View Poll Results: Thoughts?

Voters
949. You may not vote on this poll
  • Prefer my characters getting weaker

    336 35.41%
  • Doesn't matter either way

    326 34.35%
  • Prefer my characters getting stronger

    287 30.24%
Page 24 of 37 FirstFirst ...
14
22
23
24
25
26
34
... LastLast
  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by PetersenIII View Post
    Fucking with game mechanics like they're going to do will have bugs AND ridiculous imbalances.
    The item squish will REDUCE the ridiculous imbalances between low and high level content. This is a GOOD THING.

    The garment rending over this issue has gone way beyond the bounds of sanity. It's incredibly ridiculous, even by the standards of gaming QQ.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Even on high pop servers, the bandwidth of text isn't going to be all that high. It's incredibly obtrusive, of course.
    A single message has more bytes than 6-7 variables. How many messages are there per sec?

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    A single message has more bytes than 6-7 variables. How many messages are there per sec?
    In combat, 25 people will potentially be performing multiple actions per second (especially with dots, hots, cleaves, and AoE effects.) Anything involving healing or damage will require expansion of the data format unless a squish occurs. Each individual act of damage/healing from one entity to another will involve a separate chunk of data. You will notice recent tuning where they've been reformulating spells to do a smaller number of actions, each with a larger effect? It's because they're up against performance limits.

    There must also be a constant stream of packets reporting the changes in position of each character, although that's not affected by the squish.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  4. #464
    I don't know why I always want to follow stat squish threads. Everyone always argues over the same boring parts, on what a stat squish can do now, or how a stat squish can go wrong.

    No one seems to discuss how to make a stat squish go right if it were to happen.

    My belief is that there are two main things to consider:
    1) Player stats should grow less exponentially
    2) Players should still grow exponentially compared to enemies

    If we don't do #1, squishing is a weak bandaid fix. We could cut everything by 90% and then still do 150k DPS by the end of next expansion (so we might need another squish), and low levels would be strange.
    If we don't do #2, everyone who does old content gets nerfed.

    Anyone care to find solutions to address both of these at the same time? You'll probably have to get creative.

  5. #465
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Liverpool, Merseyside
    Posts
    4,188
    "Prefer my characters getting weaker
    Doesn't matter either way
    Prefer my characters getting stronger"

    What an AWFUL poll, honestly what's the point if you're going to completely scew the options to agree with your point?

    It's like making a poll about will the next expansion be the Emerald dream and the options being "yes" or "I enjoy killing children". It serves absolutely no purpose.

    Anyway i'm happy with a stat squish, i'm sick of huge numbers all the time and it gets difficult to tell them difference between numbers past a certain point.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    In combat, 25 people will potentially be performing multiple actions per second (especially with dots, hots, cleaves, and AoE effects.) Anything involving healing or damage will require expansion of the data format unless a squish occurs. Each individual act of damage/healing from one entity to another will involve a separate chunk of data. You will notice recent tuning where they've been reformulating spells to do a smaller number of actions, each with a larger effect? It's because they're up against performance limits.

    There must also be a constant stream of packets reporting the changes in position of each character, although that's not affected by the squish.
    This is the thing you don't understand, the only thing that would have its data type changed would be the HP, nothing else.

    You are acting like HP uses 80% of WoW's bandwidth.

  7. #467
    Completely unnecessary change unless Blizzard is going to run into some sort of programming difficulties otherwise... Personally I enjoy the absurd numbers.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    This is the thing you don't understand, the only thing that would have its data type changed would be the HP, nothing else.

    You are acting like HP uses 80% of WoW's bandwidth.
    Now, I'm not sure in what language WoW is coded in, but I'm fairly sure ALL damage numbers would need to be converted to 64 bit int at some point in the server calculations. Even if the damage values fit within 32 bit integers.
    Shahad , Kevkul , Shaithan
    <Magdalena's pet>

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevkul View Post
    Now, I'm not sure in what language WoW is coded in, but I'm fairly sure ALL damage numbers would need to be converted to 64 bit int at some point in the server calculations. Even if the damage values fit within 32 bit integers.
    What's the highest damage that you have ever seen? Let's say 5 million.

    Still far far away from the overflow for a 32 signed integer. No, if they fit perfectly, why would you change it?

    HP on the other hand will have to be 64.

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    What's the highest damage that you have ever seen? Let's say 5 million.

    Still far far away from the overflow for a 32 signed integer. No, if they fit perfectly, why would you change it?

    HP on the other hand will have to be 64.
    No, I mean that the language might require the damage to be stored in 64 bit integers so it can do calculations with it on the HP.
    Shahad , Kevkul , Shaithan
    <Magdalena's pet>

  11. #471
    I enjoyed easily readable numbers. Doesn't matter, It's all % based so everything will remain the same. learn to math.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevkul View Post
    No, I mean that the language might require the damage to be stored in 64 bit integers so it can do calculations with it on the HP.
    It's definitly (spelling?) C++.

    Because:

    There are already a lot of stuffs done in C++ for games.

    Most games are developed in C++ so it's easier to find people to work.

    Access I/O.

    Memory management.

    Easy to put in another platforms.

    If you need an optimized code you can write an optimized code in assembly.

    Easy to access the hardware.

    Actually I really can't imagine another language to use if you wanna develop a serious game for Windows (maybe Pascal?).

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by Defaulty View Post
    I enjoyed easily readable numbers. Doesn't matter, It's all % based so everything will remain the same. learn to math.
    You should do this yourself. And while you're at it learn to think.

    What happens if you take 30% off a level 1? They end up with stats that are .005 doing .012 damage to an enemy with .79 hp. Still sound good? Is it still an easily readable number because I certainly don't think so.

    Signature Created by Sonridor

  14. #474
    If they go through with this, and with the need to cater to the more casual crowd a little more with each expansion, they may as well do it seriously, but if I'm not over 1m hp and 500k dps when Sargeras rolls around, then they will have failed.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    You should do this yourself. And while you're at it learn to think.

    What happens if you take 30% off a level 1? They end up with stats that are .005 doing .012 damage to an enemy with .79 hp. Still sound good? Is it still an easily readable number because I certainly don't think so.
    Okay, how many times do I have to tell you that 1-60 keeps it's linear progression?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    It's definitly (spelling?) C++.

    Because:

    There are already a lot of stuffs done in C++ for games.

    Most games are developed in C++ so it's easier to find people to work.

    Access I/O.

    Memory management.

    Easy to put in another platforms.

    If you need an optimized code you can write an optimized code in assembly.

    Easy to access the hardware.

    Actually I really can't imagine another language to use if you wanna develop a serious game for Windows (maybe Pascal?).
    It's probably C++, I agree. But I'm no expert in any C language. It's all conjecture.
    Shahad , Kevkul , Shaithan
    <Magdalena's pet>

  16. #476
    My character is not going to become significantly weaker in proportion to other players and NPCs. Numbers will become more manageable.

    The exponential scaling in this game is getting out of hand. 1 mil+ health on player characters is ridiculous when you start with a few hundred.

    Each expansion is going to keep its linear progression, it's just going to be that the exponential increase from outdated tiers is essentially going to be pruned. Players levels 1-59 should see no change whatsoever, I would expect.

  17. #477
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Liverpool, Merseyside
    Posts
    4,188
    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    You should do this yourself. And while you're at it learn to think.

    What happens if you take 30% off a level 1? They end up with stats that are .005 doing .012 damage to an enemy with .79 hp. Still sound good? Is it still an easily readable number because I certainly don't think so.
    Honestly do people genuinely think things like this are going to happen?

    Or is it just mindless scare mongering by people who look for an excuse to get angry at blizzard or the game.

    Same as people STILL bringing up "I can't solo old content" when Blizz said the major thing they wanted to not affect was going back to do old content

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by PetersenIII View Post
    This is the part that gets me. No matter how many times you explain the laws of mathematics to people, irreverent of the 10 years of history of Blizzard fucking up simple, simple things, these willfully ignorant people will defend to the "item squish" to the bitter end.
    You're confusing mathematics with statistics. They are not the same thing.

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by Braindwen View Post
    That isn't what's happening, though.

    The idea is that item levels don't need to increase (as much, if at all) between raid tiers of previous expansions. So, for example, you'd go from 200->220 when switching from wrath to cata instead of 200->272. I'd go from being multiple hundreds of ilvl above a lvl 80 mob to being probably 50-100 or so above it, and from that it's going to be massively more powerful compared to me than it was before. Of course, for a normal quest mob that'd just mean it might not die to a single melee swing, but the point still remains that the power jump from lvl 80 to lvl 90 (or anything after lvl 60, really) gets smaller.

    And on a final note, future expansions after the squish would still have the huge ilvl jumps between tiers because Blizz likes that design: it's fun to get noticeably more powerful while raiding. So don't expect this to fix anything like 2 items capping your hit, crit capping, etc. Those'll all happen just the same.
    Your example still doesn't address the fact that they've said they would be adjusting stats of mobs as well, though.

    And where is the Blizzard post detailing how exactly the stat squish will go into place, since you're stating "that isn't what's happening"? I haven't seen the graph and apparent post people are referring to that Blizzard apparently released detailing how they will go about doing this.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  20. #480
    Legendary! Asmekiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Maybe over there
    Posts
    6,118
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Your example still doesn't address the fact that they've said they would be adjusting stats of mobs as well, though.

    And where is the Blizzard post detailing how exactly the stat squish will go into place, since you're stating "that isn't what's happening"? I haven't seen the graph and apparent post people are referring to that Blizzard apparently released detailing how they will go about doing this.
    .. It has been linked to you before.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •