Time for a new guild?

[BabbleDabble]

Ok, so I've been in my current guild for almost 4 years (joined in December of 2009) to raid 25 man ICC. We were somewhat successful in 25s (top 5 Alliance guild on my server) and my 10 man team in the guild downed the Lich King before all the nerfs. I have become very good friends with the guild leader and would take out to lunch if I happened to drive through his area.

There are a few people in the guild that were there when I joined that I consider good friends that I raid with. The problem I'm having right now is that my guild team absolutely sucks. We finally got through the first wing of SoO on flex two weeks ago. We've only had 2 attempts on Galarakas, but I see it taking a week or two to get him down. I've successfully completed the first 2 wings and the first boss of the 3rd wing on flex in pugs. I've also completed the first wing on normal with another team in my guild.

I love some of the people in the guild, but I want more. I don't want to be a hardcore raider, but I'd like to be part of raid team that progresses at a decent rate. A team that's 8/14 on normal. Something along those lines.

There are several guilds on my server that are at least 8/14 if not further on my server, but for some reason I feel attached to my current guild if for nothing other than the friendships I have built over the last 4 years.

tl;dr

I'm good friends with the GM and a few other people in the guild, but raiding has become tiresome with no progression.

If you were in this situation, what do you think you would do?

[Alyajna]

Just think a long time about what you really want from wow and what would make you happy. I was in a similar situation, and figured that there were plenty of guilds out there that would offer both progression and the friendly atmosphere i'd grown to love over the years. I left the guild, transferred severs, and after a whole expansion I found nothing that offered the same sense of being part of a community. In all the other guilds I tried, I was just kinda there. In the end, I asked to join the guild that I originally left, they were very hesitant to accept, but they did and I am much happier now. Sometimes you just can't beat that sense of friendship and community, especially if you aren't looking to be hard-core anyway..I spent all of Cataclysm looking for a replacement, and found none.

Have you tried bringing your concerns to the raid leaders/gm? Taken a look at why your raid team is not progressing and tried to fix it? Maybe it is a situation you could help fix with a little work.

[BabbleDabble]

Unfortunately, I know exactly why our team isn't progressing. We have a DPS that barely pulls 75k and that can't handle simple mechanics, another DPS that tops the charts, but doesn't know how to get out of fire or stack, and the raid leaders best friend (or girlfriend) can't pay attention to mechanics and healing. On top of that, we have attendance issues and sometimes we'll miss two weeks in a row of raiding (we only raid one night a week).

It's frustrating because 4 of us on the team have been raiding together since WotLK in 25s and 10s, but we just don't have the recruiting to put together a decent team and the raid leader isn't the type of guy to tell someone that they can't raid with us because they're not good.

After running flex with pugs found through openraid, I know how easy flex can be, but it just seems like we have some idiots that can't handle raiding. I want to bring it up with the raid leader/GM, but it's hard to do since I consider him a close friend.

[Kavorka]

I think I would have to agree with zomgname. Progression is all part of the fun of raiding but the value of playing with friends / other people you like cannot be undervalued imo. I would also agree with the suggestion to talk to your GM friend and try fix the situation rather than leaving to search for something you may never find.

[BetrayedOf52]

If you're raiding one night a week at times, if that at all... id leave. they will still be your friends, you can still do flex and other things with them. Join a solid team and make sure you can make the raid days, You will make new friends and have a blast.

Edit: Like I said it seems like you're not raiding with them very much anyways, and it's super depressing to kill stuff in pugs and wipe with them. although remember if you're looking for a normal guild. they typically want good attendance , legendary meta gem and cloak. If you're looking a flex guild id stay with them... you can easily pug all 4.

[Terridon]

Well. Find a raid that doesn't insist you join as a guild member, maybe.
Sounds like you found a really good guild for you there, despite them being terrible players. Just think about if you will keep contact with them, when you suddenly isn't in the same guild. You have to actively start talking with them, instead of just random stumble over each other.

[MoanaLisa]

If progression is truly more important to you than playing with friends then I guess you'll know what to do. Hopefully your friends will not get too insulted with you deciding that they're no longer good enough to make you want to really stay.

If the above makes you stop and think then you should stay.

In my world friends above progression. That's my world though.

[BabbleDabble]

Hopefully this weekend the GM and I can sit down and have a talk about the situation. Hopefully he'll understand where I'm coming from with the frustration.

[Kalibel]

If you really enjoy the company of your current guild, you could just stick with them but look to openraid to get your raiding fix. There are groups on openraid that raids either flex/normal weekly, so you can just join them without having to leave your guild.

[SL1200]

You're frustrated because you got further in Flex (easy mode) than your guild has been able to get in normal mode? I've noticed this attitude cropping up in my normal mode team too.

[Terridon]

You're frustrated because you got further in Flex (easy mode) than your guild has been able to get in normal mode? I've noticed this attitude cropping up in my normal mode team too.

As i understood it, they finally got through first wing of FLEX. Don't think they raid normal at all, which does make it somewhat bad.
"We finally got through the first wing of SoO on flex two weeks ago."

[SL1200]

As i understood it, they finally got through first wing of FLEX. Don't think they raid normal at all, which does make it somewhat bad.
"We finally got through the first wing of SoO on flex two weeks ago."

O it looks like I thought I read something that wasn't there. That's just the problem my guild is currently having. Sometimes this game can be frustrating.

We have a problem with a player who refuses to stack in the normal dark shamen encounter. He's telling us I don't have to stack in flex when i do it with this other guild, why do i have to do it here.

[Deleted]

Try raid leading, it reignited my own spark for raiding. I had a 2nights/week casual guild from LFR up to server 8th (1/13HC ToT) in 7 weeks back in 5.3
It's nicer to push the buttons than to stand back and watch

[Terridon]

O it looks like I thought I read something that wasn't there. That's just the problem my guild is currently having. Sometimes this game can be frustrating.

We have a problem with a player who refuses to stack in the normal dark shamen encounter. He's telling us I don't have to stack in flex when i do it with this other guild, why do i have to do it here.

We don't really stack on dark shaman, but yeah. You can get away with a lot more on flex, than normal. Some people learn bad habits from it. Surprised a couple of our players too after clearing flex, and then do normal afterwards
It's a great way to learn the mechanics though.

[BabbleDabble]

As i understood it, they finally got through first wing of FLEX. Don't think they raid normal at all, which does make it somewhat bad.
"We finally got through the first wing of SoO on flex two weeks ago."

This would be correct. My team just barely gets through the first wing of flex (my team doesn't do normal because people in the group can't handle it), yet I've done the first 2 wings with pugs. Earlier tonight the other team in my guild needed a fill-in DPS for their normal run and we got through the first wing in normal including their first downing of the sha. It was a great feeling to raid with a competent group of people, but they don't have a opening for a DPS, they just needed one tonight.

[Terridon]

This would be correct. My team just barely gets through the first wing of flex (my team doesn't do normal because people in the group can't handle it), yet I've done the first 2 wings with pugs. Earlier tonight the other team in my guild needed a fill-in DPS for their normal run and we got through the first wing in normal including their first downing of the sha. It was a great feeling to raid with a competent group of people, but they don't have a opening for a DPS, they just needed one tonight.

Ah you have a real raid in the guild. It's too set a group, that you get the chance to get in at some point, with a bit of patience(and luck)?

Edit:
Meaning. Do they find new people to the raid from time to time, or is it oldies that all have been there for years?

[Deleted]

I'd stick with your guild and do the runs with them.
Also...
I'd join open raid, sort out a vent server and arrange weekly events for flex, get to know people who CAN raid, and go from there.

After being in a similar situation I'd advise to keep the 2 groups completely separate due to the general attitude differences.
1. Guild groups is friends and - generally - you dont drop friends for being a bit crap
2. Flex groups if you perform low to the degree that you jeopardise the success of the run then you just get dropped.

DO NOT MIX THE TWO! You'll just piss of your friends and end up losing any new open-raiders from your runs. I'd also hold off inviting any really good people from your guild, might seem like a good idea but at some point it will get out and then accusations of elitism and all sorts of nastiness - just keep them separate. Think of one as work and one as hobby.

[Vaelorian]

If it were me I would stay and fix the situation if I were able. I would also have a chat with the GM. You should be able to speak freely about this if I read your comments right. Sure it might suck for the GM but I think he would admire your honesty.

Maybe he will fix the issue for you and replace this lowperforming person. If he doesn't and it is unbearable for you, then find a guild. But again, you might never find the same kind of "home" again.

[Nobleshield]

I am in this situation myself (roughly) so let me give you my train of thought: On one hand, I feel that I could do much better than I currently am. On the other hand, I like the people I game with (for the most part) and we get along great, and I'd actually feel bad leaving. I've tried to make things improve but it seems it's all for nought and we may get further one attempt, and then go right back to wiping early on. I think we're up to 25 wipes on Galakras (normal) right now, and I would be lying if I didn't say I was starting to get annoyed with it, and have this nagging voice in the back of my head constantly saying that I could do better than this.

The bottom line is this: If you remained in your current guild and you didn't get any further (without nerfs that is), would you be happy? If the answer is yes, and you would be happy playing with friends at the cost of progression, then stay (and by all means try to fix things as best you can). If the answer is no, and you would get tired/frustrated/burned out because you aren't progressing, then it's time to look elsewhere. Add your closest friends on BattleTag, maybe leave an alt or two in the guild (depending on your new raid schedule and theirs ofc) and wish them good luck. Ultimately, it's your enjoyment. If you aren't happy without progressing through a tier at a current pace (as I often get) then you're only going to end up not caring and eventually considering leaving.

As for what I would do... well I have feelers out there for new guilds, but I was open with my current guild about it. Leaving isn't 100% definite yet (but sadly getting more and more likely the more we wipe on Galakras), so take that as you will.

[Alopex Major]

From someone who has lost several so-called friends to other guilds/servers... if you really value them as friends, that's worth more than raids. It's easy to gear an alt now, do that if you absolutely must raid.

It's really not worth losing friendships over.