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  1. #101
    I think Flex has some challenge, but it's obviously not to the extent of normal and heroic modes. In Flex, you could really progress through the whole raid in one night. In normal and heroic it's hardly like that at all... could be stuck on a boss for weeks.
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  2. #102
    stop sucking?

    Infracted; Post construcitively.
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-10-19 at 12:16 PM.

  3. #103
    Warchief gutnbrg's Avatar
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    i did a flex grp with multiple people that had never seen the fights and we 1shot seigecrafter, 2 shot klaxxi, but we couldnt get garrosh down. We got him to 15% on our best attempt, then people had to go...

  4. #104
    Epic! lokithor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IsaacHawke View Post
    BLZ: Please reconsider your definition about FLEX which is made for FACEROLLER LFR players.
    Maybe because flex isn't made for LFR people?

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by IsaacHawke View Post
    Avr itemlvl 540+ pug team.
    PTR 13/2H Live 14/4H RL with Teamspeak.

    Result:
    26 wipes and we did not even defeat a single boss in the 4th wing of FLEX before disbanded.

    Btw, as a RL who organized at least 20+ pug teams, I am 100% sure there do exists FLEX MAGIC NUMBER. One of them is 14: 2 tanks 4 healers and 8 DPS.


    BLZ: Please reconsider your definition about FLEX which is made for FACEROLLER LFR players.

    GGHF

    - - - Updated - - -

    "overthinking"
    Well whoever says this, I am sure he never plays the game he makes.
    Flex is actually considerably easier than normal mode. If you for some reason are unable to handle normal mode, then Flex should be somewhat challenging for you. You should not steamroll it if you don't possess the raiding group to clear normal. If a player that started playing in MoP and that has stayed in LFRs this entire game suddenly goes to Flex, he'll see an incredible difference in difficulty even though it's not that hard compared to normal. The main difference isn't dps/healing/dmg mitigation requirement, but you actually have to follow tactics just about as good as if you do normal raids. You can cheese some of it away with gear, but it's really important that you do follow the tactics.

    You're not supposed to faceroll Flex unless you've already cleared 14/14 normal. I'd say Flex Garrosh is tuned to be very hard at ~520 ilvl as Garrosh normal is ~540. This being said, he's still supposed to bring quite a challenge to a 540 group on Flex if you're not experienced enough. Flex should be pugable, so 26 wipes might be a bit of an overkill, but instead of making forum threads about it, you could instead look into the wipes to see where you can improve. And if you don't want to improve, kick the one messing things up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lokithor View Post
    Maybe because flex isn't made for LFR people?
    Well it kinda is. It's for the top ~30% of the LFR players. (Completely made up number btw)
    EU first PG wave 30, come at me bros.

  6. #106
    Siegecrafter have far to little hp, the fight is over be4 it have barely begun. The weaponds on the asssembly line have very little hp so you only rly need to teach 2 ppl how to handle that. the aoe dmg from the add is very low compared to normal so theres no real risk of teh raid dying from that.

    klaxxi fight have very low hps and dps requirement as long as ppl pay attention to the very fiew mechanics that matters, again bosses have very low hp and die very fast (to fast imo, some bosses barely use the abilities be4 they are dead..)

    Garrosh aswell is a fight where the dmg is rly rly low, and you almost go into p3 be4 the 2nd intermission. IN p3 boss pretty much have time to use his abilities once then hes dead.

    I cant agree with you on that last flex part is hard.. its only hard if you ignore mechanics. follow the mechanics and you will see that the dps requirement and healing requirement is rly rly low. Just as low as all the other flex raids.

    and be4 you ask no i did not do it with a guildgrp. It was a pug and it worked fine.

  7. #107
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Did wing 4 tonight with 1 main healer and the rest alts/socials/pugs. One social had 518 another 540 and they had never seen wing 4 before. We 1 shot all bosses, ain't really that hard.

    Honestly, it's a L2P issue and if you think that Flex is supposed to be faceroll, I guess you got a wake-up call.....

  8. #108
    I cannot help but laugh to myself when I read this.

  9. #109
    If you're struggling with Garrosh, consider simply stacking up for everything. We had a group yesterday with some 5 mains and 15 friends/family members. P1 went really fast (2 waves) but all the phase 2 moving around that we do in normal mode proved too detrimental to our dps so we just stacked up and healed through everything with me calling out cooldowns. We 1-shot it after that.

    I'm convinced that this is going to be the LFR go-to tactic as well next week.

  10. #110
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    It's a little unforgiving, I think.

    We got blasty goblin guy down after some wipes but then hit the paragons and NOPE. Pull, wipe and learn is our usual motto but this is a massive clusterfuck of abilities.

    Too much stuff going on, fuck that. We'll go back after i've had time to trawl through loads of youtube videos etc, but it's a load of shit when your raid experience is basically following someone elses recipe for success.
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  11. #111
    The last few fights in SoO are complicated - just look at the length of the Icy Veins guides and the videos. With a guild+ group last night, Siegecrafter was easy and Paragons could be powered through. But people gave up on Garrosh, as failing mechanics leads to one-shots and people were not prepared to learn the fight through wipes just for Flex rewards. I'm not sure I will queue for this with pugs (oqueue etc), Garrosh is one of those fights like Ragnaros where simply over-gearing it does not trivialise it: pretty much everyone has to know and execute tactics.

  12. #112
    Mechagnome
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    I did it with only a single wipe...Because leader forgot to kill any engineers on garrosh apart from that we one shotted all 3 bosses. Everybody was in 540ish gear.

  13. #113
    Why do you WANT to beat it instantly? Come on, you're going to be doing this for like 8 more months, ffs. I know it's one of the easier difficulties, but that doesn't mean you should instantly roflstomp it if you're playing piss poor lol.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelond View Post
    I did it with only a single wipe...
    Had you and your group done it on normal first? Of course groups that can clear normal can easily clear a 30% nerfed version. But I'm impressed if people can just watch a video and kill flex Garrosh easily with no prior experience.

    Normally, I hate this but it's one of those fights where pugs demanding the achievement first would be justified.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    The last few fights in SoO are complicated - just look at the length of the Icy Veins guides and the videos. With a guild+ group last night, Siegecrafter was easy and Paragons could be powered through. But people gave up on Garrosh, as failing mechanics leads to one-shots and people were not prepared to learn the fight through wipes just for Flex rewards. I'm not sure I will queue for this with pugs (oqueue etc), Garrosh is one of those fights like Ragnaros where simply over-gearing it does not trivialise it: pretty much everyone has to know and execute tactics.
    Garrosh is INCREDIBLY gear dependent lol, look at Paragon being forced to solo heal it on heroic because of how high the DPS check in phase 3 is. More gear = More dps = 2 healing = Entire fight is easier to heal + the dps remains the same as if you were 1 healing it. Obviously you can't 'ignore' tactics, but the tactics are made much easier by the fact that you can skip most of every phase before they even get difficult with gear lol. With my guild average being around 558, with the dmg/hp of flex being somewhat around 30% less than normal, any guild with 540 ilvl should be able to steamroll through it.

    Honestly, the only part of the fight that remains a problem regardless of gear is the mind controls whenever he's empowered, as when people aren't grouped up at that time or they miss an interrupt, it can get very bad very fast. But still, more gear = faster dead MCs lol :3 - There's not many mechanics that will actually flat out one shot people like Ragnaros, most of the mechanics are just aoe damage, taking damage from it doesn't effect anyone else but yourself, unlike messing up geisers on rag or defile on LK or cutter beams on sinestra - Honestly, it's not that bad a fight, and if anything, it's one of the fights that will be the MOST trivialized with more gear.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    Flex isn't aimed at normal mode players. It's for those in between LFR and normal.

    I don't think these are overtuned though. It's made so you might spend a few weeks gearing up in the first 3 wings before you progress through the 4th. Flex isn't there for automatic kills before moving onto normal mode.
    I know I just put that in there since the OP says he's 10/12hc t15 and 2/14 hc t16 in his first post.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kreebs View Post
    It's indeed very hard. I expect a 20 % nerf within next week, ekse i quit the game.
    Or you could just stop being bad and you'll have no problem with it at all, "else I guit the game" lol.
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  17. #117
    I've just done Siegecrafter on Flex so far. It didn't seem excessively difficult.

    I've heard Garrosh is a step up, but, hey, last boss of the expansion.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  18. #118
    Warchief Velshin's Avatar
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    Some people unfortunately think flex is just as faceroll as LFR where you can almost avoid all of the bosses mechanics and still kill the boss easily...nope this is wrong in flex in fact you must pay attention to the bosses mechanics because you can actually wipe.

  19. #119
    Done all 4 wings with an OpenRaid group in about 2.5 - 3 hours, 0 wipes in all of instance. Now, pretty much everyone knew tactics for 11/14 from either normal or earlier flex and everyone was 530+ ilvl. That said, a lot of people had never done the last 3 bosses and we still oneshot them. All it takes is 2 minutes before pull for someone to quickly say what to do and what not to, and it falls over, really. I'm fairly confident that even if we didn't overgear it as much as we did, all it would change is take a bit longer per boss and possibly a wipe or two, but really, it's not THAT difficult. Just explain what to do quick and don't have people with no brain.

  20. #120
    Actually it's not that terribly difficult. But it really scales badly past 10 man. And it has little to do with actual difficulty, but rather there is an organizational problem.

    Mechanics like the Assembly Line which on 10 man is soloable, with 15 -20-25 people start requiring coordination. Or on Paragons adequate target switching etc. These things start becoming more difficult with larger number of players.

    Otherwise it's not terribly hard. I pugged it 10 man with an average team item level of 525-535. It took a few wipes (around 3 per boss, our tanks were 499 item level and 507) and a bit of refining, but it wasn't terribly hard.
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