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  1. #1

    do we need to be tuned upwards still?

    I hate to say it, but I was for the frost "nerfs" from the original amounts the ptr had(HB @ 30% increased damage being the main one. Regret being for those nerfs now). However I think that buff might have been spot on now. While I typically perform well in MY raids, looking at data sites like raidbots makes me realize how poor both our specs are currently. We are by far one of the worst melee on ALMOST every fight and ranking for us is substantially lower than every other class. I think both specs need some more upwards tuning. Based on overall damage for heroic encounters we are 8-12% behind all the melee. While I don't think there is a hybrid tax I definitely think melee should be closer than that. There is ONE fight that we peak at top five melee dps but even still we are considerably behind the top 4. What do people think of where we currently stand?
    Last edited by valliant13; 2013-10-14 at 11:35 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by valliant13 View Post
    I hate to say it, but I was for the frost "nerfs" from the original amounts the ptr had(HB @ 30% increased damage being the main one. Regret being for those nerfs now). However I think that buff might have been spot on now. While I typically perform well in MY raids, looking at data sites like raidbots makes me realize how poor both our specs are currently. We are by far one of the worst melee on ALMOST every fight and ranking for us is substantially lower than every other class. I think both specs need some more upwards tuning. Based on overall damage for heroic encounters we are 8-12% behind all the melee. While I don't think there is a hybrid tax I definitely think melee should be closer than that. There is ONE fight that we peak at top five melee dps but even still we are considerably behind the top 4. What do people think of where we currently stand?
    Yeah I feel you. I'm always keeping an eye on raidbots and I keep scratching my head and thinking this can't be right. I thought the very same, wish we could have that 30% on HB back. It does seem like we could use a bump.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by CogDk View Post
    Yeah I feel you. I'm always keeping an eye on raidbots and I keep scratching my head and thinking this can't be right. I thought the very same, wish we could have that 30% on HB back. It does seem like we could use a bump.
    Haven't looked at raid bots but which melee is dominating? My sense from flex runs is Ret is out of control. A full 50-100k DPS ahead of everyone else.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Faenlyn View Post
    Haven't looked at raid bots but which melee is dominating? My sense from flex runs is Ret is out of control. A full 50-100k DPS ahead of everyone else.
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/

    Warriors and Rogues.

  5. #5
    ferals and windwalkers seem to be doing very good on some fights too.

  6. #6
    The Patient Reserk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bals View Post
    ferals and windwalkers seem to be doing very good on some fights too.
    I'm guessing you meant Windwalker because if not, i'm confused lol

    Edit: Seems it changed before I refreshed.

  7. #7
    PvP/BGs is likely the reason frost gets no buffs. It does quite well in that environment.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Faenlyn View Post
    Haven't looked at raid bots but which melee is dominating? My sense from flex runs is Ret is out of control. A full 50-100k DPS ahead of everyone else.
    Hmm, Flex is a tough measuring tool, because you could have a normal mode guy in with LFR\flex guys. I haven't seen anything out of Ret that out of control. I think they are solid, but not going to beat a rogue anytime soon. Warriors really shine on most AoE fights like Galakras and Spoils. Fairly even elsewhere.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by CogDk View Post
    Yeah I feel you. I'm always keeping an eye on raidbots and I keep scratching my head and thinking this can't be right. I thought the very same, wish we could have that 30% on HB back. It does seem like we could use a bump.
    We were nerfed for 13, and.
    I don't have any heroic, or even warforged weapon, not even full SoO gear(flexi or normal), do not have Thok yet, yet I can see 700k crit HBs, and its not surprisingly rare.
    You cannot simply watch RB now because a)Lots of DKs are still getting there and getting gears for Dual DW(ones who decided to play in it), because just think-ALL our gear from t15 was against mastery in any way, preferring haste whenever it is possible. Therefore until people won't replace at least half a gear with (no-more-haste-go-mastery) correct stats, they won't join the logs as frosts.
    b)Lots of people are still keeping up with twohand frost, which pulls us down on some fights
    c)Lots of people are still not having 4 pieces t16. Once more people from top100 will get all these shiny loots(2t16+thok+weps essentially), we will go up.
    We're going there and doing fine, and really Scaling from gear well. It's just not so many people are up to appropriate gear point, lots are still dropping "dem blaadi therteen kay heist" from RPPM patch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Faenlyn View Post
    Haven't looked at raid bots but which melee is dominating? My sense from flex runs is Ret is out of control. A full 50-100k DPS ahead of everyone else.
    stop letting him solo AoE, just put more effort in adds so he won't have so much space for free DPS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    It forces you to double tap. that's it. It's a great change.
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    It's just so you can say you tapped something twice that day.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Minoan View Post
    We were nerfed for 13, and.
    I don't have any heroic, or even warforged weapon, not even full SoO gear(flexi or normal), do not have Thok yet, yet I can see 700k crit HBs, .
    700k crits with Howling Blast? How? Even in DW my HB crits for only like 230k max (Something like that i dont remember) with a 561 sha sword or 561/540 Xifeng.) 556 ilvl also.

    So.... How?
    I solo stuff. I do deepz. I raid. What else do i want? Oh yeah. loot. give me loot. Cookie for loot?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    Hmm, Flex is a tough measuring tool, because you could have a normal mode guy in with LFR\flex guys. I haven't seen anything out of Ret that out of control. I think they are solid, but not going to beat a rogue anytime soon. Warriors really shine on most AoE fights like Galakras and Spoils. Fairly even elsewhere.
    Additionally using anecdotal evidence is not a good way to measure how good or bad a class is doing. I can't count the number of times someone says class X is OP because they just happen to be playing with a good player, or class X needs buffs because they themselves arent as good as a player playing a different class.

    Having said all that, death knights are, for the most part, on the bottom of the melee class based on raidbots though. The margin between dks, druids, paladins and windwalkers is pretty small though, one class has to be at the bottom... Also, Rogues and Warriors are dominating.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Warriors are dominating meters because I've taught them all how to play since last tier.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Minoan View Post
    We were nerfed for 13, and.
    I don't have any heroic, or even warforged weapon, not even full SoO gear(flexi or normal), do not have Thok yet, yet I can see 700k crit HBs, and its not surprisingly rare.
    You cannot simply watch RB now because a)Lots of DKs are still getting there and getting gears for Dual DW(ones who decided to play in it), because just think-ALL our gear from t15 was against mastery in any way, preferring haste whenever it is possible. Therefore until people won't replace at least half a gear with (no-more-haste-go-mastery) correct stats, they won't join the logs as frosts.
    b)Lots of people are still keeping up with twohand frost, which pulls us down on some fights
    c)Lots of people are still not having 4 pieces t16. Once more people from top100 will get all these shiny loots(2t16+thok+weps essentially), we will go up.
    We're going there and doing fine, and really Scaling from gear well. It's just not so many people are up to appropriate gear point, lots are still dropping "dem blaadi therteen kay heist" from RPPM patch.

    stop letting him solo AoE, just put more effort in adds so he won't have so much space for free DPS.
    You are easily lying. Sorry those are achievable only with thok trinket and two piece plus massive procs and praying for a 10 stack on 2 pc. You dont keep a ten stack regularly so sorry I don't believe you do this regularly. I have only hit for 350k max with 10 stacks of 2 pc pillar and double trinket proc. You would essentially need to be in bis to be doing that which you are saying you are not.

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valliant13 View Post
    You are easily lying. Sorry those are achievable only with thok trinket and two piece plus massive procs and praying for a 10 stack on 2 pc. You dont keep a ten stack regularly so sorry I don't believe you do this regularly. I have only hit for 350k max with 10 stacks of 2 pc pillar and double trinket proc. You would essentially need to be in bis to be doing that which you are saying you are not.
    On a fight with minimal movement it's quite easy to keep stacks up, with half decent RNG.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    On a fight with minimal movement it's quite easy to keep stacks up, with half decent RNG.
    I dont know what fight we barely move. And it's rng based you cant reliably keep up with rng. I typically keep at 5 stacks sometimes get to ten not easily keep it at 10. Either way hes not best in slot so I dont believe he's doing 700k HB crits.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Warriors are dominating meters because I've taught them all how to play since last tier.
    It's true, he sprinkled his Awesome sauce glitter on me and now I'm only losing to a rogue and a warlock...and sometimes a mage..and maybe a Hunter...But outside of those, I'm pwning in our 10 man group!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Minoan View Post
    We were nerfed for 13, and.
    I don't have any heroic, or even warforged weapon, not even full SoO gear(flexi or normal), do not have Thok yet, yet I can see 700k crit HBs, and its not surprisingly rare.
    You cannot simply watch RB now because a)Lots of DKs are still getting there and getting gears for Dual DW(ones who decided to play in it), because just think-ALL our gear from t15 was against mastery in any way, preferring haste whenever it is possible. Therefore until people won't replace at least half a gear with (no-more-haste-go-mastery) correct stats, they won't join the logs as frosts.
    b)Lots of people are still keeping up with twohand frost, which pulls us down on some fights
    c)Lots of people are still not having 4 pieces t16. Once more people from top100 will get all these shiny loots(2t16+thok+weps essentially), we will go up.
    We're going there and doing fine, and really Scaling from gear well. It's just not so many people are up to appropriate gear point, lots are still dropping "dem blaadi therteen kay heist" from RPPM patch.

    stop letting him solo AoE, just put more effort in adds so he won't have so much space for free DPS.
    700k crits are extremely rare for me, and I have about 21k mastery raid buffed (I have the thok trinket).

    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Morei/advanced
    Log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=11971&e=12252

    My max HB crit was 691k in that log, and that happened once.

    Now granted, I am a pretty terrible DK, but I don't really know how I can force bigger HB crits.
    Last edited by Lyon; 2013-10-15 at 03:23 AM. Reason: typo

  18. #18
    Armory US-RevolutioN@Saurfang. Logs are open/
    Gah, alright, you got me, I was trying to reach the logs but it's impossible right now from a place Im working that for whatsoever reason not allowing me to reach WoL and us armory. Looks like it blocks everything with the word wow in it or so. Are there porn pages with WOW in it or there are so many geeks around me? :P
    I should also mention that I got ToTTed and our warriors are cool guys and announcing Skull Banner+Bolt 30 seconds before and sometimes it is really easy to keep cooldowns for it. Yes alright I forgot to mention that things before, still sleepy@work. But I want to highlight that I'm not talking about situations with Norushen's +30% damage buff on target, I certainly remember crazy numbers from Yesterday Thok
    Quote Originally Posted by valliant13 View Post
    I dont know what fight we barely move. And it's rng based you cant reliably keep up with rng. I typically keep at 5 stacks sometimes get to ten not easily keep it at 10. Either way hes not best in slot so I dont believe he's doing 700k HB crits.
    Hey I remember you. YOu was the guy who was shouting on everyone and Mend on PTR theorycrafting posts and was providing absolutely no evidence or prves of that authors were wrong. You was the funniest guy back in a day who shouted NERF FROST THEY SHOULD NEVER OUTDAMAGE UNHOLY, UNHOLY IS FOR SKILLED SPAM SCOURGE STRIKE. I missed you.
    How your going? Still 5 heroics ToT ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Aprixius View Post
    700k crits with Howling Blast? How? Even in DW my HB crits for only like 230k max (Something like that i dont remember) with a 561 sha sword or 561/540 Xifeng.) 556 ilvl also.

    So.... How?
    watched your armory from mobile. 1)we both missing gloves enchant
    2)18k mastery is good, dropping so much setbonuses for pure mastery gems-waste.
    3)Some of your gears are low ilvl, less str. But, looking at how recklessly you are breaking STR gem bonuses, I don't think you care too much
    4)Feather is weak now, and Fusion core is QQ trinket, so replacing at least one with Gala/Thok will give you huge advantage with the same STR proc.
    You can pull even more mastery, when you will get 553 gears with pure mastery on it(unreforged).
    Last edited by Minoan; 2013-10-15 at 03:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    It forces you to double tap. that's it. It's a great change.
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    It's just so you can say you tapped something twice that day.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Minoan View Post
    I don't have any heroic, or even warforged weapon, not even full SoO gear(flexi or normal), do not have Thok yet, yet I can see 700k crit HBs, and its not surprisingly rare.
    World of logs or it didn't happen
    You cannot trust, nor take seriously, an adult male without facial hair.Boys have no facial hair and boys are not men.
    ╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Minoan View Post


    watched your armory from mobile. 1)we both missing gloves enchant
    2)18k mastery is good, dropping so much setbonuses for pure mastery gems-waste.
    3)Some of your gears are low ilvl, less str. But, looking at how recklessly you are breaking STR gem bonuses, I don't think you care too much
    4)Feather is weak now, and Fusion core is QQ trinket, so replacing at least one with Gala/Thok will give you huge advantage with the same STR proc.
    You can pull even more mastery, when you will get 553 gears with pure mastery on it(unreforged).
    Il ike just finished the glove enchant. Forgot about it.
    Ok ill fix that.
    I was pure mastery because i was like loling in lfr in blood with taking all the malk blood rage solo
    So spark + SPA is better both 530?

    Edit: Fixed gems. Using my other 2 trinkets.

    Also for 2h would this gems be alright or should i go for crit gems etc yada yada
    Last edited by Aprixius; 2013-10-15 at 04:13 AM.
    I solo stuff. I do deepz. I raid. What else do i want? Oh yeah. loot. give me loot. Cookie for loot?

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