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  1. #301
    I was a hardcore raider through all of TBC and into the beginnings of wrath. I didn't even finish every hardmode in Ulduar but I knew it was the best raid dungeon Blizzard had ever designed until that point. People love to talk about TBC raids being great, but honestly they were some of the worst designed raid instances. Karazhan and Sunwell were really the only two well design raids. Everything else was shit. Ulduar was well laid out, evenly paced, well balanced, and had content for every spectrum of player. The noobs could farm the easy mode bosses, and the hardest of the hardcore had 0 Light Yogg to tackle. The hardmodes were interesting and introduced new mechanics. The instance was NOT LINEAR, and this was huge. They took a page out of Naxxramas design for this, and honestly I wish every raid was this way. The hardmodes were no joke, it was a significant event when the first guild downed Firefighter, 0 Light, Algalon, tc. It is still to this day the most varied and interesting raid when it comes to boss design, instance design, and overall accessibility for everyone.
    Last edited by orioxez; 2013-10-19 at 09:46 PM.

  2. #302
    The Lightbringer Tekkommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Being such a "Hardcore" raider in Naxx as you claimed. I'm just surprised.
    He was also 10 man haha, which was easymode, basically the level of LFR (well tbh even easier as 25 man naxx was easier than LFR).
    Last edited by Tekkommo; 2013-10-20 at 12:12 AM.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    He was also 10 man haha, which was easymode, basically the level of LFR (well tbh even easier as 25 man naxx was easier than LFR).
    25 Naxx required some coordination. LFR is completely utterly filled with players who do not care about fights or any content except for the epics. And those players down bosses just by running around and dpsing random stuff with no strategy. The game has never been easier than LFR.

  4. #304
    The Lightbringer Tekkommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gee View Post
    25 Naxx required some coordination
    No it didn't.

  5. #305
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    He was also 10 man haha, which was easymode, basically the level of LFR (well tbh even easier as 25 man naxx was easier than LFR).
    Uhhhhh In wotlk you cleared both modes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scarson View Post
    Not when they give the same loot. LFR, normal, heroic loot all have the same name, same icon, same color, same stat distribution. I will not put effort into heroics as long as retards can get the same rewards in LFR.
    With this kind of attitude I doubt clearing Heroic was ever an option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrun View Post
    I liked it. But the loops you had to jump through to get shit killed got lame. I recall a blue post where they said not many people full clearing ulduar
    That isn't a bad thing

  6. #306
    Mechagnome Bad Ashe's Avatar
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    uld is one of my favs too, but i did always have 1 gripe about it. its just too big and empty, you could scale the entire geography and architecture down by at least 20% without affecting anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    No it didn't.
    actually, it did.

    besides trying to say naxx "needed" to be hard is kindof retarted, naxx was the intro raid. like kara. kara was stupid-easy too, for a reason: it was the intro raid, first tier, cant be hard because there isnt any gear before it raid.
    i say a lot of things.
    some of them may be sarcastic, rude, or insulting.
    but if you read carefully, i dont aim to insult people, and very rarely trolling ~ its my honest opinion. if you think im talking about you, go get some coffee and read it again later.
    have a nice day.

  7. #307
    Bloodsail Admiral Manabomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muezick View Post
    Nostalgia, wrath babies...oh and, Cataclysm sucked ass by comparison.

    Infracted.
    To be fair, this basically sums it up. I will note that in a time where you had rehashed Naxxaramas on one side and two loot pinatas (maly and sarth) on the other, Ulduar following it (and subsequently ToC after that) made Ulduar stand out as a bright gem surrounded by shit. ICC was one of these gems, but ICC was also the first to show us that if you stare at a gem too long it really starts to bring out the flaws.

    Basically Ulduar was a good raid in an expansion that either had shit raids or raids that were good and lasted entirely too long and was followed up by cataclysm. T11 content wasn't bad and was actually on the same level of Ulduar in my opinion, but for me Firelands and Dragonsoul ruined what little fun and/or challenge t11 content gave.

    But also let me point out, Ulduar is by no means the "best" raid patch. It just looked/felt nice because everything else in that time was simply subpar. Hell, Ulduar and ToT are similar in that regard except SoO is actually besting Ulduar on many fronts. (All of this being opinion based.)
    Reduce- Iconic class abilities, complexity and meaningful rotations, usefulness of any one class in a raid group
    Reuse- A continent from 3 expansions ago, a story arch from 3 games ago, characters that would otherwise be dead
    Recycle- A beaten to death plot-line, the nostalgia goggles for TBC, bossfight mechanics that make patchwerk seem complex
    The three R's of Warlords of Draenor and that doesn't even mention flying, #savekarabor, blizzard store, tier to tier ilvl skips.

  8. #308
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angarin View Post
    I liked ulduar because in all honesty it felt like the mechanics were ahead of its time. It felt like blizzard put more time in ulduar than they had put in any raid until ToT or SoO.

    Thats just how I feel. My favorite fights in there are just, I can't pick out any. Thats the thing, I liked every single fight in there and it was so pleasing to do it. If I could I would gather a group of 80's, lock experience at 80, and just take us in there with tier 7 gear and do it all over again just to go "ooh aww, good times yes"

    Its a hard concept to explain, but the best way I can is that the mechanics felt so far ahead of its time compared to naxx/toc/icc that they actually put work into it and it was the first time when a 'hard mode' was introduced and it was enabled via a mechanic not a button which also brought alot of appeal to it.
    Did you do T11?

    Mechanics ahead of it's time.......... Like what exactly? Granted Yogg0 was ultra unique, but they have pulled that off multiple times with Finale bosses. <Ragnaros/LK/KJ/Al akir/Nefarian>

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    T11

    Al'akir, Sinestra, Cho'gall, Nefarian, You also experience Neptulon, Ragnaros, Deathwing while leveling. And to an extrend more introduction to Azshara's naga and her deeper motives in the story. N'zoth played a puppeter role

    MoP is fresh lore but the troll council in ToT was a huge lore throwback especially the frost troll king Malakk making an appearance finally.

    The entire zone of Org is faction leaders and named orcs horde players have interacted with in the city for years. Most of them are dying. Likely see a NPC gut and refurbish in the post org 5.5 prepatch.

    Nevermind the paragons encounter which while being fresh lore should have MORE then enough lore buildup.

    I guess you are wrong.
    Maybe I just liked the buildup more in that expansion than the past couple. Plus the end boss wasn't totally awful like deathwing and garrosh.

  10. #310
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    To be fair, this basically sums it up. I will note that in a time where you had rehashed Naxxaramas on one side and two loot pinatas (maly and sarth) on the other, Ulduar following it (and subsequently ToC after that) made Ulduar stand out as a bright gem surrounded by shit. ICC was one of these gems, but ICC was also the first to show us that if you stare at a gem too long it really starts to bring out the flaws.

    Basically Ulduar was a good raid in an expansion that either had shit raids or raids that were good and lasted entirely too long and was followed up by cataclysm. T11 content wasn't bad and was actually on the same level of Ulduar in my opinion, but for me Firelands and Dragonsoul ruined what little fun and/or challenge t11 content gave.

    But also let me point out, Ulduar is by no means the "best" raid patch. It just looked/felt nice because everything else in that time was simply subpar. Hell, Ulduar and ToT are similar in that regard except SoO is actually besting Ulduar on many fronts. (All of this being opinion based.)
    Exactly, summed it up nicely.

  11. #311
    Dreadlord Winterstrife's Avatar
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    I liked TOGC raid better, Onyxia-style.
    Straight to bosses, no trash & the fights themselves were pretty fun. Only thing that sucked hard were the armor designs for that tier.
    Overuse of model with slight alterations here & there, & the dammed recolors, ugh.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...trife/advanced
    WoW: Winterstrife, Level 90 Human Paladin | ESO: S'trife, Veteran Rank 12 Khajiit Nightblade | GW2: Winter Strife, Level 80 Charr Warrior.

  12. #312
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    Maybe I just liked the buildup more in that expansion than the past couple. Plus the end boss wasn't totally awful like deathwing and garrosh.
    Deathwing was handled poorly. That is universally accepted. Garrosh will never be as appealing as Arthas. That is just a certainty but for "Fresh on the spot lore" the succeded marvelously with MoP.

    If Firelands had been bigger, and Dragon soul was a raid worthy raid finale on the STRONG foundation that the ENTIRE REVAMPED WORLD and huge fantastic intro tier the expac launched strong with. We would have a very different tune playing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterstrife View Post
    I liked TOGC raid better, Onyxia-style.
    Straight to bosses, no trash & the fights themselves were pretty fun. Only thing that sucked hard were the armor designs for that tier.
    Overuse of model with slight alterations here & there, & the dammed recolors, ugh.
    ToGC will ALWAYS stand out as the raid that took the place of what COULD have been the Azjol Nerub raid. It was a colossal failure that came months too early and should of just been a side tournament daily hub and 5 man only. Azjol SHOULD of happened.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    Back when healing was just a mindless spam because mana never mattered? (we basically had the same as a dps rotation) Indeed it was fun, but far too easy and I am glad they fixed it in Cata.

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    Actually Naxx and the 5 mans did (at a far fetch late TBC did). Just because you went back in a group to do the Ulduar achievements in ICC gear didn't make them cool.

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    You should pay more attention to the quests then. It's funny that you call them nostalgia trolls. Plus to show how much of an idiot you are, to this date, they have only sold one guy on the box since wotlk, and we all pretty much agree that they ruined a great character like Deathwing.
    Everything you said got lost when you called me an idiot. this ring a bell? http://www.thetanooki.com/wp-content...TA_3D_D_FR.jpg Also the only reason they didnt put garrosh on the box is because they were trying to sell the pandas but after blizzcon you already knew you were gonna kill garrosh. So they still sold the big bad guy without having to put him on the box.

  14. #314
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Also don't get me wrong Barnabas <3 I loved the TBC and Wrath buildup to the raids too. Cata DID work but it felt kinda.... disjointed... MoP story threads are all over the place but they give u good indicators for the Heart of Fear/ Throne of Thunder raids. I guess you can say the storylines played out and 5.1 was the major buildup towards SoO.

    Overall I think it worked well because in all these instances I always understood who the factions were that I was fighting against. This was pretty hard to follow in Cata with the MANY factions within the old god's fold.

  15. #315
    The first three things that come to mind on why I always remember Ulduar so fondly: Firefighter, Knock-Knock-Knock on wood, and Alone in the Darkness.

    Some of the best fights ever designed in WoW. Better than Anything Vanilla had (minus original 4h, and Heigan the Unclean), TBC.. sure Kael'thas looked cool transitioning, but the fight itself wasn't very glamorous. SWP had some cool bosses, but nothing memorable mechanically speaking. Ulduar brought something truly unique in terms of game mechanics (seige warfare), variety of hardmode activation (fuck this drop menu bullshit), boss approach (you couldn't do Freya on hardmode the same way you did in on normal), unique boss encounter mechanics (vezax with his "no base/potion mana regen", thorim's "aura of cerelity" M/C game),and just generally memorable boss encounters... EVERYONE remembers firefighters, and all levels on Yogg-saron. Sartharion 3D share's some of these traits.. but not all (lava wall will always make people think bad thoughts)..

  16. #316
    Naxx40 at lv 70 was harder than Naxx 10/25 ever were.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by chrth View Post
    I think the main reason people fondly remember it is because they never had a chance to get sick of it - ToC came out about 3.5 months after Ulduar was released
    yep 2 soon.
    blizz could have waited for an other month with it easy.

  18. #318
    I was a casual, I just didn't have time to raid (working 2 jobs) but when I was free like an hour or so I was always able to still Raid in Ulduar, the first four encounters were very casual friendly, the Flame Lev. Boss was free loot, and XT wasn't difficult at all. It gave me a sense of accomplishment and some raid loot, even though I never made it past the first few bosses. Man I miss those days so much! I was in a good decent guild, everyone was filled with anticipation for ICC! Oh sigh those were the days!

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    I think the game was good when it had a good balance of short raids and long ones, it gave people who didn't have time to sit for hours a chance to raid too, as well as people who wanted to fully immerse themselves into a 4 hour raid they may do so in Ulduar. Its why WOTLK was my fav expo, I felt like the game had achieve this precarious balance between hardcore and casual.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Did you do T11?

    Mechanics ahead of it's time.......... Like what exactly? Granted Yogg0 was ultra unique, but they have pulled that off multiple times with Finale bosses. <Ragnaros/LK/KJ/Al akir/Nefarian>
    Well, the tier you quote will go down in history as the point at which WoW started to bleed subs. You can say what you want, that's a stigma, no other tier prior to it has to live with. Hell, one could argue evn the lame updates like WoW voice chat were better for subs than T11.
    Also, If you follow blue posts, blizzard themselves admit that the problem with opening raids of cata is that there was no learner raid, it was all super-hardcore-level.
    I wonder sometimes, how can your love for blizzard be so irrational that even when blizz them self admit a mistake, you refuse to see it?

  20. #320

    lold

    Quote Originally Posted by rebecca191 View Post
    Naxx40 at lv 70 was harder than Naxx 10/25 ever were.
    What a total noob. This guy didnt even raid naxx 40. The raid was during classic wow, jerk. lvl 60!

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