I'm Ready For 5 man Raids

[melodramocracy]

if you want a challenge maybe do hc's solo ? try killling bosses and you will have progress battles

So by this logic, we shouldn't have anything other than 25 man raids. If you want 10 man, just go do 25 man with 10 people, amirite?

Makes as much sense as a 40man Arena.

I know. AV is terrible.

You make it sound like these are mutually exclusive. You can have fairly easy entry-level heroic dungeons, and then have "Nightmare Dungeons" that are actual endgame content for small groups. The only possible argument here would be "rehash" as the nightmare dungeons would likely be like Challenge Modes are now, plus maybe some new/revamped dungeons (e.g. next xpac there are let's say 8 normal dungeons, and 11 nightmare dungeons with three being updated old world dungeons).

And what ends up happening is that the population will simply focus on the hardest dungeons, pretend they're 'mandatory', and demand a nerf. You must recall the outrage at hHoR, despite there being several other easier ones released along with it.

[Thelxi]

Even 25 is to small for flex and LFR. Both should be able to be 40man. 2 tanks, 10 healers and 28 dps and you have fixed the problem with lack of tanks for LFR.

Even though many computers would explode across the planet, I like that idea. It would indeed also help with queues.

[Deleted]

I dont really like the idea at all, as someone said before, balancing around is impossible for 5mans with so many classes and abilities, and all taht stuff what means raiding... Harder 5man dungeons for 6.0 - HELL Yes! 5man Raids - woot? No.

Ideas for 6.0
harder 5man HCs (cause they are HC!)
longer 5mans at all, like 5-7 bosses each
one raid size, 20man
lfr 20man
flex 10-30man

[LazarusLong]

I think this can work.

Basically you create rather long and hard "Nightmare" dungeon with several "wings" where you have saves per boss. Heroic and challenge modes simply run per-wing like LFR or Flex.

[Spotnick]

Ya I loved Cata Heriocs, until people whined & got them nerfed

They were a pain in the a** for pick up groups, and to be honest, they were a pain in the a** for gearing up ASAP to go raid for real.

Problem would be easily fixed if challenge modes would drop upgraded gear once you complete them, with a bag like heroic scenario with a chance to win an LFR epic. I have never even entered challenge mode because they don't give anything useful.

Edit: With more thoughs, bring back BC/Cata difficulty over the current one, but make the items just like thunderforfged/warforged items, and have last boss drop an LFR iLvl epic just like back in BC days. Keep the raid delay at beginning of expansion and profit.

[Terridon]

While you could give people all raidbuffs, and use drums of war, it would most likely end up being badly balanced.
You want it to be challenging, but with just 3 dps, it quickly becomes a clear which combinations that is cookie cutter. Of course you have that to some degree in 10 and 25 man, but it's a lot easier to work around. One melee in 10-man that have to leave melee range for some time, isn't much of a problem, but will be in a 3man group. If not, it will just be too easy with 3 ranged, and so on.

Can understand why you want it, but doubt it can work. And tbh you can do flex with 7 people currently. Might be rather hard that way, but a player more should even it out dpswise.

[onemanaleft]

So you want early Cata type heroics? With tough bosses, interesting mechanics, long dungeons, and gear that was awesome at the time and appropriate, because it was rare to complete those through LFD? I'm all for it.

cata heroics were about as hard as a 5 man version of LFR

[Neji]

Before you say "do a dungeon," I want an actual long challenge that rewards gear appropriate to the difficulty. Not that they even make dungeons anymore.

"Go do challenge mode." I don't want to rerun and perfect content to minimize the time I clear a place for gear that is purely aesthetics, I want to spend time progressing on bosses.

If you want the 5 man challenge then challenge modes are where it's at. Yes, the rewards don't really make them a more than once and done style thing assuming you got all 9 gold but it definitely is fun from a challenge aspect and was one of the more difficult things I've done. I wouldn't mind seeing dungeons at that level of difficulty with bonus objectives that provide loot.

[clevin]

Very, very difficult dungeons that you can progress through with a tight knit group of friends would be awesome. Don't give them any awesome loot, but some achievements and mounts. Much like challenge modes, but where gear actually plays a role and the difficulty is the mechanics and not how challenge modes work.

People, OP included, wont' run t hem if they don't have good loot. Imagine if you could run this really hard, fun dungeon in 5.4... that dropped 463 blues. No one would do it past, perhaps some people curious about it or if there was an acheivement.

People have mentioned the other endgame 5 mans (HoR, etc) but remember those had gear that was quite good for the content and patch. HoR dropped gear that was close to Firelands level stuff so if you were gearing an alt you could run it and get upgrades to get into ICC. Even in ICC10 gear HoR was fun, too.

So, bringing back hard 5 mans that dropped gear you could use for an alt (perhaps even some BoA gear so you could run them on a main) would be fun. But '5 man raids' implies to me a level of complexity and design that I don't see as viable anymore and it also implies getting gear that's the same as a raid which I think would be too much.