1. #1

    Heart of the Wild vs Nature's Vigil?

    I've been looking around on top parses, well known guilds and about 99% of the moonkin's I see
    are using Heart of the Wild over Nature's Vigil and I'm pretty clueless why. My druid is about
    565 iLvl equip so I'd say I have a good ammount of Intellect and I am only getting MAYBE
    100-300 DPS along with the 6% Stam.

    Are they taking HotW for that ~300 DPS increase over millions of healing from Nature's Vigil?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Cylus View Post
    I've been looking around on top parses, well known guilds and about 99% of the moonkin's I see
    are using Heart of the Wild over Nature's Vigil and I'm pretty clueless why. My druid is about
    565 iLvl equip so I'd say I have a good ammount of Intellect and I am only getting MAYBE
    100-300 DPS along with the 6% Stam.

    Are they taking HotW for that ~300 DPS increase over millions of healing from Nature's Vigil?
    with ur itemslevl it's better scaling with your gear for heart and there's the utility offer as well. unless entire figt is healer througout its then maybe vigil for heals ,otherwhere heart better damage

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Cylus View Post
    My druid is about
    565 iLvl equip so I'd say I have a good ammount of Intellect and I am only getting MAYBE
    100-300 DPS along with the 6% Stam.
    6% intellect is 100-300 dps?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by inferior2 View Post
    6% intellect is 100-300 dps?
    u wot bruv

  5. #5
    You first have to look if it's 25 man or 10 man!
    If you look at the top in 10 man, you see a lot going with NV.
    NV in 10 man is a lot stronger than in 25 man, because there you have xy classes who are rolling passive heal talents (e.g. guidance etc.).

    It really depends on the fight. If the HotW tranq is directly needed, than go HotW.
    In 99 % of cases you will just do HotW + tranq and maybe 1 or 2 rejuvenations.

    We start heroic progress this week on 10 man. I think I will most of the time roll NV, but I'm not sure yet.

    NV is very smart to pick. 1/3 of the fight you are able to heal and damage.

  6. #6
    Fight specific. Who cares if you're doing a lot of healing if it isn't necessary? HotW gives a great source of utility.

  7. #7
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cylus View Post
    I've been looking around on top parses, well known guilds and about 99% of the moonkin's I see
    are using Heart of the Wild over Nature's Vigil and I'm pretty clueless why. My druid is about
    565 iLvl equip so I'd say I have a good ammount of Intellect and I am only getting MAYBE
    100-300 DPS along with the 6% Stam.

    Are they taking HotW for that ~300 DPS increase over millions of healing from Nature's Vigil?
    You are sadly mistaken about the amount of DPS granted by that 6% intellect.

    Considering that most druids now have 20k+ int, 6% extra int, at 20k, is 1200 extra int, equivalent to a flask. Its roughly 5% extra throughput no matter your spec (For most balance druids, for instance, this is around 7000 or so dps, NOT 100-300 dps). At that

    Finally you must also consider the on-use component of the ability. Its essentially a second tranq for a raid, OR can be used in conjuction with tranq for a super-tranq.

    NV will equal out, over time, to be a 4% dps increase, roughly equivalent with HotW. So the question is, how do you want your healing done- quite often, but not as powerful per use (NV), or only once/twice a fight, but incredibly powerful (HotW).

    I would, for instance, use HotW on Malkorok for the Blood Rage if the raid is soaking it, and NV on, say, Thok.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  8. #8
    Thanks r4id & Raugnaut the 10 \ 25m thing does make a lot more sense now.

    I wasn't saying 6% int = 300 DPS, I was getting that from simming the difference between NV and HotW.

    If the talent difference is 7k how come sim craft isn't showing that?

  9. #9
    Well, simcraft ist theoratical only.
    In practice your DPS is not only different because of the talents. Also certain mechanics can be a dps loss in a fight (e. g. movement).

    @ boomkinhero:
    There is no I in team. Some passive healing can be quite strong in 10 man, especially when you are the only hybrid and you are 2 healing nearly everything.
    HotW tranq is huge, but generates a lot of overhealing. Most of the time the normal tranq is all you need. The active part of HotW can be quite strong, too, but most of the time you don't have 30 seconds time to heal like a healer because of enrage. If you use the active part with rejuvenation, you will waste a lot of GCD's and bring 0 DPS . For Progression ofc there can be situations where you have to do that, but that's not often. I would count that 90 % of the moonkins just have one macro for hotw + tranq and don't use the active part a lot.
    ---
    I would suggest you to play with the talent of your choice. I tested HotW and NV a lot, and the DPS difference is not huge. It also depends on the fightlengh. NV is quite good for burst and most of the time with soft enrages more burst is not bad.
    If you still struggle on your choice, ask your healers or raidleaders what they prefer most. At the end all what counts is that the boss dies.
    Last edited by r4id; 2013-10-16 at 10:23 AM.

  10. #10
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    YNV will equal out, over time, to be a 4% dps increase, roughly equivalent with HotW.
    This is going to depend on the fight. The uptime can go higher (but rarely lower) than that depending on the fight duration, and you'll often be able to time the downtime to coincide with when you can't DPS anyway. If a fight is exactly five minutes long, you'll get four full uses of NV, resulting in an average gain closer to 5%. If a fight has somewhat predictable times when you can't DPS, you'll also often get a bit more benefit from NV compared to HotW, as the cooldown on NV keeps ticking while you're inactive but the passive benefit of HotW goes wasted. Things like waiting for adds to land on Immerseus, going up and down towers on Galakras, moving between rooms on Spoils, running to and from conveyor belts on Blackfuse, jumping onto platforms on Paragons, etc. Most of the previous examples obviously also depend on what you're assigned to.

    Fortunately you don't have to pick one. HotW is very useful on some fights (like Malkorok) while NV shines on others.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  11. #11
    I'm progressing on 10 man heroic (at Siegecrafter Blackfuse right now) and honestly HotW has been useful on the majority of boss fights, we tend to 2 heal the encounters we can and having a raid topping ability is far more valuable than the slow and more constant healing that NV provides. Not to mention the fact that if you mess NV up (i.e don't line it up with inc/CA, if you chose inc ofcourse) you're actually gimping yourself dps-wise compared to just having the passive 6% int hotw provides.

    TLDR, HotW is a mindless dps increase with an incredibly powerful active; a raid topping tranq and rejuvs that leave resto druids envious. ^_^
    Last edited by Trallas; 2013-10-16 at 12:34 PM.

  12. #12
    Thanks again for the replies from everyone!

    Trallas I'm working on Blackfuse myself and I really like NV during the empowered magnet phase
    and it lines up perfectly, 1 use in the beginning with CDs \ Hero, then comes back up during the
    empowered magnet phase which is almost impossible to get a full tranq off without clipping it or
    standing inside fire. I'm going to really test HotW a lot more. Thanks once again!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by r4id View Post
    @ boomkinhero:
    There is no I in team. Some passive healing can be quite strong in 10 man, especially when you are the only hybrid and you are 2 healing nearly everything.
    .
    That's why I said "if it isn't necessary". NV is uncontrollable healing without a DPS loss. HotW is pure passive damage and more dps. If you're the only hybrid, it could be a necessity, but that doesn't apply to what I'm talking about.
    HotW has saved our raid from wipes because a healer died > rejuv spam by god is so simple and is practically 1.5x healers. I've gone bear form and tanked for a short time so a debuff could drop from a tank because one died. It's utility has been invaluable and especially since all healing I do with NV, while might look like a lot, is irrelevant because it isn't necessary.. it often only heals what ends up being overhealing for healers.. rarely saves lives (which is what healing is about).
    Again, let me reiterate (because far too many forum posts are taken incredibly hostile) this is my case and is qualified by "necessity".

    Anyways, maybe I'm lucky that my healers are badass.
    Last edited by boomkinhero; 2013-10-16 at 05:31 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Cylus View Post
    Thanks r4id & Raugnaut the 10 \ 25m thing does make a lot more sense now.

    I wasn't saying 6% int = 300 DPS, I was getting that from simming the difference between NV and HotW.

    If the talent difference is 7k how come sim craft isn't showing that?
    cause.. its sim craft
    players will usually get diff results considering fights are patchwerk and all that fun stuff

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