View Poll Results: Thoughts?

Voters
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  • Prefer my characters getting weaker

    336 35.41%
  • Doesn't matter either way

    326 34.35%
  • Prefer my characters getting stronger

    287 30.24%
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  1. #381
    Field Marshal psychok9's Avatar
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    Who care? All numbers are relative to the enemies...

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Cows For Life View Post
    Except players will be weaker against enemies and players of lower level. I mean, if you actually understood what was going on. Going back to "old content" to farm items, rep, or whatnot will get tougher and take more time.
    Not if the squish still maintains a similar exponential scale. a lvl 90 will still be significantly more powerful then a 60, it just won't be using the exact same scale. Blizzard has explicitly said that if it takes ~8 hits to kill a specific mob now, it will take ~8 hits to the same mob after the squish. They have also explicitly stated that soloing old content must be preserved as a requirement of their solution. So it won't take more time or be tougher to farm "old content'.

    Relative power between levels should not change, just the numbers modelling the power.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    Actually is exactly the other way.

    The people raging about the squish are the one understanding the consequences of changing a geometrical progresion in a linear one .

    The ones for the squish have no idea what does this mean . They keep coming with the Megadamage solution and explaining how Megadamage won't change nothing . Ofc , but Squish is not Megadamage . And it will nerf you.

    I can bet you have no ideea what am I talking about . I can bet "geometric progression" and "linear progresion" are just strange words to you.
    Oh, that's cute. Someone trying to act more intellectual than they actually are on the internet. I could sit here and explain how stupid your post is, but you wouldn't understand.
    Last edited by sith; 2013-10-16 at 03:40 AM.

  4. #384
    Retarded poll options.
    Could you have managed to be anything more biased without only giving one option: "I'm right and you're wrong" ?

    Apart from that. Don't care. I care about competing for top. Not if i'm top with 10 dps or 1.000.000 dps.
    Everyone has so much to say
    They talk talk talk their lives away

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by sith View Post
    Oh, that's cute. Someone trying to act more intellectual than they actually are on the internet. I could sit here and explain how stupid your post is, but you wouldn't understand.
    If people would at least read about what is "geometric progression" and what is "linear progression" and learn basic knowledge about how graphs work, there would be much less stupid posts. Ignorance isn't something to be proud of.

    As it stands now, people just try to bring stupid argument that "relative power will stay the same", even though there were a lot of posts and even lots of pictures showing that it won't be so.

    If you really think it would be so, why do you think Blizzard would write about some "dungeon buffs for solo"? Didn't you even think that it is because relative power will not stay same? They can't just divide everything on 100 and have sub-1 HP mobs and players running in newbie zones hitting for fractions of 1 and getting greens with "+0,01 Strength". Is it so hard to understand?

  6. #386
    I think at this point, the people who understand the math know it won't stay the same and isn't just some magical button that Blizzard pushes. However the ones that don't get it after all the explanation since it was first announced probably aren't going to get it.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    If you really think it would be so, why do you think Blizzard would write about some "dungeon buffs for solo"? Didn't you even think that it is because relative power will not stay same?
    I did some digging and found the source for the "dungeon buffs for solo" idea. Context is tricky, it could be read as 'this is what we will do' or "this is a hypothetical response to a hypothetical answer". who knows till we see something more solid?
    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...53330179534850

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    They can't just divide everything on 100 and have sub-1 HP mobs and players running in newbie zones hitting for fractions of 1 and getting greens with "+0,01 Strength". Is it so hard to understand?
    I would be shocked if the squish was simplistic as /100. Not a maths buff and such things a 10+ years go in my past, so this won't be a good explanation...
    but gear power currently grows exponentially against ilvl, so a flat scale won't cut it. Rather the modifier would have to scale with ilvl too, so lower lvl loot, mobs and players would be effected far less then end game to prevent percentage based stat numbers (0.5% hp newbs with +0.01 str items).

  8. #388
    The Patient Reserk's Avatar
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    I've had enough of big numbers. Item Squish naow pls.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by eem5 View Post
    I did some digging and found the source for the "dungeon buffs for solo" idea. Context is tricky, it could be read as 'this is what we will do' or "this is a hypothetical response to a hypothetical answer". who knows till we see something more solid?
    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...53330179534850



    I would be shocked if the squish was simplistic as /100. Not a maths buff and such things a 10+ years go in my past, so this won't be a good explanation...
    but gear power currently grows exponentially against ilvl, so a flat scale won't cut it. Rather the modifier would have to scale with ilvl too, so lower lvl loot, mobs and players would be effected far less then end game to prevent percentage based stat numbers (0.5% hp newbs with +0.01 str items).
    They aren't changing how iLevel works. It is an iLevel squish, and you can hear them refer to it as such. So nothing will change with how iLevel works we are just reducing the iLevel. They have not said how much they will squish be, but let's say they want to squish 200 ilevels. You can't just subtract 200 iLevels from all of the gear in the game, because not all of the gear even has 200 iLevels. They have to do it in steps, and one would assume it would be gradual steps. Either way it is stepped, and the higher the iLevel of your gear the more squish it receives. Unless players are doing content that has received the same amount of squish they have(probably current expack and the one before it), it will not be the same as it is now but with smaller numbers. They will have to provide some kind of code based adjustment that requires programming.

  10. #390
    I have to agree that the OP does not understand what the item\stat squish is, means, or is useful for.

    oh well.

  11. #391
    Dreadlord Outofmana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McLockhart View Post
    I no longer care if I crit 500k or 501k with my Chaos Bolt or if I have 700k or 705k HP with my tank. It simply gets lost in the context and I hope we'll get down to reasonable numbers, such as the ones in vanilla or TBC.
    I no longer care if I crit 1000 or 1001 with my Chaos Bolt or if I have 7000 or 7005 HP with my tank.
    How is this....ANY different.

    They should only do it if it's a strain on the servers, otherwise it's beyond ridiciulous to go down in numbers.

  12. #392
    i like smaller numbers... as someone has said as long as i can do shit i would normally be able to do... AKA solo bosses from older content.. then hey bring that shit
    "Prepare for the unknown by studying how others in the past have coped with the unforeseeable and the unpredictable."
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    General George S Patton

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Haywire5714 View Post
    The current heroic bosses are already reaching the maximum amount of health that they can have. So if they don't do the item squish bosses will have to heal all the time which would be really annoying.
    Or the devs just use a 64-bit integer instead of a 32-bit integer to store the health value. Of course, that requires a lot of testing (to make sure it doesn't break anything or cause unintended consequences) but the other option (squish) also requires a lot of testing and time spent making sure nothing breaks.

    A 64-bit integer would give a health cap of 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 (18 quintillion) and even with the exponential increases that'd keep WoW going for many years yet. (And before anyone pipes up with the "but I'm using a 32-bit machine", bear in mind 16-bit Excel could handle 64-bit integers back in 1990!)

    The daft thing about all of this is that all a squish won't solve anything long term. The whole idea of "new greens obsolete old purples" means that exponential scaling is here to stay and even with a squish they'll have exactly the same "problem" in a couple of expansions.
    Last edited by Retron; 2013-10-16 at 06:06 AM.

  14. #394
    Biased poll is biased.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    Yes, the integer limits are starting to become an issue (heroic Garrosh) that without an item level squish is a non-trivial problem that would eat up huge amounts of development time to fix. Instead, you can just squish and move on.
    As opposed to the instant dev fix of scaling things back? Think again, it'll take a decent chunk of time to re-balance the entire game (which is what would be needed with an item level squish).

    Either option will require work. One option (the squish) just defers the problem for a couple of years, the other option (using 64-bit integers) gives breathing room for a decade or more.

  16. #396
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    You biased the fuck out of your poll options and you're still on the losing side. GG

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    They aren't changing how iLevel works. It is an iLevel squish, and you can hear them refer to it as such. So nothing will change with how iLevel works we are just reducing the iLevel. They have not said how much they will squish be, but let's say they want to squish 200 ilevels. You can't just subtract 200 iLevels from all of the gear in the game, because not all of the gear even has 200 iLevels. They have to do it in steps, and one would assume it would be gradual steps. Either way it is stepped, and the higher the iLevel of your gear the more squish it receives. Unless players are doing content that has received the same amount of squish they have(probably current expack and the one before it), it will not be the same as it is now but with smaller numbers. They will have to provide some kind of code based adjustment that requires programming.
    yep, this is what I was trying to say.

  18. #398
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    Last night, while you were asleep, everything in the universe shrunk to half size in order to please the raging blind masses that are incapable of understanding numbers larger than they can count to and to address "hardware limitations" that don't exist, only to end up creating a talking nexus that's been plaguing this forum since the people who suggested it thought it was a good idea to go forward with one choice only to back out later and attempt to fall on the other.

    I tried really hard to keep the reverse of what you said in context, sadly I failed.
    Or maybe you just want huge numbers because you're compensating for something you're incredibly lacking in. *cough* *cough*

  19. #399
    Have you guys tought how ridiculously low stats will be on the lower levels ? I mean if we are keeping everything relatively the same after the squish, we gona have mobs with 1 HP and ppl doing .01 damage on lv 1.

    Personaly id like the numbers to continue to grow it will feel like I got weaker for no reason even if its still relatively the same if my DPS goes from 300k to 10k out of nowhere.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by eem5 View Post
    yep, this is what I was trying to say.
    The thing is though it really isn't even a fix. If they squish iLevel by 200, which is a pretty big number(everything up until Naxx in Wrath if they did it all at once), that would only bring current iLevels down to where they were at the beginning of Cataclysm. In other words at the end of the expack we will likely be back where we were at the beginning-middle of the this expack. In other words they will have to do a squish every expack and we will still eventually end up where we are now unless they completely remove all gear progression from old content. The "problem" is fundamental to how the game is designed.

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