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  1. #281
    Stood in the Fire andraxion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memory View Post
    Yeah, I was thinking of this, I should have addressed it already but I thought I'd wait for the objection. Indeed, if you count ToGC / ICC fights that changed and compare them with T7 / T8 ones that changed as well, you may end up with similar quantities (although the only T9/T10 hard mode that impressed me was probably Twins - pugging it, though; 10 man obviously). So, if you look at the level of challenge, it didn't decrease, but the general feeling was still different. Anyway I shouldn't pursue this line of thought or it will end into 'why the Burning Crusade was better', which this thread is not meant to be about.
    ToGC25 was on an entirely different level. Anub'Arak still ranks up there with one of the most frustrating fights I've done. I was a PC healer and if someone else messed up, it would topple down like a jenga tower. Missed a BoP on someone when hes emerged? Whoops. Miss an ice patch? Whoops. Miss the shadow strike interrupt? Whoops. Now Faction champs was easy because you could stack DKs and AoE everything down. Before door strat, valks were pretty complicated with bad players. 10 man was group it up, AoE it down.
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  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    Yeah but ilvl 226 loot from Ignis got disenchanted pretty quickly. Once we got seriously into hardmode progression, Ignis and Razorscale generally got skipped.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Gotta disagree with you there mate. While you did pick out the few Ulduar hardmodes that changed drastically, there's plenty of others that only changed slightly(Thorim, XT, Vezax) or didn't change at all due to not having a hardmode.

    On Twin Valk's the colour swaps actually mattered. Anub'Arak with only 6(?) ice patches for the entire fight drastically changed how you approached it.
    Deathwhisper with adds still coming in phase 2. Putricide with the double ooze phase. Lich King had a completely different phase 3 on heroic.
    You forgot the disease thing you passed on Putricide. Lich king H also had shadow traps and insanely tuned valkyr HP that basically dictated wether you had the dps or "aoe" to kill the fight or not.

    Halion Heroic was on a whole new level on Hardmode. Then we had T11. That tier alone each fight difference going to heroic. Superb!

    Lets be honest here Mimiron and Yogg aka the 2 most memorable hardmode fights from Ulduar were infact basically interface mode. Hit a button. OH SHIT, or pray someone doesn't talk to a keeper. Thats it! Fuck I wish Vezak had a toggle. Do you know how boring it is to AFK that dude while waiting for the Animus?

    Not like it matters. They can bring back to old design once in awhile like they did with protectors so you can make ULTRA HEROIC fights.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by andraxion View Post
    ToGC25 was on an entirely different level. Anub'Arak still ranks up there with one of the most frustrating fights I've done. I was a PC healer and if someone else messed up, it would topple down like a jenga tower. Missed a BoP on someone when hes emerged? Whoops. Miss an ice patch? Whoops. Miss the shadow strike interrupt? Whoops. Now Faction champs was easy because you could stack DKs and AoE everything down. Before door strat, valks were pretty complicated with bad players. 10 man was group it up, AoE it down.
    What this guy said. Anub Arak H was a great fight. However, I still regret he wasn't a raid boss in Azjol. That scrapped raid idea is the biggest upset of all of Wotlk 2nd only to Ulduar being current for only 4 months.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-10-19 at 04:17 PM.

  3. #283
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    It's fondly remembered because it was without a doubt and by far the best raid-dungeon in the expansion. Apart from Ulduar I thought the PVE-content in WotLK was very underwhelming, but that place gave me at least one raid which had the epicness of the older TBC-raids. It gave me power to endure the shitfests that was TotC and ICC.

  4. #284
    Good amount of interesting bosses.

    Good story.

    Excellent design, felt like a real place more than the endless linear corridors that many other raids have.

    Yogg Saron. Algalon.

    Non binary hard modes.

    There's just a lot to love there.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  5. #285
    Pre-heroic era.
    They did have hardmode you could switch on but it worked very differently. And we all LOVED IT. Then blizzard fucked us in the ass with making heroics etc
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  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draahl View Post
    Pre-heroic era.
    They did have hardmode you could switch on but it worked very differently. And we all LOVED IT. Then blizzard fucked us in the ass with making heroics etc
    How did it fuck us exactly? I sure wish we still had Vezak or XT modes where ppl fucking up activated or deactivated heroic. Or toggles where one tard could destroy the entire lockout by talking to a keeper. Oh yes thank you blizzard for "fucking us over"

    I sometimes question people who were so enthralled with the HM ulduar activation. How many of you actually killed those hardmodes? Rarity of Mimirons Head even though it was faceroll farmable for 1.5 years after Ulduar was obsolete would suggest to me that less then 10 posters in here achieved this feat. Thank god though. Now when I kill "heroic fights" I get superior gear then Joenormal mode who in Ulduar could get the exact same thing while killing normal mode.

    Since then encounter design has become so complex and normal mode so laid back the since then nowadays many boss abilities are pointless or ignored outside the heroic scene.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-10-19 at 05:34 PM.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Draahl View Post
    Pre-heroic era.
    They did have hardmode you could switch on but it worked very differently. And we all LOVED IT. Then blizzard fucked us in the ass with making heroics etc
    I think heroics were the best idea Blizzard has had. "Naxx10 too easy, SWP too hard" making 2 versions of the raid keeps everyone happy.

  8. #288
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    It had everything you could want in a raid. Just to name a few:

    Challenging bosses with fun mechanics, they gave great gratification.

    Optional bosses, non-linear.

    Very pleasing asthetics, beautiful zone and artwork.

    Large raid, it felt huge. You actually had breathing room. It felt like a giant castle you were infiltrating. Towering walls and pillars, large regal halls with strange and beautiful visuals.

    OOOOBLIVVIIOOONNNN!!!!
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  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nearmyth View Post
    It had everything you could want in a raid. Just to name a few:

    Challenging bosses with fun mechanics, they gave great gratification.

    Optional bosses, non-linear.

    Very pleasing asthetics, beautiful zone and artwork.

    Large raid, it felt huge. You actually had breathing room. It felt like a giant castle you were infiltrating. Towering walls and pillars, large regal halls with strange and beautiful visuals.

    OOOOBLIVVIIOOONNNN!!!!
    sounds like every other raid in the history of WoW. Perhaps barring ToC and Dragon soul.

    "Optional bosses" gets thrown around too much too. Nothing in actual raiding is optional. If it's able to be killed. It's going to be killed.

    Also Ulduar was Far from optional. Inevitably the kill order you would do changes as nerfs make fights easier but mostly everyone started with Hodir/Thorim which were faceroll and Ultimately progressed towards Freya+3, Firefight, Agalon, then yogg0 as the end stretch grind. ICC was optional too, As was T11. There are reasons people didn't kill Deathwhisper or things like Ascendant Council. Until late tier. Same thing swings for ToT recently you usually started farming Iron Qon/Consorts before Dark Animus/Durumu.

    Can't really talk about normal mode mixmatch alt/main the first week. That isn't raiding and the only "optional" thing in there is how many runs you decide on running.

    Obviously the vast majority of players are going to have a very different PoV then me. For me it's not a question if something is going to die but when.

    In short, ALL raids have optional bosses because difficulty has never been exactly "linear" They came really close with Siege though!
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-10-19 at 05:59 PM.

  10. #290
    because the other 3 raids are so very bad in comparison,
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  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Orcindauh View Post
    I think heroics were the best idea Blizzard has had. "Naxx10 too easy, SWP too hard" making 2 versions of the raid keeps everyone happy.
    Not when they give the same loot. LFR, normal, heroic loot all have the same name, same icon, same color, same stat distribution. I will not put effort into heroics as long as retards can get the same rewards in LFR.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    Do they like something you don't? [√]Yes []No
    Did it occur in the past? [√]Yes []No
    Nostalgia

    It's science.
    But not bro-science... perhaps mmo-science?

  13. #293
    I have a love/hate relationship with Ulduar. I love that it was a big raid, with optional ways to do bosses, an (IMO) superior trigger mechanic for heroic bosses instead of a stupid menu toggle, and the lore behind it (even if it's slightly odd we'd bother killing an old god while the LK was still kicking, though it wasn't nearly as dumb as playing joust outside his doorstep).

    What I hate? It brings back bad memories of the guild I was in at the time; those fuckers can die in a firestorm for all I care.

  14. #294
    One short answer, could be that the raid after it, was so poor by comparison (ToC)

    However it had a great story build up across 2(3?) zones, supporting buildup in 5 man dungeons, a real feel of story when you went there, the unexpected, great design, great artwork for the bosses and the rooms.

    I also enjoyed it as the heroic modes have variety to them (such as the deconstructor fight, which after killing the heart, had very little similarity to normal mode)

    Then ToC came...

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Halbarad View Post
    One short answer, could be that the raid after it, was so poor by comparison (ToC)

    However it had a great story build up across 2(3?) zones, supporting buildup in 5 man dungeons, a real feel of story when you went there, the unexpected, great design, great artwork for the bosses and the rooms.

    I also enjoyed it as the heroic modes have variety to them (such as the deconstructor fight, which after killing the heart, had very little similarity to normal mode)

    Then ToC came...
    Also the raid before Ulduar was very poor, in that it was a rehashed faceroll debasing version of Naxx.

    Ulduar shone bright between two shit tiers.

  16. #296
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    I liked it. But the loops you had to jump through to get shit killed got lame. I recall a blue post where they said not many people full clearing ulduar
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    People doing below 200k dps? Ain't nobody got time for that.
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    Why? Why should content be gated behind skill?
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  17. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Instead of toggling heroic mode on you had to:
    #1 pray noone griefed you or some tard talked to keepers.
    #2 Kill a boss faster! SO HEROIC!
    #3 Choose NOT to afk on Thorim
    #4 Hit a red button.
    #5 Not AFK on XT
    #6 AFK on Vezak

    Oh yes those inventive hardmode triggers. Thank god the quickly swapped to a proper system quickly thereafter.If it wasn't for that we would still have 5+ Filler bosses that only have normal mode included.
    It was friendly to the player base for control. You didn't have to down Yogg in order to get gear that had higher ilvl. Your group had control of where they wanted to steer the raid towards. Maybe try 1 HM for the evening. Maybe get that one achievement.


    Heroics have the higher tuning. They're Blizzards true envision of an encounter, I get it. They have finale phases and abilities. But it's the same bosses. You're in the same instance. You're just forced to spend longer hours wiping on bosses with the entire instance turned on a HM pretty much.


    I dislike the lock outs now. LFR, flex, normal, and heroic. It has been a clusterfuck for having people being saved and reforming the raid or seeing if the IDs will bug out. It's gotten a bit more polished out but goddess it's just so much of the same content with cute illvls being your 'good job' award.
    Quote Originally Posted by r03dz View Post
    Also, Jaina and Vereesa going for a rid on their skeleton horses. :P (typo intended)
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  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    How did it fuck us exactly? I sure wish we still had Vezak or XT modes where ppl fucking up activated or deactivated heroic. Or toggles where one tard could destroy the entire lockout by talking to a keeper. Oh yes thank you blizzard for "fucking us over"

    I sometimes question people who were so enthralled with the HM ulduar activation. How many of you actually killed those hardmodes? Rarity of Mimirons Head even though it was faceroll farmable for 1.5 years after Ulduar was obsolete would suggest to me that less then 10 posters in here achieved this feat. Thank god though. Now when I kill "heroic fights" I get superior gear then Joenormal mode who in Ulduar could get the exact same thing while killing normal mode.

    Since then encounter design has become so complex and normal mode so laid back the since then nowadays many boss abilities are pointless or ignored outside the heroic scene.
    Those still served a purpose. if someone in your raid talked to the keepers after being told not to, you knew not to bring that retard next time. The great thing with XT was, the heart was a controlled dps race. If the people you play with make such mistakes, you played with some pretty shit players.

  19. #299
    Ulduar has a hardmode that you initiate by pushing a really large red button.

    No other reason is needed.

  20. #300
    I liked ulduar because in all honesty it felt like the mechanics were ahead of its time. It felt like blizzard put more time in ulduar than they had put in any raid until ToT or SoO.

    Thats just how I feel. My favorite fights in there are just, I can't pick out any. Thats the thing, I liked every single fight in there and it was so pleasing to do it. If I could I would gather a group of 80's, lock experience at 80, and just take us in there with tier 7 gear and do it all over again just to go "ooh aww, good times yes"

    Its a hard concept to explain, but the best way I can is that the mechanics felt so far ahead of its time compared to naxx/toc/icc that they actually put work into it and it was the first time when a 'hard mode' was introduced and it was enabled via a mechanic not a button which also brought alot of appeal to it.

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