But really, a raid by definition requires a large group of people. Thats the difference. 5 man is small and hardly considered a raid.
I guess the real point though is the request for longer dungeons which is fine except I would keep them out of LFD randoms. Maybe have them drop half a tier above heroic dungeons or something to compensate for the length and commitment.
I think many would probably think BRD, UBRS, Kara type length for 5 people which would be great but the incentive to do them would be minimal and anything more than minimal would be problematic.
5 man raids are essentially capped with respect to difficulty. There's only so much you can do in a 2 minute fight. At the beginning of each expansion, healers have bad mana efficiency, which removes the possibility of 5-10 minute fights, unless you give the bosses all 1 shot mechanics and very little damage otherwise.
Also, if you think good guilds/groups of players figure out and kill HC raids fast now? The spread of skill is even higher in 5 man groups. If you tuned 5 man raids for a group, composed of, say, members of Sco's challenge mode group (look up streams of his early MoP CM gold medals), and they were supposed to wipe 100 times per boss? Then no one would down the bosses, ever. But if you tune them even slightly under, then people complain because method's best 5 cleared the raid that was supposed to last 3 months in 2 hours.
Plus, wouldn't the mechanics get really dull? You can't have the staples like tank switches, random mind controls, random disables, etc. because if the healer is targeted and the group is taking raid like damage, then there's no chance of beating it.
I love the idea of challenging 5 man content, but trying to integrate it into raiding would be a disaster of epic proportions.
I vote you do Challenge Modes.
Originally Posted by Naphta
I would like to see harder dungeons but nothing raid like.
Technically, they can add these by simply including actually difficult dungeons alongside each raid tier. For example, Halls of Reflection were pretty painful for non-raiders when it came out initially. One could include ZA and ZG as something alongside Firelands, especially since they were our only "new" 5-man content until DS, and those were ridiculously painful to go through because of how inexperienced and, for lack of a better term, bad so many players were even after dealing with other cata heroics for most of the year.
We don't need 5-man "raids", we just need the good ol' challenging heroic-level only 5-mans to be released alongside the normal raids that have some actual challenge to justify the rewards. Hell, don't even make them available for LFG.
"If I didn't have bad luck I'd have no luck at all."
what about 1 man raiding? Even better.
I'd rather have tons of encounters similar to the green fire warlock encounter. Challenging but doable, requiring solid strategy and knowledge of mechanics.
The rest of you be damned, 5 people is definitely 4 to many.
In fact I think they offered a fairer challenge than TBC heroics, which were more often "stack cc or your blue geared tank dies to stupid damage output". Very few of the bosses were harder than the trash.
While you could have some interesting 5 man encounters, they'd be heavily limited compared to 10s and 25s. Magister's Terrace Kael'Thas wasn't anywhere nearly as interesting as the 25 man version.
On the other hand, the ZA remake did a good job of transferring most of the 10 man mechanics to 5s. I think the only thing lost was the tank swap on the bear boss.
Last edited by Tamerlane2; 2013-10-16 at 07:30 AM.
Class imbalance would be too much of a deal I think.
Take healers for example. It already is a massive boon to bring a priest or monk healer along, because they add a respectable amount of dps. Why would anyone run 5mans without one if it means having 3.5 dps instead of 3? It makes any type of berserk timer almost a non-issue for such a group.
Great idea, but it won't happen again. You have far too many players who enjoy the idea that dungeons are faceroll to the point of complete irrelevancy, because valor.
Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion
Very, very difficult dungeons that you can progress through with a tight knit group of friends would be awesome. Don't give them any awesome loot, but some achievements and mounts. Much like challenge modes, but where gear actually plays a role and the difficulty is the mechanics and not how challenge modes work.