Immature young or older people is the reason why Mists of Pandaria didn't "fit"..

[Tart]

Nothing will ever fit in Warcraft anymore. Ive just been on a thread about people bitching that there are to many mailboxes ffs.

[Himora]

kung fu pandaland was the worst thing to happen to the game.

[Taiknee]

I liked pandas so much better than worgen. The worgen starting zone is really cool, but the worgen models are so horrible, it just killed them for me and was a huge letdown from my POV. My highest level worgen is 14.

[KungFuFanta]

OP makes the assumption that many of us disliked pandaria since this expansion, even though we disliked chen and the way pandaren were introduced since Warcraft 3.

People keep saying how this game has talking cows and goats, but the problem isn't there, it's how they are presented. As I eagerly awaited Warcraft 3 and was scouting their magnificent webpage daily, I came upon the first image of a Tauren, which was was this (notice it doesn't even have a totem or any sort of "native American" influence this early):



Meanwhile, when pandaren made their appearance it was during an April Fool's joke from Blizzard, and their first presentation to the game was this:



Not that I was impressed, but it was fine, as Gnomes are no less ridiculous in many instances, but a smiling panda in traditional Chinese/Japanese outfit pasted in the middle of Warcraft just seemed off somehow. In its own game aside from Warcraft? It actually looked cool, but stuck in there, it was throwing off all immersion for some reason.

Now, come mists of pandaria. Once again, their presentation to the world came through: "Guys, this is not a joke.". Ugh...it's like a comedian coming on stage and saying "Guys, I really AM funny!". Which was fine once again, as we hadn't even seen the product. When we actually did, it didn't help at all.

.......

There is no reason to respect pandaren from a WARCRAFT standpoint. Greenpeace would probably love them, but their history is teeming with examples, especially recent, where if not for one guy or other people's intervention, they'd all gone to hell. It's a weak race with uninspiring examples of how they all crap their pants when dire situations arise, and get saved by some Zen emperor or one guy who teaches them kung fu or the Alliance and Horde.

A race of warrior monks who work fields all day and travel everywhere who are fat disgusting slobs? How does that make any sense? In what kung fu movie have we ever seen martial prowess combined with unrealistically out of shape kung fu masters? And it's not even as their entire race is capable of martial arts, it's just an elite sect. Once again, from a Warcraft standpoint, these people are useless. Lacking presentation, once again.

I don't know what impression of pandaren Blizzard wanted to give us, but whatever it was, I didn't get it. Did they want us to see pandaren as this:



or this:



Well, sorry guys, but China doesn't want to have its national animal be mixed with those Japanese people, so we'll give you a race with no in-game semblance of ferocity, but which we promise you, IT'S NOT A JOKE!@!!1111!!!11111111!!!!!.

Their presentation failed, their delivery failed, and thus they don't fit into the game, to this day, aside maybe from Taoshi.

[Deleted]

Really enjoyed the expansion and the new race/class. People who say MoP is childish or turning into Kung Fu Panda I tend to just laugh at, because they're usually people who're either extremely narrow minded or very dim.

[Deleted]

OP makes the assumption that many of us disliked pandaria since this expansion, even though we disliked chen and the way pandaren were introduced since Warcraft 3.

People keep saying how this game has talking cows and goats, but the problem isn't there, it's how they are presented. As I eagerly awaited Warcraft 3 and was scouting their magnificent webpage daily, I came upon the first image of a Tauren, which was was this (notice it doesn't even have a totem or any sort of "native American" influence this early):



Meanwhile, when pandaren made their appearance it was during an April Fool's joke from Blizzard, and their first presentation to the game was this:



Not that I was impressed, but it was fine, as Gnomes are no less ridiculous in many instances, but a smiling panda in traditional Chinese/Japanese outfit pasted in the middle of Warcraft just seemed off somehow. In its own game aside from Warcraft? It actually looked cool, but stuck in there, it was throwing off all immersion for some reason.

Now, come mists of pandaria. Once again, their presentation to the world came through: "Guys, this is not a joke.". Ugh...it's like a comedian coming on stage and saying "Guys, I really AM funny!". Which was fine once again, as we hadn't even seen the product. When we actually did, it didn't help at all.

.......

There is no reason to respect pandaren from a WARCRAFT standpoint. Greenpeace would probably love them, but their history is teeming with examples, especially recent, where if not for one guy or other people's intervention, they'd all gone to hell. It's a weak race with uninspiring examples of how they all crap their pants when dire situations arise, and get saved by some Zen emperor or one guy who teaches them kung fu or the Alliance and Horde.

A race of warrior monks who work fields all day and travel everywhere who are fat disgusting slobs? How does that make any sense? In what kung fu movie have we ever seen martial prowess combined with unrealistically out of shape kung fu masters? And it's not even as their entire race is capable of martial arts, it's just an elite sect. Once again, from a Warcraft standpoint, these people are useless. Lacking presentation, once again.

I don't know what impression of pandaren Blizzard wanted to give us, but whatever it was, I didn't get it. Did they want us to see pandaren as this:



or this:



Well, sorry guys, but China doesn't want to have its national animal be mixed with those Japanese people, so we'll give you a race with no in-game semblance of ferocity, but which we promise you, IT'S NOT A JOKE!@!!1111!!!11111111!!!!!.

Their presentation failed, their delivery failed, and thus they don't fit into the game, to this day, aside maybe from Taoshi.

Perfect post in every single way. But sure, you're probably going to get the same treatment as the others regardless.

[Gnome]

Whole bloody thread proves my point, but everyone keep repeating it.

Just stop, some like blue color, some like red color.
Some think ice cream is a must with chocolate cake, some think that is not.

What people enjoy, and what people think fits in the Warcraft universe, is up to each and everyone, for their own.
There is no facts here.

People sharing their opinion, and they tell them the other person is wrong cus he think brown color is ugly.
While the other think pink is the only color that fits in this room.

*facepalm* as I said, immaturity!

[KungFuFanta]

Whole bloody thread proves my point, but everyone keep repeating it.

Just stop, some like blue color, some like red color.
Some think ice cream is a must with chocolate cake, some think that is not.

What people enjoy, and what people think fits in the Warcraft universe, is up to each and everyone, for their own.
There is no facts here.

People sharing their opinion, and they tell them the other person is wrong cus he think brown color is ugly.
While the other think pink is the only color that fits in this room.

*facepalm* as I said, immaturity!

No you're just making general statements behind a thin veil of wisdom which you cast upon yourself. People were generally aghast at space ships in Warcraft, to the point where even METZEN apologized. People would likewise be aghast if Lord of The Rings Online developers suddenly gave the ability for people to carry M249 machine guns. Would it be cool? Kind of. Would it fit in LOTRO? Uuuuuuuuuuuuh no.

As I've said, most people don't even have anything against the idea of pandaren because of kung fu panda, but because of how they've been misrepresented since their introduction to the game. You can't just say "oh it's different tastes so you're not mature because you don't like mine". I'm giving arguments as to why I think pandaren don't fit, you're just ignoring everything and labeling everything as immaturity.

So by your logic, if Blizzard introduced tomorrow a race of pink bunnies who live inside carrots and use an energy called "Flufiness" to power their "Cuteness" attacks, and say 1% of the WoW population LOVED it, the entire 99% other part would be immature for thinking this is a dumb idea for Warcraft, provided they gave good arguments for it.

[KungFuFanta]

Jesus christ Kangodo how do you live with yourself posting this kind of weak stuff? I even acknowledged that races like Gnomes have always been silly, Warcraft has always had a measure of silliness, that wasn't my argument.

Taurent did NOT start off like that. If that would have been their original presentation you can be sure as hell I would have went "WTF is this?" when I first saw it. It was added later on for World of Warcraft just like units have funny things to say when you click on them many times in the RTS.

Tauren had presence and presentation when they first made their appearance, and it followed through with the WoW cinematic and in-game lore, regardless of their on the side complementary silly stuff. They're a proud and noble race and were so before they got a million Native American references in WoW and a silly dance.

Pandaren got a bad introduction, a bad re-introduction, some awesome artwork, a good cinematic presence, then the whole thing felt like it fell flat for that actual in-game introduction.

You're just taking the least significant and unrelated portion of the game and trying to pass it off as an entire argument.

[Louis CK]

Jesus christ Kangodo how do you live with yourself posting this kind of weak stuff? I even acknowledged that races like Gnomes have always been silly, Warcraft has always had a measure of silliness, that wasn't my argument.

Taurent did NOT start off like that. If that would have been their original presentation you can be sure as hell I would have went "WTF is this?" when I first saw it. It was added later on for World of Warcraft just like units have funny things to say when you click on them many times in the RTS.

Tauren had presence and presentation when they first made their appearance, and it followed through with the WoW cinematic and in-game lore, regardless of their on the side complementary silly stuff. They're a proud and noble race and were so before they got a million Native American references in WoW and a silly dance.

Pandaren got a bad introduction, a bad re-introduction, some awesome artwork, a good cinematic presence, then the whole thing felt like it fell flat for that actual in-game introduction.

You're just taking the least significant and unrelated portion of the game and trying to pass it off as an entire argument.

Gnomes and Dwarves are the only redeeming factor for Alliance! lol. Every other alliance race just looks stupid.

I loved my Gnome Prot Warrior back in BC... Was always fun tanking SSC with noggenfogger lmao

[KungFuFanta]

Which is exactly my point!
Pandaren have tons of dark, interesting and mature things on them.
But people can't stop focusing on ONE quest-hub with rabbits and the name of a racial-trait.

If we are talking about Pandaren then one small thing is suddenly enough to ruin the entire expansion.
But Kobolds and the other million jokes in other expansions was never a problem.
That seems like a gigantic bias, some people just want to dislike MoP and there is no discussion possible.

Maybe I can spell it out again: Some people don't agree with you.
Some people don't think that their presentation or the delivery failed and they think they do fit in this game.

No you don't have a point. You're just taking the last phrase of each of my posts completely ignoring all previous statements which show wrong you were in your previous post. I'm done wasting my time with you.

- - - Updated - - -

Gnomes and Dwarves are the only redeeming factor for Alliance! lol. Every other alliance race just looks stupid.

I loved my Gnome Prot Warrior back in BC... Was always fun tanking SSC with noggenfogger lmao

Don't get me wrong, I love gnomes and dwarves.

[Kelimbror]

The more I play, the more I realize this was the most complex and mature presentation of their brand of fantasy that they have done yet. Somehow it had more weight than a demonic invasion. It seems like they realized their audiences overall age has gotten older over the years, which is common sense, but the fact that they are developing for it is great.

I'm glad they have the good sense to be able to balance whimsical ideas that can be throwbacks to our younger years with pretty mature themes in a very emotive landscape for their developers. I hope they realize how great what they have designed is even against the sub loss and ever growing age of internet nerd ragery.

[KungFuFanta]

The more I play, the more I realize this was the most complex and mature presentation of their brand of fantasy that they have done yet. Somehow it had more weight than a demonic invasion. It seems like they realized their audiences overall age has gotten older over the years, which is common sense, but the fact that they are developing for it is great.

I'm glad they have the good sense to be able to balance whimsical ideas that can be throwbacks to our younger years with pretty mature themes in a very emotive landscape for their developers. I hope they realize how great what they have designed is even against the sub loss and ever growing age of internet nerd ragery.

Warcraft 3 was far more mature without insulting itself by introducing characters which downtalked to everyone as if we were all retarded and they were the supreme authority of the universe. Through Thrall and Jaina, we saw everything we saw in pandaria, minus all the extra unnecessary sugarcoating and feeling that we were being treated as bloodthirsty idiots with no intelligence. Ironically, this was also the game where pandaren appeared.

[khalltusk]

Warcraft 3 was far more mature without insulting itself by introducing characters which downtalked to everyone as if we were all retarded and they were the supreme authority of the universe. Through Thrall and Jaina, we saw everything we saw in pandaria, minus all the extra unnecessary sugarcoating and. Ironically, this was also the game where pandaren appeared.

In your opinion sure wc3 was more mature. It still had all the sillyness their games have (in my opinion).

Personally I think MOP has struck a balance on Mature/family friendly theme. Sure there are plenty of parodies and such while at the same time there are lots of darker elements. I have personally enjoyed the lore behind this expansion and the presentation of it both in AND out of game (the emperor animation stuff was very well done).

[KungFuFanta]

In your opinion sure wc3 was more mature. It still had all the sillyness their games have (in my opinion).

Personally I think MOP has struck a balance on Mature/family friendly theme. Sure there are plenty of parodies and such while at the same time there are lots of darker elements. I have personally enjoyed the lore behind this expansion and the presentation of it both in AND out of game (the emperor animation stuff was very well done).

I've stated about 3 times so far in this thread that I have nothing against silliness, and that's it's inherent to all Warcraft games ever since the clicking stuff lots of times to hear funny quotes and exploding sheep in Warcraft 2, however that silliness didn't really intrude in the main storyline and lore, it was on the side while playing the levels.

As you say though, pandaria struck a balance between mature/family friendly, which Warcraft didn't use to try to be as far as I remember. You'd never hear dads tell their kids "come on now children, gather around to see Arthas murder his father in cold blood."

[Zaelsino]

Pandaren got a bad introduction, a bad re-introduction, some awesome artwork, a good cinematic presence, then the whole thing felt like it fell flat for that actual in-game introduction.

I disagree. If anything, they went way overboard with seeding the pandaren; most races get a handful of quests and a starting zone, then maintain a token presence throughout the rest of the world... if that. Pandaren got an entire continent's worth of lore and backstory, not even counting the giant turtle island and stuff. Pandaren have a spectacular plethora of lore available now, more so than many other playable races.

The only thing they're lacking in is the Huojin and Tushui factions, which were both poorly implemented and boast no relevance beyond a cute blurb and their leaders' Romeo and Juliet love story. Especially the Horde one. My little panda wanted to pay that psychotic megalomaniac warchief his lip service and run right back to the turtle after meeting him, not join Mordor's standing army and swear to kill everyone who had better sense than she did.

[khalltusk]

I've stated about 3 times so far in this thread that I have nothing against silliness, and that's it's inherent to all Warcraft games ever since the clicking stuff lots of times to hear funny quotes and exploding sheep in Warcraft 2, however that silliness didn't really intrude in the main storyline and lore, it was on the side while playing the levels.

As you say though, pandaria struck a balance between mature/family friendly, which Warcraft didn't use to try to be as far as I remember. You'd never hear dads tell their kids "come on now children, gather around to see Arthas murder his father in cold blood."

Yeh I think its fair to say they struck a balance between seriousness and fun/silly in this expansion. I think thats part of the allure of the expansion for me. It was about fun and exploration. We have had 2 back to back expansions of "I AM ENDING THE WORLD" while TBC had a villain and a clear one it still had some exploration feel to it and didnt feel like the world would end until KJ turned up.

[Deleted]

I don't understand why you feel the need to make excuses for MoP, or pretend people didn't love it.
It's been very widely well received, unsurprisingly, it is a very good expansion, with lots of lore, content and Pandaria is damned pretty.

[Kelimbror]

*snip*

Your attempt at arguing against my opinion has completely revolutionized my way of thinking and I now see that you are so right! Why I would ever think for myself and hold my own views that are different than yours is beyond me at this point. From now on you can form all my opinions on World of Warcraft and I'm gong to unsub. Thank you for your help.

Oh wait, I happen to have my own opinion and I expressed it. There's nothing to argue with. I've been wanting to send them a good message commending them on a job well done, maybe I'll do it today in your honor. Great expansion is great. Great story is great. Great design is great.

Not enough superlatives in the world to disagree with you on the appropriate level. Sincere thank you for reinforcing how pleasurable it is to simply enjoy something, especially when other people try to convince others they should hate it. I'll hug a Pandaren or two for you today.

[KungFuFanta]

Your attempt at arguing against my opinion has completely revolutionized my way of thinking and I now see that you are so right! Why I would ever think for myself and hold my own views that are different than yours is beyond me at this point. From now on you can form all my opinions on World of Warcraft and I'm gong to unsub. Thank you for your help.

Oh wait, I happen to have my own opinion and I expressed it. There's nothing to argue with. I've been wanting to send them a good message commending them on a job well done, maybe I'll do it today in your honor. Great expansion is great. Great story is great. Great design is great.

Not enough superlatives in the world to disagree with you on the appropriate level. Sincere thank you for reinforcing how pleasurable it is to simply enjoy something, especially when other people try to convince others they should hate it. I'll hug a Pandaren or two for you today.

Believe it or not I actually have a level 90 pandaren female rogue because I think it looks really cool in Van Cleef tier armor. Would I be really sad if they decided to retcon pandaren tomorrow and I'd lose my rogue? Just a bit disappointed, because I feel no attachment to their lore otherwise. They've taught me nothing that Thrall and Jaina didn't try to teach me already, and they've done nothing to inspire me as a Warcraft race.

The only reason I answered your post was because I felt this line "I hope they realize how great what they have designed is even against the sub loss and ever growing age of internet nerd ragery." implied that those of us critiquing it are nothing but nerd ragers, which I tried to demonstrate is not true through what I hope was reasonable language and temperament in my response..