Thread: Spirit question

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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    I dodnt agree 3k because regrowths with a decent speed are needed in raids nowadays
    No they aren't, the <10% quicker regrowths are not going to save anyone, perhaps try being more proactive with rejuv coverage if you're running into those issues?

    and going for nourish i need 2 drop some glyphs that decrease my overal hps. And my haste would be higher if i had a option. But going for 10 and the 13k buffed asap.
    There is no legitimate bp at 10k for resto druids, that is for balance.

    So int>spirit 13,5>haste 6652 ( when gear allows it 10 and the 13k) >master> crit
    Note that 2 haste or mastery will beat 1 int for gemming.

    Also note the 6.6k haste bp really isn't worth it if you can drop to 3k haste.

    Btw they guys who say it possible to get higher haste caps on my level how do you that drop allot of spirit or reforge every thing?
    They would have more than 6 pieces of gear with base haste on it.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    So int>spirit 13,5>haste 6652 ( when gear allows it 10 and the 13k) >master> crit
    For your ilvl:

    Spr(till mana is comfortable) > Haste to 3043 or 13,163(No other break points are worth the stat loss and faster hard cast spells isn't a reason to be between haste caps) > Mastery > Int > Crit > excess haste

    When I first went for the 13163 haste cap I dropped a lot of spirit and int and it was fine. You'd need a few haste pieces and then gem straight haste if needed.
    Last edited by Monkeyofcode; 2013-10-20 at 05:10 AM.

  3. #23
    Had quite a few pieces with haste on them when I swapped to 13163 at 544 ilvl. Jikun staff, paragons chest, jug ring, immerseus bracer, spirit/haste 553 neck piece. All those are spirit/ haste itemized. Had roughly 13k spirit and less than 1k crit. Low amts of mastery as we but that improved in time when I got a bit more mastery gear and I could swap out haste gear for mastery gear.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgiras View Post
    I read that most ppl say that your haste is too much, their all wrong. since you re playing with SotF, the cap for it is 5553. So the 5,8k haste you have is only 200 more than it supposed to be.
    That is a cap with SotF. It's not the cap. You'd be giving up ~2.5k mastery (or whatever) to gain one extra tick of one spell, and only every other time you cast it. It's not a bad idea if you happen to be right below it anyway, but it's not a replacement for 3k. Staying at 3k is still better, assuming you have that option.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgiras View Post
    Ending a fight with half a manabar, doesnt mean you should reforge spirit, this will come as you begin to outgear the content.
    Regularly ending fights with half a mana bar means you can safely reforge away some spirit. If your mana never goes below 10%, you have too much spirit by definition. Mana you don't spend is itemization wasted.

    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    As going for either only 3 or 10k haste and nothing inbetween. I dodnt agree 3k because regrowths with a decent speed are needed in raids nowadays and going for nourish i need 2 drop some glyphs that decrease my overal hps.
    I seriously doubt that you'd be able to tell the difference between Regrowth's casting time with 3k haste and with 10k haste if you did a blind test. It mostly feels faster because you already know it's faster. The difference is so tiny that it's not really noticeable.

    As for Nourish, casting it at any point is going to be a HPS loss. If you want to refresh Harmony, use Swiftmend. If you want to refresh Lifebloom, recast Lifebloom. If you want a filler heal, use Rejuvenation. If you want a filler heal on a target that already has Rejuvenation, use Genesis. All those options are more mana efficient than Nourish and all of them will result in higher overall HPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by adynn View Post
    Note that 2 haste or mastery will beat 1 int for gemming.
    The exact value of each stat will depend on the values of the others. The more of one you have, the more valuable the others get. That doesn't mean that a balance of all three is necessarily the best approach, but it is something to keep in mind. There's no magic item level breakpoint where one is suddenly better than the other. The value of haste is also massively dependent on breakpoints. 2 haste is better than 1 int if (and only if) that makes you reach a breakpoint. Haste over a breakpoint is not particularly valuable.
    Last edited by Alltat; 2013-10-20 at 09:37 AM.
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  5. #25
    I can feel the faster cast of regrowths pretty much all the time. But we're not talking about how good it feels. We're talking about the usefulness. And having a quick big cast heal is going to be useful anyway - a useful side-effect of having the 13k haste bp
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  6. #26
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    I guess I should have pointed out earlier that gaining an extra tick on a SotF empowered WG will have a much lesser relative impact than gaining an extra tick on a non-empowered WG, which also points towards not giving a damn about the haste BP for SotF spells when gearing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    The exact value of each stat will depend on the values of the others. The more of one you have, the more valuable the others get. That doesn't mean that a balance of all three is necessarily the best approach, but it is something to keep in mind. There's no magic item level breakpoint where one is suddenly better than the other. The value of haste is also massively dependent on breakpoints. 2 haste is better than 1 int if (and only if) that makes you reach a breakpoint. Haste over a breakpoint is not particularly valuable.
    Yes but with the OP's gear I'd be willing to wager the farm on the fact that 2 mastery is better than 1 int for them. I also didn't mean to imply that 2 haste (post breakpoint) is better than 1 int, I thought that it was obviously the other way around, not to mention I gave a general stat weighting that had mastery above post breakpoint haste so it shouldn't be an issue.

  7. #27
    Hey Flemdawgheal over at Windrunner here.

    Things im gunna say are just tips with how I feel a resto druid should play, or how I play mine.

    1.) Why reforge spirit to crit? Its your worst stat. I prefer the extra spirit so I can blanket more rejuv. Be alot better and safer than crit.

    2.) Haste wise I strongly recommend either 3043 or 13163 haste. Then spirit till your comfortable, then mastery thats it.

    3.) Getting to 13k haste was doable with ToT heroic gear and normal pieces in SoO. There are alot of haste pieces in SoO to help you get that. If all else fails, I've seen some resto druids use the Mageara trinket and reforge all that spirit to haste. It's quite a chunk. Also I was able to obtain 13k haste at 548 ilvl. Keep in mind im using up Blacksmithing gem slots and my gems for 480+ haste. I'm just now getting to the point where I can go int with my JC gems now. Eventually if that sha trinket drops I can have my BS slots back too for more throughput.

    4.) I have found rolling with Thok's trinket and Nazgrim's trinket does not provide enough mana regen. You would be much better off farming casually for a week to get 50k coins on the timeless ise and getting the 535 chi-ji trinket. You can use it with innervate and on cool down after that. The healing from my double upgraded 580 Heroic WF Nazgrim yields me 4-6mil healing on a fight on average. A flex thok non-upgraded 540 trinket has yielded me almost 8mil on heroic norushen. Also the passive int is a safer way to go rather than procs on 2 trinkets. Aim for the sha trinket or siege crafters as your 2cd trinket. Or both of those would be better imo.

    5.) just one more tad on the the haste thing. If you have to drop socket bonuses to get it do it. Its worth that much. Once you start getting more haste you can do 80 int 160 haste and 160 haste 160 spirit to match them and get your bonuses back. Out of all of this new gear I have 1 blue slot. The rest is yellow and red slots which means hello haste and throughput.
    Last edited by Flemdawg; 2013-10-22 at 06:41 AM.

  8. #28
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flemdawg View Post
    1.) Why reforge spirit to crit? Its your worst stat. I prefer the extra spirit so I can blanket more rejuv. Be alot better and safer than crit.
    While I agree that reforging spirit to crit isn't generally a very good idea (the one exception being a spirit/mastery item when you have more than enough spirit already and aren't reaching for a haste breakpoint), crit is a "safe" stat as resto. With most of your healing from HoTs and your emergency heal critting every time anyway, there's nothing particularly random. The chances of casting a Wild Growth and not getting any critical ticks are astronomically low. Crit is unreliable for some other healers, but that doesn't really apply to druids. The reason not to stack crit is simply that mastery will result in a bigger healing increase per point than crit does.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  9. #29
    On average, a 1% increase in crit will provide a 1% increase in healing done.

    The main reason why we don't stack crit except as a last resort is because it takes a ~600 points of crit rating to increase your crit by 1% vs ~480 points in mastery rating for the mastery 1%. So if you have extra spirit and can't reforge it to higher haste cap or more mastery then reforging to crit will increase your throughput but not efficiently.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    While I agree that reforging spirit to crit isn't generally a very good idea (the one exception being a spirit/mastery item when you have more than enough spirit already and aren't reaching for a haste breakpoint), crit is a "safe" stat as resto. With most of your healing from HoTs and your emergency heal critting every time anyway, there's nothing particularly random. The chances of casting a Wild Growth and not getting any critical ticks are astronomically low. Crit is unreliable for some other healers, but that doesn't really apply to druids. The reason not to stack crit is simply that mastery will result in a bigger healing increase per point than crit does.
    If i had to chose between 1 more rejuv up on a target because my spirit supports it, or a small chance for a crit on my current spells. I chose uptime on as many targets as possible. Thats just how I roll in 25man. More total healing and less HPS is fine with me

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Flemdawg View Post
    You would be much better off farming casually for a week to get 50k coins on the timeless ise and getting the 535 chi-ji trinket. You can use it with innervate and on cool down after that.
    The trinket is under budgeted, making it less appealing to healers.

    Also, in lieu of recent changes to innervate, I guess a public service announcement is in order.

    Innervate
    30 yd range
    Instant 3 min cooldown

    Causes the target to regenerate mana equal to 50% of the caster's Spirit(excluding short - duration Spirit bonuses) every 1 sec for 10 sec. Total mana gained will never be less than 8% of caster's maximum mana.

    So dont try to align the two in high hopes of victory.



    Also, this only adds to the problem of regen; as your primary mana return CD is now tied into the spirit you have, if you do decide to drop it lower than 12k, you are looking at a even shitter innervate, making this a vicious circle.
    ^ I agree with this.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flemdawg View Post
    If i had to chose between 1 more rejuv up on a target because my spirit supports it, or a small chance for a crit on my current spells. I chose uptime on as many targets as possible. Thats just how I roll in 25man. More total healing and less HPS is fine with me
    That assumes that there are more meaningful targets to cast rejuvenation on and (more importantly) that you have spare GCDs when it really matters. If you already have enough mana to fill every GCD when it really counts while still having enough mana left that no one dies in between, then you gain very little from additional spirit. Being able to cast more rejuvenations when the raid is fairly stable already is good for padding meters, but isn't actually helpful.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

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