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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    Humans in WoW are a lot older than the game. Even if you want to do your fancy-smancy RPing and RP your human as a teen/young adult, he'd still be old enough to surpass the events of WoW.

    That said, for a human to be BORN into the events of MoP or early WoW, having a few humans who'd support the Horde or peace would be a no-brainer (look at Anduin)

    for the average 30-50 year old Human, just think of what you've seen in your life. Orcs have destroyed your home twice, butchered your family no doubt as the human population isn't all that big, if you've chosen to flee from Lordaeron to Stormwind in WC3 or vice-versa in WC1-2, you've lost everything to the Orcs and want only the peace to rebuild.

    With that, unless you want to play a Human to RP some "Im a loner rebel QQ" or a child, I don't see it possible for Humans to join the Horde.
    areed, there is no way alliance humans would join the horde.

    but then forsaken humans are already on the horde, and if some of them became living again, that would also be humans on the horde, although not quite as you thought it might be. How'd you feel about those?

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    areed, there is no way alliance humans would join the horde.

    but then forsaken humans are already on the horde, and if some of them became living again, that would also be humans on the horde, although not quite as you thought it might be. How'd you feel about those?
    The exact same. Forsaken humans are Forsaken. Forsaken are undead humans. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if, when the models get their updates, we see undead having options to have less/more rot on their bodies.

    But giving the human models to the Horde is unnecessary. Forsaken humans are what undead are. Giving the human models to them would really not serve any purpose at all.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    Humans in WoW are a lot older than the game. Even if you want to do your fancy-smancy RPing and RP your human as a teen/young adult, he'd still be old enough to surpass the events of WoW.

    That said, for a human to be BORN into the events of MoP or early WoW, having a few humans who'd support the Horde or peace would be a no-brainer (look at Anduin)

    for the average 30-50 year old Human, just think of what you've seen in your life. Orcs have destroyed your home twice, butchered your family no doubt as the human population isn't all that big, if you've chosen to flee from Lordaeron to Stormwind in WC3 or vice-versa in WC1-2, you've lost everything to the Orcs and want only the peace to rebuild.

    With that, unless you want to play a Human to RP some "Im a loner rebel QQ" or a child, I don't see it possible for Humans to join the Horde.
    Not all Humans are Alliance though. Those in Lordaeron became Forsaken if they became undead, or they joined or took shelter under the Argent and Scarlet Crusades. Not many actually sought refuge in the south with Stormwind. There's also a great many mercenary, criminal and other groups of humans who are not a part of, and in some cases are opposed to the Alliance. The same is true for most, if not all the races of Azeroth.

  4. #264
    High Overlord Yonteh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostwood View Post
    You might as well market it as a different franchise, because I can barely recognize the original Warcraft universe as it is now.

    Expanding the universe is fine, of course, but it has to stay within certain parameters to keep it recognizable. They're crossing that line too often.
    I agree with the above. Silvermoon and Lordaeron being Horde is also something I've never liked. Horde pallies feels weird too.

    Also, I doubt any human would have reason to actually join the horde. Not even the forsaken, they're a lorelol IMO.
    Last edited by Yonteh; 2013-10-29 at 11:21 PM.
    Furthermore, I consider that Orgrimmar must be destroyed

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    The Horde want nothing to do with your sharp edges and disco dancing....no.
    Is it cause most of your races already provide sharp edges?

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Yonteh View Post
    I agree with the above. Silvermoon and Lordaeron being Horde is also something I've never liked. Horde pallies feels weird too.

    Also, I doubt any human would have reason to actually join the horde. Not even the forsaken, they're a lorelol IMO.
    They did, but we've moved on from there, no use crying over split milk, they were put in becasue the game needed it

    there is a transition that is required going to a full MMORPG .. certain things that didn't matter or worked well for an RTS won't for an MMO.

    why do you think Druids could not only be alliance and only be male? - the change was gameplay
    or warlocks only horde?
    They kept paladins allinace and shaman horde only for classic, and removed that in TBC

    it worked no problem in an RTS, but not in an MMO that requires 2 -factions. They felt they wanted a game based on 2 factions, so although by the time of WC3 we had 4 factions, it was cut down to 2 again, that's why night elves join the alliance and forsaken humans the horde - yes they gave horde humans way back then. And not many people liked it, I didn't like it, and I still don't, I'm not moaning over it.

    fast forward through decisions like blood elves on the horde or night elf mages or tauren paladins and priests etc etc, and you would fast reach the conclusion that a 2-faction MMO system cannot be balanced without humans on both sides or no sides. Living humans at least, although human, people do not identify with being zombies. the undead humans can be cool to play, but the main draw has always been human.

    Blizzard may feel they can avoid making humans available on the horde to solve the balance issues, it's their decision, but they have an excellent way to include the living versions through the foraken or to a lesser extent as vampire forsaken or one of the other human groups. If this doesn't happen, you'd continue to have people rolling alliance, and you'll continue to have a very horde centric progression because the focus would be necessary to keep you picking horde, ensuring a rather bad tale.

    fix the problem well, people saying oh you can't have humans on the horde, it won't work, it's absurd, it's crazy, absolutely not, it's stupid, it will ruin the orc v human. I say BS to all that, it doesn't have to, the reality is that the game needs it, as long as there is an mmo and you have a 2 faction system, both need to have LIVING playable humans available. The two humans don't have to be equally promientn, but they have to be a group a playing population would aspire to play. This rules out using traitors or gullible brainwashed cultists, no one wants to play those.

  7. #267
    I would convert every single toon that i have to Human. That is the one thing i hate about horde is that there are no humans.

  8. #268
    Herald of the Titans Blitzo's Avatar
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    Honestly at this point I wouldn't even care if they let any race be apart of any faction.

    I mean, not every orc believes in the horde. No every human believes in the alliance.

    It would make logical sense.
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  9. #269
    it seems the bulk of the opposition is largely "humans can't be on the horde or i t will no longer be orcs v humans".. which is a perception issue rather than a genuine one.

    Show these guys in a trailer or advert and they'd get it, these humans won't feel like they have anything to do with the alliance. Especially if they use the blood elf model rather than the alliance human model. That would be a very good idea, making the humans both attractive and very different from the alliance both in theme and appearance, it would also make rolling a horde human and alliance human not feel like your rolling the same thing.

    Not seeing convincing reasons this won't work well. I can see people struggling to dissociate human from alliance.Very few got far enough of the Syndicate, Defias bros, cultists, and those who didn't like the forsaken being used only had a problem with undeath being curable.. their posts showed they didn't see or understand the presentation -

    e.g. one guy it seemed clear felt that the condition been cured meant that this automatically meant you could "cure" every undead at any time, it felt like he thought the end of the undead was being proposed clearly what is not been said
    Last edited by Mace; 2013-10-30 at 08:20 AM.

  10. #270
    There are very few posters here who I'm convinced think this is genuinely a bad idea, because only one, possibly 2 have convinced me they've looked at this properly from all the angles and still don't like it.

    maybe I'm being stubborn, but this seems a catastrophical change if you're looking at it the wrong way, there are very few ways this can actually work and work well, but you have to see it, tkae the time to read and consider what's been said first, I'm not convinced many opposers are actually doing that.

  11. #271
    Epic! Miuku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    maybe I'm being stubborn, but this seems a catastrophical change if you're looking at it the wrong way
    No, it looks like a boring and unimaginative choice - one that isn't wanted nor needed.

    But on the positive side, the chances of it happening is pretty much zero.
    :: We are cows - proud and true. Come on Tauren - Moo Moo Moo!

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    No, it looks like a boring and unimaginative choice - one that isn't wanted nor needed.

    But on the positive side, the chances of it happening is pretty much zero.
    that was the positive side?

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    There are very few posters here who I'm convinced think this is genuinely a bad idea, because only one, possibly 2 have convinced me they've looked at this properly from all the angles and still don't like it.

    maybe I'm being stubborn, but this seems a catastrophical change if you're looking at it the wrong way, there are very few ways this can actually work and work well, but you have to see it, tkae the time to read and consider what's been said first, I'm not convinced many opposers are actually doing that.
    What a disgustingly condescending attitude and that's all there is to say on the matter.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    No, it looks like a boring and unimaginative choice - one that isn't wanted nor needed.

    But on the positive side, the chances of it happening is pretty much zero.

    even though i'm convinced it's a necessary development, I might have agreed with you if it was given as 1 of 2 new races, but the context this could ever be presented as would be as one of quite a number of sub races. I would not find the story boring or unimaginative if it involved a forsaken cure of some sort or a vampire story.

    Besides I think giving humans to the horde and in this way is quite imaginative, it's unthinkable, no one would have thought of that, but when you follow the logic through, it actually makes a lot of sense, it reminds me of the time blood elves were made horde, it seemed the unthinkable then too, but at the time it made a lot of sense once it was presented, not everyone liked the move (and this is actually less controversial than that was since Elves had never joined the horde and humans had done so twice, with Alterac and with the Forsaken), but it was a huge success and solved a serious problem.
    Last edited by Mace; 2013-10-30 at 04:02 PM.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    What a disgustingly condescending attitude and that's all there is to say on the matter.
    Glad to see I have my own character police, I feel like a celebrity. I don't need a fanfare Rumaya, but I'm flattered. Howz things?



    London Irish ftw

  16. #276
    Stood in the Fire Ailyara's Avatar
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    Why do people say there is no way a human would join the horde or an orc would join the alliance? There is no way a Klingon would join Starfleet but Worf did it. Why can't there be some quest, it could be a really hard quest, along the lines of a legendary or something, that a character can complete that would allow them to hop to the other faction, no matter what their race is. So maybe it would be rare to see an Orc welcomed in Stormwind. Hell it happened in EQ, it was hard as hell but you could be a dark elf and be welcomed in east freeport. Some people would still treat you like crap, but whatever.

    Adds an interesting depth to the game I think, especially if you put it behind a quest like that. It could even line up with lore as you burning your allegiance with one faction to join the other, and you could never go back. As a whole, yes, Humans won't join the Horde, but one human betraying his kind to bend the knee to Vol'jin? Why not?

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    What a disgustingly condescending attitude and that's all there is to say on the matter.
    don't mind him buddy, you've got a lot more support on this than when forum posters started suggesting blood elves join the horde, yet it was leaked, then confirmed with an announcement. you should have seen the forum wars then, and then the overwhelming support when it became clear they weren't changing their mind.

    I don't expect blizzard to do this, but if they did, I'd be 100% for it. But hey, who cares what I think, how I thought about playable horde blood elves was irrelevant, what happened happened for their own reasons, their own choices

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Glad to see I have my own character police, I feel like a celebrity. I don't need a fanfare Rumaya, but I'm flattered. Howz things?



    London Irish ftw
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    don't mind him buddy, you've got a lot more support on this than when forum posters started suggesting blood elves join the horde, yet it was leaked, then confirmed with an announcement. you should have seen the forum wars then, and then the overwhelming support when it became clear they weren't changing their mind.

    I don't expect blizzard to do this, but if they did, I'd be 100% for it. But hey, who cares what I think, how I thought about playable horde blood elves was irrelevant, what happened happened for their own reasons, their own choices
    The idea, as terrible as it is, isn't my current issue. It's Ravenmoon's breathtaking arrogance in ignoring anyone opposing him on the grounds that he thinks virtually anyone who actually reads his idea loves it. So if you didn't love it you didn't read it and your opinion doesn't count.

    In fact he encourages you to read it again so you'll get it this time!

    How else is such an approach to be described except as disgustingly condescending?

    Friday week we have Blizzcon, the shocking (it won't be) NON implementation of your ideas and hopefully this can go back into the crackpot for another two years until you both decide to peddlie it again before expansion 6.
    Last edited by Obelisk357; 2013-10-30 at 04:16 PM.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Ailyara View Post
    Why do people say there is no way a human would join the horde or an orc would join the alliance? There is no way a Klingon would join Starfleet but Worf did it. Why can't there be some quest, it could be a really hard quest, along the lines of a legendary or something, that a character can complete that would allow them to hop to the other faction, no matter what their race is. So maybe it would be rare to see an Orc welcomed in Stormwind. Hell it happened in EQ, it was hard as hell but you could be a dark elf and be welcomed in east freeport. Some people would still treat you like crap, but whatever.

    Adds an interesting depth to the game I think, especially if you put it behind a quest like that. It could even line up with lore as you burning your allegiance with one faction to join the other, and you could never go back. As a whole, yes, Humans won't join the Horde, but one human betraying his kind to bend the knee to Vol'jin? Why not?
    I agree, but you know what people are like, it's hard when you're set one way, to be accommodating to change even good change, besides I suspect that some of the nay sayers are just looking at the title, and thinking.. "give alliance humans to the horde..wtf! No way" and not bothering to read the rest or even consider. It's a forum, instant knee jerk reactions are quite common, and some are far more prepared to give you their opinion first without giving your proposal a fair hearing.

    I mean, blizzard breaks all these imagined rules all the time. Fans make these things as taboo rules, it's fans that say humans can never join the horde, not blizzard - and this is despite many people pointing out in this topic that it has happened twice before, several times over, yet how many people do you see still return to the post and write "no, it can never happen, it would ruin the laws of warcraft, humans can never join the horde" - wanna bet they were paying attention? Score 1 for blanket statements.

  20. #280

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