View Poll Results: After reading: Do you think HotS is EXP 5?

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  • Yes! Make sense.

    39 17.57%
  • No! I have my doubts.

    119 53.60%
  • I'm not sure. Maybe.

    64 28.83%
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  1. #1

    Heroes of the Storm - Listing the Evidence

    What ho,

    Here is why Heroes of the Storm is likely to be WoW's fifth expansion - not Hearthstone or Blizzard All-Stars.



    1. The Trademark Description

    IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Computer game software, computer game discs, downloadable computer game software, computer game software downloadable from a global computer network, interactive multimedia computer game program; Downloadable electronic game software for use on portable electronic devices such as mobile and cellular phones, laptops, handheld computers, and tablet PCs

    Hearthstone?

    The name itself is quite similar to Hearthstone's subtitle: 'Heroes of Warcraft'. But that's where the similarities end.
    Heroes of the Storm's trademark description specifically mentions computer game discs. Hearthstone won't have physical discs, which rules a Hearthstone expansion out. Furthermore, it is much too early for a Hearthstone expansion anyway. But the physical discs is really what gives it away. This is not for Hearthstone.

    Blizzard All-Stars?

    Heroes of the Storm also sounds like a nice re-naming of Blizzard All-Stars, with 'Heroes' referring to the characters you'll play and 'Storm' referring to the location, much like the abstract 'Mists' in Guild Wars 2, where players do PvP.

    However, notice how the Heroes of the Storm Goods and Services description mentions electronic devices such as mobile and cellular phones [...]. The Blizzard All-Stars description, seen below, does not.

    IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Computer game software, computer game discs, computer game software and related instruction manuals and guides sold together as a unit, downloadable computer game software, computer game software downloadable from a global computer network, downloadable electronic games via the internet and wireless devices, interactive multimedia computer game program
    There is a reason for this. A MOBA is a fiercely tactical and competitive game, meant for e-sports primarily. Its players require a maximum amount of control input and flexibility, and have to be able to use mouses and keyboard hotkeys for quick reactions within the game.

    Tablets could run MOBAs fine, hardware-wise, but they wouldn't offer the sophisticated control input to players as PCs would. Furthermore, there is no way you could play a MOBA on a mobile phone - it is much too small. This tells us that the section about mobiles and handheld devices in the Goods and Services description for Heroes of the Storm is more likely meant for a feature in a game, not for a game itself.

    World of Warcraft?

    WoW has physical discs, it has downloadable computer game software, and downloadable game software to use on portable devices. It has the Armory, the Auction House, and Pet Battles. With Hearthstone and All-Stars ruled out, it seems increasingly plausible that this section of the text refers to Blizzard simply expanding these features in the next expansion, giving them more mobile integration. We don't have evidence for this, but seeing as we do have evidence that rules out everything but the WoW expansion or an unheard of potential new IP, it is safe to assume WoW is the answer.


    2. The Name

    The trademark has received a lot of blame for its name. People say it sounds silly, or not like WoW.
    I disagree, and think the name fits perfectly.

    Storm?

    What storms do we know of?
    This article by Joystiq.com sums up our storms nicely.
    One of the storms they focus on is the obvious one. The one that's been in our collective consciousness for years, the one Blizzard has refused to let us forget throughout Mists of Pandaria; continuously referencing it in lore, the Wrathion quest line, the Shaohao videos, and so on.

    The Burning Legion, and the Reign of Fire. I'll quote the article:

    One of the biggest storms in the history of the universe absolutely has to be the backlash that ripped across Draenor after the end of the Second War. It didn't just separate one continent into many, like the Sundering on Azeroth -- it completely destroyed an entire world. The destruction of Draenor wasn't due to demonic invasion or the influence of the Old Gods, however. It was one orc, Ner'zhul, who opened portals all over the planet with the intent of giving the orcs new worlds to conquer and destroy. In order to do this, he used four powerful artifacts stolen from Azeroth -- the Book of Medivh, the Eye of Dalaran, the Jeweled Scepter of Sargeras, and a memento from his former student, the Skull of Gul'dan.

    As he opened the portals, Draenor was overwhelmed and collapsed. Ner'zhul, seeking a quick escape, decided to abandon the Horde and head through the nearest portal in an attempt to escape the world's destruction -- an act that ended with him being discovered by Kil'jaeden and transformed into the Lich King. Draenor itself collapsed under the strain of so many magic portals, and shattered into remnants of the world that now float in the Twisting Nether -- a place we call Outland. As far as storms go, this one was pretty significant.

    In the majority of these cases, storms, whether they be raw arcane magic or fire raining from the sky, seem to herald the Burning Legion in one form or another. Ner'zhul would not have gotten to where he was at that point in history were in not for the influence of the Burning Legion on his people -- the Sundering never would have happened if it weren't for the original portal and the contact established between Queen Azshara's followers and the Burning Legion.

    Heroes?

    As we all know, Metzen specifically told us that we will need Turalyon and Alleria for what's next. He said this in response to my tweet during the MoP launch ceremony.

    The five heroes from Beyond the Dark Portal haven't had much spotlight since WoW began. There are big statues erected of them in the Valley of Heroes; Kurdran, Khadgar, and Danath all play the roles of quest givers in The Burning Crusade; and Turalyon and Alleria are missing, being mentioned only by their son, and a Loading Screen in the game.

    I will again refer back to the Joystiq.com article, to save myself some time.

    After the Second War, a group of heroes traveled through the Dark Portal into Draenor, with the intent of getting the Book of Medivh back from Ner'zhul. There were five heroes that led the expedition -- Archmage Khadgar, Kurdran Wildhammer, Danath Trollbane, Alleria Windrunner, and Turalyon. Their statues can be found at the gates of Stormwind in the Valley of Heroes, named after those that disappeared on the other side of the Dark Portal. In Burning Crusade, we discovered that Khadgar was alive, well, and chatting it up with the naaru in Shattrath City. Danath was holding his own in Honor Hold, and Kurdran had settled in as the Thane of Wildhammer Stronghold in Shadowmoon Valley.

    Turalyon, High General, paladin, and second in command to Lord Anduin Lothar during the Second War, was nowhere to be found. Alleria, eldest of the Windrunner sisters, Turalyon's lover and a force to be reckoned with in her own right, was similarly missing. Their son Arator had been left behind when the Alliance Expedition was sent through the Dark Portal -- but in Burning Crusade, he traveled through the portal in search of his mother and father. To the disappointment of many, Turalyon and Alleria were never found, even after carefully combing through every far off reach of Outland.

    It's been implied, time and time again, that we will see Turalyon and Alleria make a return. It's been pointed out that this return would theoretically be in the next expansion -- that we would see them return when we needed them most. So where have the two of them been, what have they been doing, and what would mark their return? Well ... actually, if you speak with Arator over in Honor Hold, he's been having a dream about that very moment for years.
    I was only an infant when my father was deployed to this wasteland. All that I have ever known of him is what others have told me. Do your dreams change? Mine do not. I have one dream: A crimson skyline envelops me as Legion, numbering beyond comprehension, battle in the distance. I kneel before the body of a man, presumably my father, and weep. As he is gasping for air, his body wholly crushed, he whispers something. Despite every effort, I am unable to hear what he is trying to tell me.
    People assumed, in Burning Crusade, that Arator's words meant we'd see his mother and father in an upcoming patch -- but we never did. What if that crimson skyline isn't the wastes of Hellfire Peninsula, or even Outland at all -- what if it's actually referring to Azeroth? And what would High General Turalyon think of the Alliance of today -- what would he think of King Varian Wrynn and the man he's become? How would Alleria react to the news that one of her sisters is a widow and mother, the other an undead leader of a faction the Alliance despises?

    3. Conclusion

    The Trademark

    So, now we know that the trademark is very, very unlikely to refer to either Hearthstone or Blizzard All-Stars, seeing as how the first or even both do not use physical game discs, and the other would never work as intended on mobile platforms - especially with e-Sports in mind.

    This rules out anything but World of Warcraft OR a potential new IP that is yet unheard of.

    There is nothing in the description which rules out WoW.


    The Clues - Nay, Evidence!

    We've seen the clues.

    Blizzard have been relentlessly hinting the Burning Legion throughout Mists of Pandaria.

    We have:

    The Chris Metzen quote where he says Turalyon and Alleria are needed for what's next. The only logical connection between them and any plausible expansion goes through the Burning Legion.

    The Shaohao videos. While they are set in the past, they certainly spell out Legion. Not only do they remind us of the threat, but they also suggest there is a future challenge for which the Pandaren must be prepared. Honestly, I don't think that challenge was us bringing the war to Pandaria. What did Shaohao do on his journey to become one with Pandaria and protect its people, Pandaren and Mantid alike, from the Burning Legion? He cast out his feelings of Doubt, Despair, Anger, Fear, Hatred, and Violence. What have we done since we arrived at Pandaria? We've overcome our Doubt, Despair, Anger, Fear, Hatred, and Violence. Lastly, during SoO, we defeated the Sha of Pride - we came together to face our foes in a time of need, despite our differences. Pride was the most powerful and sinister of the vices cast off by Shaohao, and it alone could cause all the others to re-emerge over time. Only when he cast that away and decided to protect all the creatures of Pandaria, whether good or bad, did he achieve his goals. What has divided the Horde and Alliance for years, if not the stubborn pride of Garrosh Hellscream and Varian Wrynn? Well, we overcame it together at last. To the extent that Varian Wrynn even allowed the Horde to persist after SoO, despite how bad it would make him look before his suffering people. We are now prepared to protect the world against the Burning Legion. The world is one.

    The Wrathion quest line, where he shows us Azeroth being invaded by the Burning Legion, says we have to work together, and wants us to form an army - among other things. You've all heard it before, so I won't go into detail.

    The Vision of Velen, in which he foresees an Army of Light being formed to fight the Legion. We've just ended the war, and Garrosh, whose pride continuously infested our relationships through warmongering, has been defeated.

    This all means that the trademarked name makes perfect sense, and could very likely be the next WoW expansion.

    I say,
    BRING IT ON, BLIZZARD!
    Last edited by Mojo Risin; 2013-09-30 at 10:37 AM.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

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  2. #2
    What you say may very well be true since it definitely sounds something that may happened. But I hope Blizzard will change the name if that's the case. I don't what it is but people will think it is Warcraft 4 or something which may cause anger on some people.

  3. #3
    There want be a Warcraft 4 they said some where mop was basically Warcraft 4

  4. #4
    Somewhere I read that the trademark description for Heroes of the Storm is exactly the same as for Blizzard All-Stars.

  5. #5
    Field Marshal inkberry's Avatar
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    Don't want two games with the abbreviation HoTs by the same company. Don't care.

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire
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    A long wall of text but still I see no evidence.
    As finishing touch, God created the Dutch.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    The "computer game disc" part may very well, just be a way to cover all bases..
    If it wasn't trademarked in that sub-category, other companies/people could register the same name in that sub-category ONLY andrelease their own product with the same name on a 3,5" floppy, perfectly legal...

    Heros of the Storm, sounds EXTREMELY LAME as expansion name... It sounds much more like a game-name, e.g. the official title of the Blizzard AllStars game...

  8. #8
    Why do people need to make new threads for shit that's already outlined in other threads.... Keep it in one place, folks.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    The "computer game disc" part may very well, just be a way to cover all bases..
    If it wasn't trademarked in that sub-category, other companies/people could register the same name in that sub-category ONLY andrelease their own product with the same name on a 3,5" floppy, perfectly legal...

    Heros of the Storm, sounds EXTREMELY LAME as expansion name... It sounds much more like a game-name, e.g. the official title of the Blizzard AllStars game...
    Yep. And the Blizzard All-Stars trademark lists game discs as well.

    http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield...802:t4z294.2.1

    It's Blizzard All-Stars.

  10. #10
    The Blizzard All-Stars text reads the following:

    IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Computer game software, computer game discs, computer game software and related instruction manuals and guides sold together as a unit, downloadable computer game software, computer game software downloadable from a global computer network, downloadable electronic games via the internet and wireless devices, interactive multimedia computer game program
    IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Entertainment services, namely, providing on-line computer games, providing computer games that may be accessed via a global computer network, providing online news and information in the field of computer games
    There is nothing there about mobile devices or tablets. Just wireless devices, which could just as well refer to laptops. It's a very vague term.

    The Heroes of the Storm text mentions mobile phones and tablets, on which you could never play a MOBA at a serious level. Blizzard is very e-sports oriented, and no one would take their MOBA seriously if it was playable on tablet.

    The mobile phones and tablets bit is crucial, as it suggests a feature of a game more than a game - this allows us to scratch All-stars from the list and instead consider WoW features like Pet Battles, which could be played on a phone just fine.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

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  11. #11
    I'll just copy and paste my comment from the Know Your Lore here, as this thread is what lead to me to speculating:

    "Talking about the destruction of Draenor got me thinking. What if Azeroth is at the risk of suffering a similar fate - ripped apart by portals to other worlds? Maybe someone, Azshara perhaps, opens these portals to admit the Burning Legion, but also allowing Alleria and Turalyon to return from whatever planet they've been stuck on. A great storm, holding the portals to these new worlds, could form somewhere in Azeroth's oceans. The aim would be to venture forth into each portal world at a time, stabilising or closing the portals and curbing the Legion's invasion.

    This provides some interesting opportunities. Azshara could play a major role, without actually having to be defeated, partially solving the "joker problem" which was covered here a few weeks ago. It would follow the trend of Mists of Pandaria, allowing a lot of brand new lore whilst also drawing on the Old Lore."
    Disclaimer: No I'm not Alliance. I reserve the right to bat for both factions thank you very much.


  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    I'll just copy and paste my comment from the Know Your Lore here, as this thread is what lead to me to speculating:

    "Talking about the destruction of Draenor got me thinking. What if Azeroth is at the risk of suffering a similar fate - ripped apart by portals to other worlds? Maybe someone, Azshara perhaps, opens these portals to admit the Burning Legion, but also allowing Alleria and Turalyon to return from whatever planet they've been stuck on. A great storm, holding the portals to these new worlds, could form somewhere in Azeroth's oceans. The aim would be to venture forth into each portal world at a time, stabilising or closing the portals and curbing the Legion's invasion.

    This provides some interesting opportunities. Azshara could play a major role, without actually having to be defeated, partially solving the "joker problem" which was covered here a few weeks ago. It would follow the trend of Mists of Pandaria, allowing a lot of brand new lore whilst also drawing on the Old Lore."
    This is a great and perfectly plausible theory.

    Another one could be that Azeroth will be fully ruined by the 'Storm', and we'll have to use the Caverns of Time to stop Azshara from doing it. If memory serves, there is talk on the Timeless Isle of the Bronze Flight's vision being obscured. This would explain why they couldn't warn us in time of this event.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

    Author of: Mount 2.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    This is a great and perfectly plausible theory.

    Another one could be that Azeroth will be fully ruined by the 'Storm', and we'll have to use the Caverns of Time to stop Azshara from doing it. If memory serves, there is talk on the Timeless Isle of the Bronze Flight's vision being obscured. This would explain why they couldn't warn us in time of this event.
    That could be a great final raid for the expansion. So throughout the patch cycle we continually attempt to curb Azeroth's destruction, but to no avail - perhaps with each patch resulting in an old world zone getting destroyed for high level players and providing some new content. Then we finally have to use the CoT to go back. I can see people complaining about Time Travel being used as a Dues ex Machina, but providing the difficulties in doing it where fully established I think it'd be pretty cool, and would certainly tie in all the Timeless Isle stuff.
    Disclaimer: No I'm not Alliance. I reserve the right to bat for both factions thank you very much.


  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    That could be a great final raid for the expansion. So throughout the patch cycle we continually attempt to curb Azeroth's destruction, but to no avail - perhaps with each patch resulting in an old world zone getting destroyed for high level players and providing some new content. Then we finally have to use the CoT to go back. I can see people complaining about Time Travel being used as a Dues ex Machina, but providing the difficulties in doing it where fully established I think it'd be pretty cool, and would certainly tie in all the Timeless Isle stuff.
    I think it could be awesome.

    Sending us forth and back through history to dig up information or change certain events would be cool as well. The Sundering, the destruction of Draenor, etc. Maybe that's how we discover Turalyon's fate, and go in search for him.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

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  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral Bladeface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    The Blizzard All-Stars text reads the following:



    There is nothing there about mobile devices or tablets. Just wireless devices, which could just as well refer to laptops. It's a very vague term.

    The Heroes of the Storm text mentions mobile phones and tablets, on which you could never play a MOBA at a serious level. Blizzard is very e-sports oriented, and no one would take their MOBA seriously if it was playable on tablet.

    The mobile phones and tablets bit is crucial, as it suggests a feature of a game more than a game - this allows us to scratch All-stars from the list and instead consider WoW features like Pet Battles, which could be played on a phone just fine.
    And you think you can play wow on a smart phone or tablet? are you high?
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  16. #16
    The Lightbringer UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    I'll just copy and paste my comment from the Know Your Lore here, as this thread is what lead to me to speculating:

    "Talking about the destruction of Draenor got me thinking. What if Azeroth is at the risk of suffering a similar fate - ripped apart by portals to other worlds? Maybe someone, Azshara perhaps, opens these portals to admit the Burning Legion, but also allowing Alleria and Turalyon to return from whatever planet they've been stuck on. A great storm, holding the portals to these new worlds, could form somewhere in Azeroth's oceans. The aim would be to venture forth into each portal world at a time, stabilising or closing the portals and curbing the Legion's invasion.

    This provides some interesting opportunities. Azshara could play a major role, without actually having to be defeated, partially solving the "joker problem" which was covered here a few weeks ago. It would follow the trend of Mists of Pandaria, allowing a lot of brand new lore whilst also drawing on the Old Lore."
    This falls down when you mention Azshara trying to summon the Legion. She hasn't had any ties with them for 10,000 years and is now a servant of the Old Gods. She wouldn't be sat underwater just making portals to summon the Burning Legion.

    With regards to the OP: The trademark, despite what you're saying, is more likely just a rebranding of the Blizzard All-Stars title. What the first trademark says is irrelevant at this point. This updated trademark is exactly that; updated. It's just been updated to cover all the bases, likely because they'll be showing some stuff at BlizzCon and maybe even getting the beta rolling soon after. That's all.

    Rarely updated...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bladeface View Post
    And you think you can play wow on a smart phone or tablet? are you high?
    If you read my post, you will see that my conclusion was not that you'll play WoW on a phone, but that the phones and tablets bit might refer to a feature of a game rather than a game.

    We know Pet Battles is big, and we know WoW uses mobile apps for several features. I'd say it is far more likely that the Pet battle system will see a fully fleshed out app you can bring with you and play on the bus, rather than that they are making All-Stars for phones and tablets.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post

    With regards to the OP: The trademark, despite what you're saying, is basically just a rebranding of the Blizzard All-Stars title. What the first trademark says is irrelevant at this point. This updated trademark is exactly that; updated. It's just been updated to cover all the bases, likely because they'll be showing some stuff at BlizzCon and maybe even getting the beta rolling soon after. That's all.
    So how do you explain the bit about mobile and tablets? You can't play a MOBA on those. You need hotkeys, quick reactions, and preferably big screens. While mobiles and tablets are very relevant today, they can't support such gameplay yet.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

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  18. #18
    The Lightbringer UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    So how do you explain the bit about mobile and tablets? You can't play a MOBA on those. You need hotkeys, quick reactions, and preferably big screens. While mobiles and tablets are very relevant today, they can't support such gameplay yet.
    Well, we have no idea what kind of MOBA Blizzard are going for, do we? I don't remember ever seeing anything from their version of it. As far as we know, they may very well be making something like Smite, which I reckon could probably be played on a good enough tablet if they can get the controls down. But it could play in any number of ways. Smartphones are basically just bundled in with tablets when applying for a trademark.

    Or, it could be, as you've said, an app of some kind that ties in with the game. There is no reason they couldn't have an app for spectating or something.

    But, you never know. I'm probably completely wrong and it is the next WoW expansion. I just think that a WoW expansion with the same abbreviation as a SC2 expansion is a little silly and potentially confusing to people.

    Then again, didn't the WoTLK trademark show up about a month or so before BlizzCon?

    Rarely updated...

  19. #19
    This tells us that the section about mobiles and handheld devices in the Goods and Services description for Heroes of the Storm is more likely meant for a feature in a game, not for a game itself.
    how does this rule out blizzard all-stars?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Well, we have no idea what kind of MOBA Blizzard are going for, do we? I don't remember ever seeing anything from their version of it. As far as we know, they may very well be making something like Smite, which I reckon could probably be played on a good enough tablet if they can get the controls down. But it could play in any number of ways. Smartphones are basically just bundled in with tablets when applying for a trademark.

    Or, it could be, as you've said, an app of some kind that ties in with the game. There is no reason they couldn't have an app for spectating or something.

    But, you never know. I'm probably completely wrong and it is the next WoW expansion. I just think that a WoW expansion with the same abbreviation as a SC2 expansion is a little silly and potentially confusing to people.

    Then again, didn't the WoTLK trademark show up about a month or so before BlizzCon?
    Blizzard is highly focused on the competitive e-sports scene. They will want to offer the game to professional tournaments, and the like.

    So I don't think it'll be a game casual enough for tablets and phones.

    Pet Battles, on the other hand, makes perfect sense on those devices. You require, what, three action buttons? It's turn-based, too, isn't it?

    Anyway, what this particular piece of evidence proves is that HotS can without doubt be the WoW expansion, and that it is unlikely to refer to All-Stars. All-Stars might use a mobile app for score boards and stuff, but I think it's unlikely to be a main feature of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heenk View Post
    how does this rule out blizzard all-stars?
    People have been arguing that because it includes mobiles and tablets, it is more likely to be for All-Stars than WoW. What I'm saying is that e-sports oriented MOBAs can't really do well on tablets and phones, while we already know WoW has a lot of stuff which could.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

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