Anyone Not Looking Forward to Stat Squish?

[Asmekiel]

That's fine for old raids but if you need to go back in the world to grind mobs for faction rep, achieves, or quests... that buff won't help you. Just all around more time to waste.

Actually, no. That's not fine. That's just a fundamental flaw in the current item squish idea. "Let's undo it when you enter older content".

[Marema]

Numbers are meaningless unless you live in a basement and BIG NUMBERS is your only source of self worth.

Squish it all; I could care less. I'm sure I'll still have fun playing, just like I did back in vanilla with 'small' numbers.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

I wouldn't say I'm not looking forward to it so much as I'm wary of it. I worry they're gonna manage to botch it and completely screw soloing old content. I realize that in theory it shouldn't affect anything but the size of the numbers, but theory can be very different from practice. If they manage to pull it off correctly I don't care if they do it or don't, so I voted doesn't matter.

[Grogo]

Actually, we should start a poll to take away you starting a poll ever again MistsofBoredom .

[Cows For Life]

THEY AREN'T SQUISHING YOUR DAMAGE DIRECTLY. Got that? Good.
They are squishing the item levels of past raid gear. Your stats. It means your damage goes down, sure. But they aren't just dividing your damage by 100. The mega damage solution is just altering the display. You still do 1345670 damage hits, it's just rounded by the display. The squish actually lowers your stats.


I already showed the graph. 1-60 keeps it's linear gear progression. Which doesn't matter in the least.


Am I the only one who's read the blog? It clearly states that they plan on compressing the huge growths of endgame gear that happens at level 60, 70, 80 and 85 (and presumably 90 since the blog was released before MoP). Here's a quote, clear as day: " Very few players notice or care how much of an upgrade the Black Temple loot is over the Serpentshrine Cavern loot when their characters are level 80" that illustrates that very point.


Please, bother to actually read the Dev Watercooler on the issue: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3885585

You might have noticed that the ilevel growth at the end of each expansion isn't the same amount for all of them. Some are much larger than the others. Why do you think people have been saying you're wrong over and over? That the relative power between different levels (player AND npc) will change.

[Shahad]

You make me lol. You say we won't be any weaker then 3 lines later say it doesn't matter that you're weaker because it's not that much of a difference.

Won't be functionally weaker, no. When all's said and done you'll still be one shotting lowbies.

[Asmekiel]

But when it will be "squished" - that's when numbers will lose their meaning. They no longer show progression

This pretty much. If you take the graph and draw MoP gear and it's relative squish on it, we'd end up somewhere around Ulduar levels. That's 1,5 current expansions worth of gear that would need to be spread out over 4. Gear will hardly matter anymore, unless they buff the stats per ilvl except that would be the opposite of what the squish is supposed to do. Remember people clearing Naxx in Sunwell gear? Make that ICC after the squish.

[NightZero88]

Won't be functionally weaker, no. When all's said and done you'll still be one shotting lowbies.

Will be functionally weaker compared to other levels yes. I will still be one shooting low level players you're right but not by as much which is the point. And the level 85 that never stood a chance against my 90? Well, the gap will be much smaller now and maybe they will. That will certainly enrage a lot of people on PvP realms.

[Cows For Life]

Doesn't matter how many times you tell people something, if they don't want to believe it they won't. Especially if it destroys their argument.

I'd be in favour of overhauling old content item level increases.

Vanilla can stay around 100 ilevel max (infact I think only one item has this from that period).
TBC can have up to 150 ilevel (a minor shrink, Sunwell gear is 164).
Wrath can have up to 200 ilevel (a much more significant shrink, this is when enemy health and damage numbers need more serious modification)
Cata can have up to 250 ilevel (less then ICC gear!)
Mists can have up to 300 ilevel (almost halved from what we have now).
Next expansion can have up to 350 ilevel.

Its not a perfect fix since we'll hit the same problem by expansion 10. But I think it'll be pretty good. We'll still be doing about 20k dps currently with those gear levels!

Chopping a small amount of ilevel is just a half assed half measure. Why would they would go through the trouble of that and not go all the way? It just postpones the problem for one expansion.

[finchna]

for all of you who can't fathom or deal with numbers like 1,000,000 health or 300K dps because their too big, please take a look at how many cells there are in the human body or any or many other examples of really big numbers that are reality (vs. WoW's 01010101) and know that 1,000,000 or 100,000,000 are actually not so big in the greater scheme of things.

Also, if WoW squishes current content what happens to old content? To keep old content aligned with current content squishing would the old content or low level content end up with decimal place health and dmg? How do you squish something with 1 or 50 or 100 health when you squish current content by a factor of 3 or 4 or 5?

[Shahad]

Will be functionally weaker compared to other levels yes. I will still be one shooting low level players you're right but not by as much which is the point. And the level 85 that never stood a chance against my 90? Well, the gap will be much smaller now and maybe they will. That will certainly enrage a lot of people on PvP realms.

So what if your hits are less overkill against level 70s? Please explain to me how that could make any difference at all, ever?

The level 85 won't stand more of a chance. In fact they'll stand less of a chance if you use the Cata and Wrath numbers, which are our only examples of how they would handle the squish with a current expansion and it's predecessor.

[Deleted]

This pretty much. If you take the graph and draw MoP gear and it's relative squish on it, we'd end up somewhere around Ulduar levels. That's 1,5 current expansions worth of gear that would need to be spread out over 4. Gear will hardly matter anymore, unless they buff the stats per ilvl except that would be the opposite of what the squish is supposed to do. Remember people clearing Naxx in Sunwell gear? Make that ICC after the squish.

Why is it wrong that last expansions set bonuses are still good for the entry raid in new expansion? Its only interesting to have that. Hate the new expansions where the first greens given from helping in some gardening stomp your hard-earned epics dropped from the beasts of deepest hells.

[Asmekiel]

Why is it wrong that last expansions set bonuses are still good for the entry raid in new expansion? Its only interesting to have that. Hate the new expansions where the first greens given from helping in some gardening stomp your hard-earned epics dropped from the beasts of deepest hells.

Entry raid? ICC is hardly the first raid of WotLK. Besides, upgrades should feel like upgrades. If you can go 2-3 tiers without a single upgrade and still top DPS, there's something wrong. And that's my view on it. Blizzard's view is that they want upgrades from tier to tier are meaningful and that you don't use last expansions gear for the first raid of the new expansion.

[NightZero88]

So what if your hits are less overkill against level 70s? Please explain to me how that could make any difference at all, ever?

It might not against big level differences like 70 against 90 but it very well might as an 85 against a 90 and especially as an 89 against a 90.

The level 85 won't stand more of a chance. In fact they'll stand less of a chance if you use the Cata and Wrath numbers, which are our only examples of how they would handle the squish with a current expansion and it's predecessor.

You haven't been reading most of this thread have you? Ok, I'll explain it again. In order for this squish to work a level 90 needs to be squished by a greater amount than a level 80 because of the way gear has increased exponentially as the game has progressed. Because of this when the squish occurs a level 90 will still be the same against another level 90. However, a level 90 will not be as strong against a level 80 as compared to before the squish because of the different rates that the items were squished.

[Osmeric]

Bandaid fix. What about when a level 90 and a level 84 walk into the same raid. Will they each get a different level of buff? Because that would just be odd.

It would be odd, because it would ... replicate the existing power difference? Why is the existing pre-squish difference not also odd? It's the same thing!

It is a legitimate concern. Maybe you don't believe so but for some people this is important. We may as well just remove PvP servers while we're at it since we don't really care about them right?

No, it's an illegitimate, even dishonest, concern. You're a griefer, right?

You're welcome to your opinion. It's wrong but you're welcome to it.

No, I'm right. The fuming and silliness from your side confirms it.

[Deleted]

Anyone who disagrees with his move from Blizzard is actually an idiot. Please dont comment about about how am wrong because am not. I wont read it so dont waste your time. You've read my point and thats all that matters

[The Penguin]

Now that I'm finished with ICC25, I am completely fine with a item squish. I was worried I would never finish Shadowmourne if such a feature occurred.

[Osmeric]

It might not against big level differences like 70 against 90 but it very well might as an 85 against a 90 and especially as an 89 against a 90.

And this is a good thing.

[Wyrt]

I really don't understand why it's an issue.

[Shahad]

You haven't been reading most of this thread have you? Ok, I'll explain it again. In order for this squish to work a level 90 needs to be squished by a greater amount than a level 80 because of the way gear has increased exponentially as the game has progressed. Because of this when the squish occurs a level 90 will still be the same against another level 90. However, a level 90 will not be as strong against a level 80 as compared to before the squish because of the different rates that the items were squished.

And you haven't looked at the graph. It shows Cata being squished less than Wrath. Because it was the current expansion at the time.