Anyone Not Looking Forward to Stat Squish?

[Asmekiel]

Your example still doesn't address the fact that they've said they would be adjusting stats of mobs as well, though.

And where is the Blizzard post detailing how exactly the stat squish will go into place, since you're stating "that isn't what's happening"? I haven't seen the graph and apparent post people are referring to that Blizzard apparently released detailing how they will go about doing this.

.. It has been linked to you before.

[Braindwen]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3885585

With that in mind, we could go back and compress the big item level increases that occur at level 60, 70, 80 and 85. The Mists of Pandaria gear would still grow exponentially from patch to patch, but the baselines would be a lot lower.

Bear in mind that the above quote was for the planned squish at the start of MoP. Simply add 90 to the list of levels and change "Mists of Pandaria" to the next expansion and it's a valid idea for the start of next expac.

They could very well change their minds on what to do, but that idea makes a lot of sense for what they plan to do (WAY more than a % reduction, anything below like 50-60% would be overcome within a tier or two).

That it isn't required reading before posting in item squish threads is a little annoying. Would love it to get rid of all of the "they'll just reduce everything by x%!" lunacy.

[Faroth]

.. It has been linked to you before.

Yeah, I missed it with the 10 page increase. Just went back and saw the link...

Didn't realize we're just flipping out over speculation from the discussion pre-MoP from 2 YEARS AGO. I'll wait until there's actual, real, information on what they're considering and settling on doing.

I guess I just still note this:
"In other words, your Fireball will still do the same percentage damage to a player or a creature that it does today, but the number would be smaller."

But whatever, the numbers are ridiculous and billions of HP and thousands of +stats are simply out of hand. I'll wait to see what they discuss as the actual consideration for the next expansion instead of screaming that the sky is falling over a blog from pre-MoP.

[Deleted]

How do you feel about that? Are you alright with it, or do you prefer getting even stronger next expansion?

No, I think no matter how hard Blizzard tries to fix all the problems when introducing the item squish there will still be issues. People WILL lose the ability to solo certain content, and I think that only lowers the replayability of the game. I'd rather see the megadamage option implemented, as it continues the trend of getting stronger while making combat visually easier to understand.

[Durandro]

Okay, how many times do I have to tell you that 1-60 keeps it's linear progression?

Doesn't matter how many times you tell people something, if they don't want to believe it they won't. Especially if it destroys their argument.

I'd be in favour of overhauling old content item level increases.

Vanilla can stay around 100 ilevel max (infact I think only one item has this from that period).
TBC can have up to 150 ilevel (a minor shrink, Sunwell gear is 164).
Wrath can have up to 200 ilevel (a much more significant shrink, this is when enemy health and damage numbers need more serious modification)
Cata can have up to 250 ilevel (less then ICC gear!)
Mists can have up to 300 ilevel (almost halved from what we have now).
Next expansion can have up to 350 ilevel.

Its not a perfect fix since we'll hit the same problem by expansion 10. But I think it'll be pretty good. We'll still be doing about 20k dps currently with those gear levels!

[NightZero88]

Honestly do people genuinely think things like this are going to happen?

Or is it just mindless scare mongering by people who look for an excuse to get angry at blizzard or the game.

Same as people STILL bringing up "I can't solo old content" when Blizz said the major thing they wanted to not affect was going back to do old content

Ok, so they are not going to do this. The only other way of doing a squish then means that a level 90 is weaker as compared to any other level besides 90. That means it WILL affect soloing instances. It WILL affect world PvP. And it WILL go against them saying everything would stay the same. I don't know why you people are still confused by this. The math is right in front of your face. The bandaid fix will potentially address instances the issue here will be that a level 83 will have a different raid buff than a 90 and if both enter together things will just be wonky. Additionally what about things like world PvP and NPCs in the world?

[Thyranne]

Doesn't matter how many times you tell people something, if they don't want to believe it they won't. Especially if it destroys their argument.

I'd be in favour of overhauling old content item level increases.

Vanilla can stay around 100 ilevel max (infact I think only one item has this from that period).
TBC can have up to 150 ilevel (a minor shrink, Sunwell gear is 164).
Wrath can have up to 200 ilevel (a much more significant shrink, this is when enemy health and damage numbers need more serious modification)
Cata can have up to 250 ilevel (less then ICC gear!)
Mists can have up to 300 ilevel (almost halved from what we have now).
Next expansion can have up to 350 ilevel.

Its not a perfect fix since we'll hit the same problem by expansion 10. But I think it'll be pretty good. We'll still be doing about 20k dps currently with those gear levels!

They already said if they do squish the current expansion would keep an exponential growth.

[wych]

Ok, so they are not going to do this. The only other way of doing a squish then means that a level 90 is weaker as compared to any other level besides 90. That means it WILL affect soloing instances. It WILL affect world PvP. And it WILL go against them saying everything would stay the same. I don't know why you people are still confused by this. The math is right in front of your face. The bandaid fix will potentially address instances the issue here will be that a level 83 will have a different raid buff than a 90 and if both enter together things will just be wonky. Additionally what about things like world PvP and NPCs in the world?

No it won't, they've stated as much themselves.

Just because you can't come up with a solution does not mean one does not exist.

It's like a person living in 1230 saying "You CAN'T send messages across the country (world) instantly, you CAN'T capture motion and replay it to people". Just because a solution hasn't been comprehended by them doesn't mean it's not possible for somebody with a better or more commited mind.

Bottom line, Blizzard have said this will not affect old content and until you can prove otherwise or show you've come up with every possible solution then claiming otherwise is pointless scare mongering.

[Braindwen]

Didn't realize we're just flipping out over speculation from the discussion pre-MoP from 2 YEARS AGO. I'll wait until there's actual, real, information on what they're considering and settling on doing.

... Speculation.
From blizzard.
About something they actually tested internally using that.
Sure...

And while the part you quoted is in fact correct for equal-level stuff, it's very easy to show that it won't be the case against lower-level stuff if the game changes that way. Unless, of course, they make it so lower levels are 1-shotting stuff their level . I frankly would rather they not waste their time squishing the game, then un-squishing it for old stuff, so without creating a pointless amount of extra work on top of a mostly pointless large amount of work it would affect that.

[Lucetia]

Without going into the realm of opinion or the insipid blatant fallacy that is "hardware limitations", why exactly is it needed? Can you explain to me that without a reasonable doubt that we somehow need a stat squish in order for the game to be better in some possible way?

Short answer: We don't.
Long answer: There is no real reason.

People just want a squish so that numbers seem smaller for whatever reason. I think they also are hoping it'll fix World PvP to some extent so lower levels aren't 1 shotted by 90's though if everything is scaled down the way they say it'll still happen. Just instead of being hit for 50k they'll get hit for 500 and still die.

[Shaiandra]

Let's try revisiting the core question.

Do you think WoW could benefit from having smaller numbers?

There are two groups that argue yes:
Y1) Those who subjectively don't like huge numbers
Y2) Those that believe larger numbers will lead to computational and/or bandwidth problems

There are two groups that argue no:
N1) Those that subjectively like huge numbers
N2) Those that believe it will be impossible to reduce numbers without killing their ability to solo old content

For those in N2... have you tried thinking of how it might be possible, rather than just constantly arguing that it's not possible?

[NightZero88]

No it won't, they've stated as much themselves.

Just because you can't come up with a solution does not mean one does not exist.

It's like a person living in 1230 saying "You CAN'T send messages across the country (world) instantly, you CAN'T capture motion and replay it to people". Just because a solution hasn't been comprehended by them doesn't mean it's not possible for somebody with a better or more commited mind.

Bottom line, Blizzard have said this will not affect old content and until you can prove otherwise or show you've come up with every possible solution then claiming otherwise is pointless scare mongering.

Let's look at the facts. First we see a graph provided by GC himself that shows the way they were thinking about doing an item squish. Just looking at that graph you will see the higher your level the bigger your nerf. Second they've talked about implementing an instance buff to keep scaling the same which further proves their squish will affect people differently. Finally we see that Blizz has never in the entire history of this game produced something that worked correctly upon release. So sure, you go ahead and blindly and mindlessly follow Blizz and continue to say they can do no wrong. I'll be over here in the real world not doing that.

[Pull My Finger]

No, I think no matter how hard Blizzard tries to fix all the problems when introducing the item squish there will still be issues. People WILL lose the ability to solo certain content

Why do people keep insisting on this, despite the fact that it's been said over and over again that it wouldn't change anything? What could you possibly base that on? Could it be stubborn naysaying it its most blatant form?

[wych]

Short answer: We don't.
Long answer: There is no real reason.

People just want a squish so that numbers seem smaller for whatever reason. I think they also are hoping it'll fix World PvP to some extent so lower levels aren't 1 shotted by 90's though if everything is scaled down the way they say it'll still happen. Just instead of being hit for 50k they'll get hit for 500 and still die.

The point is numbers start to lose their impact at a higher level.

Going from 600 to 700 is pretty obvious, but when you start seeing 167239 and 158218, 198273 183764 9084 flashing up on your screen you start to lose the sense of improvement, as going up 1000 DPS really means very little and at times it can be hard to tell the difference on numbers flashing up on your screen at such large values.

- - - Updated - - -

Let's look at the facts. First we see a graph provided by GC himself that shows the way they were thinking about doing an item squish. Just looking at that graph you will see the higher your level the bigger your nerf. Second they've talked about implementing an instance buff to keep scaling the same which further proves their squish will affect people differently. Finally we see that Blizz has never in the entire history of this game produced something that worked correctly upon release. So sure, you go ahead and blindly and mindlessly follow Blizz and continue to say they can do no wrong. I'll be over here in the real world not doing that.

So basically it's just a whine because you don't like/trust Blizzard.

The main point they have consistently made is that it won't affect ability to solo old content, if you still want to mindlessly whine and bitch despite that then be my guest, i'm done with this thread before it turns into a bunch of ex-players talking about how bad the game is and how Blizzard are the anti-christ.

[Revak]

As long as it doesn't affect my ability to solo old content, I give a grand total of 0 shits.

^This X a billion^

Soloing old content is one of the main reasons I play the game. It should get easier to do with every xpack. As long as that continues to be so I don't care about the stat squish.

[Thyranne]

Let's look at the facts. First we see a graph provided by GC himself that shows the way they were thinking about doing an item squish. Just looking at that graph you will see the higher your level the bigger your nerf. Second they've talked about implementing an instance buff to keep scaling the same which further proves their squish will affect people differently. Finally we see that Blizz has never in the entire history of this game produced something that worked correctly upon release. So sure, you go ahead and blindly and mindlessly follow Blizz and continue to say they can do no wrong. I'll be over here in the real world not doing that.

Don't forget that the buff won't be active outside dungeons and raids.

The point is numbers start to lose their impact at a higher level.

Going from 600 to 700 is pretty obvious, but when you start seeing 167239 and 158218, 198273 183764 9084 flashing up on your screen you start to lose the sense of improvement, as going up 1000 DPS really means very little and at times it can be hard to tell the difference on numbers flashing up on your screen at such large values.

How about 167k and 158k, 198k, 183k, 9k?

[NightZero88]

Why do people keep insisting on this, despite the fact that it's been said over and over again that it wouldn't change anything? What could you possibly base that on? Could it be stubborn naysaying it its most blatant form?

No its because the solution they've proposed (Ghostcrawler himself by the way) shows in graph form that it WILL affect it despite them saying it won't.

So basically it's just a whine because you don't like/trust Blizzard.

You are correct I don't trust Blizz and I have a good reason not too. And I'm not whining, I'm stating with factual backing that the squish will cause problems. You're just saying well Blizz said it won't so clearly it'll be perfect! You have no backing aside from Blizz saying so, I am using Blizz's very own graph and words from GC.

The main point they have consistently made is that it won't affect ability to solo old content, if you still want to mindlessly whine and bitch despite that then be my guest, i'm done with this thread before it turns into a bunch of ex-players talking about how bad the game is and how Blizzard are the anti-christ.

Don't let the doorknob hit you where the good lord split ya. You've contributed nothing to this thread and have been wrong on every point. Your only argument in favor of the squish is: Well Blizz said so. Meanwhile we offer graphs, Blue posts and legitimate concerns. Good riddance I say.

[Asmekiel]

The point is numbers start to lose their impact at a higher level.

Going from 600 to 700 is pretty obvious, but when you start seeing 167239 and 158218, 198273 183764 9084 flashing up on your screen you start to lose the sense of improvement, as going up 1000 DPS really means very little and at times it can be hard to tell the difference on numbers flashing up on your screen at such large values.

Going from 600,000 to 700,000 is also pretty obvious.

[Pull My Finger]

No its because the solution they've proposed (Ghostcrawler himself by the way) shows in graph form that it WILL affect it despite them saying it won't.

I see sorry attempts at making and interpreting "graphs" on MMO Champ every day. Of course, the geniuses among the player base can easily see all the things the amateur number crunchers in the professional industry don't have a grasp of. Yeah.

[NightZero88]

I see sorry attempts at making and interpreting "graphs" on MMO Champ every day. Of course, the geniuses among the player base can easily see all the things the amateur number crunchers in the professional industry don't have a grasp of. Yeah.

Cute. Your issue though is the graph was produced by Blizz and it is fairly easy to interpret a graph. Maybe you didn't learn how to read a graph in school but I did.