elemental Lord Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo View Post
    What about a % dmg indicator instead of raw numbers?

    Your Agony hits Angry Murloc for 12.7% damage
    Your Unstable Affliction hits Angry Murloc for 10.7% damage

    Instead of Damage per Second we would have Percentage per Second and we would never have to worry about large numbers again.
    That wouldn't work ob bosses as it would be like your incinerate deals 0.003% damage or even more digits perhaps.
    Send me a PM and suggest a forum avatar based on my title, Immortal.

  8. #268
    As long as everything else is scaled with me so I can still solo old content for transmogs materials and achievements, I really don't care. As it is I really don't see why it's so necessary as to require Blizzard to step in, but whatever. I play for fun and to hang with friends, so my experience isn't going to be that effected. What I do want is for Blizzard to freaking update the vanilla character models. Come on Blizzard, you've reskinned Tauren twice now with the Taunka and the Yaoungol or however it's spelled! Let me make my tauren actually look cool without having to cover every square inch of him in armor!

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by StrayFox View Post
    Than good riddance, if small numbers over big stupid numbers make you want to quit than no one wants you here anyway.
    It's absolutely no different than the people that say the same if big numbers stay.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kragragh View Post
    thuper dramatic and a silly reason to quit
    Tell that to the rest of the thread complaining about big numbers when it's the same exact subjective situation.

  10. #270
    The OP was basically begging for a flame war creating this post, especially with those poll questions.

    It's absolutely no different than the people that say the same if big numbers stay.
    I don't really care if they stay or not, I think its a matter of the overall well being of the game (memory usage and better readability). I'm just more confused as to why so many people want something so silly to stay.

  11. #271
    See lots of comments about how big numbers require more powerful hardware to handle. Utter garbage people, the number we deal with in WoW are measured in the millions for a home PC these numbers are pitifully small. Every day computers deal with vastly higher numbers in a matter of milliseconds, hell the stock exchanges of the world handle trillions upon trillions of dollars directed by millions of investors for hundereds of thousands of companies and never slows down. Do you honestly thing 25 people doing 300k-400k numbers per second against a boss with half a billion heath can even begin to tread on the math processing ability of any CPU made in the last 20 years?

    All that has happened is they never designed there core engine to take numbers this far it has nothing to do with the power of computers and everything to do with code. Code which by now is so massive in scope they simply aren't up to the challenge of fixing it to handle numbers so are going for the strategy of when numbers get to big they squish them. They've pretty much said this will happen in next expansion and even hinted this may not be the last squish WoW receives.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdef View Post
    [B][I][U][FONT=Arial Black][SIZE=4]Let me tell you something about how 32bit and 64 bit systems work. They are defined by a max number of integers. In this case, the number that defines 32 bit systems is 2,147,483,647. You see, that's 2 billion and some change. 64 operates at a much higher number, but not everyone has 64 bit systems.

    What this means is that the maximum health for a boss in the game is around that 2.1 billion mark. Heroic Garrosh had 1.8 billion, and heals enough times to get to around ~8 Billion health on 25 man. It is basically impossible for Blizzard to maintain a fluid experience under the current system, and a squish is ABSOLUTELY necessary based on the simple computational mathematics, and the limits of 32 bit systems.

    Please do not try to pass off opinion as fact any more without doing research.

    Thanks!
    Thanks for the computer lesson, but a 32 bit computer can still handle numbers above 2.1 billion. It's not as if adding a boss to the game that had more than 2.1 billion health would suddenly make the game incompatible with 32 bit systems or even run slower on them.

    The way I understand it is it's the sheer volume of large numbers. open your combat log during an encounter and you'll see what looks like absolute chaos. The game has to track every autoattack, every heal, every dot, every hot, every block, every dodge, every resist, every crit, etc. the raid does, and that's hard to do when each of those numbers are so high.

    But the thing about computers is that they're very good at handling large numbers. In fact, most computers would probably run fine without stat squish, it's WoW's servers that would probably have the most trouble. So in the end we still need stat squish but it has almost nothing to do with 32 bit vs 64 bit systems.

  13. #273
    Elemental Lord Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    Ok, I get it , but why resolve it with a SQUISH ?
    That would destroy the soloing , and make us feel weaker .

    Megadamage is a better solution , will solve the problem (for moment) without nerfing our characters like the SQUISH will do.




    That's not a squish . That is Megadamage solution.
    The squish would be something like this : instead doing 200dps to 1000 health mob , you will do 1 dps to a 10hp mob.
    I know that. i was correcting them on their math.
    Send me a PM and suggest a forum avatar based on my title, Immortal.

  14. #274
    It still boggles my mind how this can upset some people. Everything else, including all the mobs will be scaled down as well. It seems to me, these individuals would be happy if their salaries suddenly were increased tenfold, but prices on everything would have been increased tenfold as well.
    Sure, it may not be perfect and will probably need some (maybe quite a bit) tweaking down the road, but as far as the "we are gonna be weaker" argument goes, it doesn't stand a chance.
    Last edited by Creotor; 2013-10-15 at 09:36 PM.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by StrayFox View Post
    you're not being nerfed you just have this flawed logic of THINKING you are. Out of all the things to disagree on people disagree on a item squish? It does nothing but shrink your overflowing egos!
    If you don't know what does it mean to transform a geometric progression function in a arithmetic progression function , then you have absolutely no ideea about what you are talking .


    Belive me , you will be nerfed.


    It still boggles my mind how this can upset people. Everything else, including all the mobs will be scaled down as well.
    It upset the people that understand that a Squish is not Megadamage solution . And you will be nerfed in a Squish.
    Then someone who don't understand it , come and point to the Megadamage solution explaining that you won't be nerfed.

    OFC , in the Megadamage solution we won't be . But in a sqush one we will be nerfed.
    Last edited by vandam; 2013-10-15 at 09:41 PM.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by jsz View Post
    Those poll options are horribly biased.

    The stat squish cannot come soon enough. It is incredibly needed.
    Why?
    I am not for or against it, I simply don't care. I don't see any reason to do so. Do a couple of zeros here and there really matter that much to you?

  17. #277
    High Overlord Ryuuki's Avatar
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    Megadamage doesnt resolve the problem that the Int32 has.

    Lets say some boss in next expansion would have 20 billion. While ovbiously you could say 'Lets store that as a 2 and a 10' (10 being the exponent), which both are very small numbers'. The too clever mind would say thats possible. But now lets say, my vipers from Snake Trap start doing some damage. Currently they can deal as low as 70 damage. with next xpack, thats maybe 700 damage.

    Now, we would have to store 700 as a 7 and a 2. (7^2 = 200). Quite possible you say, with MEGADAMAGE?

    Well, now comes the tricky part. We have to subtract 7^2 from 2^10. Well, like it or not, at some point the processor in your computer will have to do the operation (20 000 000 000 - 700), at which point you will get some form of overflow error and your game will crash or other terrible things will happen.

    Now, strictly speaking I could come up with clever algorithms that would make MEGADAMAGE work, but at that point you are replacing simple addition and subtraction operations with very complex methods. This could and most likely will exhaust any computer that is not located at NASA or Google, given the fact that in a raid perhaps thousands if not millions of those operations are being done every second.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    Ok, I get it , but why resolve it with a SQUISH ?
    That would destroy the soloing , and make us feel weaker .

    Megadamage is a better solution , will solve the problem (for moment) without nerfing our characters like the SQUISH will do.




    That's not a squish . That is Megadamage solution.
    The squish would be something like this : instead doing 200dps to 1000 health mob , you will do 1 dps to a 10hp mob.
    Pre squish: It takes you 25 seconds to kill Mob A
    Post squish: It takes you 25 seconds to kill Mob A

    How does the squish make you weaker other than you somehow perceiving "big numbers make strong!"

    The squish changes nothing. NOOOOOOOOTHIIIIIIIING!!!! Other than the perception that "big numbers make strong."

    Sort of like this poll. If it were presented without bias against the stat squish, you'd likely have different results, but the way the options are presented, it artificially creates bias in opposition to the squish.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdef View Post
    EVERYONE IN HERE WHO SAYS STAT SQUISH IS NOT NEEDED IS PATENTLY INCORRECT. PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING AND CORRECT YOUR FLAWED KNOWLEDGE OF HOW THINGS WORK.

    Let me tell you something about how 32bit and 64 bit systems work. They are defined by a max number of integers. In this case, the number that defines 32 bit systems is 2,147,483,647. You see, that's 2 billion and some change. 64 operates at a much higher number, but not everyone has 64 bit systems.

    What this means is that the maximum health for a boss in the game is around that 2.1 billion mark. Heroic Garrosh had 1.8 billion, and heals enough times to get to around ~8 Billion health on 25 man. It is basically impossible for Blizzard to maintain a fluid experience under the current system, and a squish is ABSOLUTELY necessary based on the simple computational mathematics, and the limits of 32 bit systems.

    Please do not try to pass off opinion as fact any more without doing research.

    Thanks!
    Actually you should do your own research 64 bit and 32 bit numbers in code have zero to do with 32 bit and 64 bit CPU's. The truth of the matter is it's all code a 32 bit program can and will use 64 bit variables if the compiler it's based on supports the ability it does this by simply breaking the 64 bit number down into multiple 32 bit numbers for storage and retrieval. Using this method it is possible to create any bit number you could ever desire. The only consideration is that it is far more efficient to compile 64 bit integers on a 64 bit platform than to convert 64 bit parameters into 32 bit for use on 32 bit platforms.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Creotor View Post
    It still boggles my mind how this can upset some people. Everything else, including all the mobs will be scaled down as well. It seems to me, these individuals would be happy if their salaries suddenly were increased tenfold, but prices on everything would have been increased tenfold as well.
    Sure, it may not be perfect and will probably need some (maybe quite a bit) tweaking down the road, but as far as the "we are gonna be weaker" argument goes, it doesn't stand a chance.
    Oh here we go again. You clearly don't know what a squish will actually do so please stop posting nonsense like this. A squish will not just reduce everything by a certain percentage...

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