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  1. #261
    Titan City
    Old God of Death
    Algalon the Observer(herald of the titans)
    Epic Music
    New Mechanics for Hard-Modes
    You could drive a vehicle inside while fighting with a big train.
    Titans/big robots/faceless.

    If you think it's only because Nostalgia, then you are probably an idiot.

  2. #262
    Legendary! MasterHamster's Avatar
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    Because it lasted about 8 weeks in total? No one had time to get bored of it. :3
    And that it was pretty much the first raid in WoWs history to have a large amount of mechanics that wasn't some raid specifically tailored for top-end players like Naxx60 or Sunwell.
    Active WoW player Jan 2006 - Aug 2020
    Occasional WoW Classic Andy since.
    Nothing lasts forever, as they say.
    But at least I can casually play Classic and remember when MMORPGs were good.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Titan City
    Old God of Death
    Algalon the Observer(herald of the titans)
    Epic Music
    New Mechanics for Hard-Modes
    You could drive a vehicle inside while fighting with a big train.
    Titans/big robots/faceless.

    If you think it's only because Nostalgia, then you are probably an idiot.
    One of the things I disliked about Ulduar, it may have been original but imo that fight was total shit. Hope they never make a fight again where everyone is required to be in a vehicle.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    You wanna talk about a 100% quality raid tier? That would be Tier 11 of Cata, As opposed to 1-2 difficult fights T11 was punishment the entire way through. It was glorious.
    You can't be serious. Yes, the fights were tough, but fun?

    BWD - Omnotron was hectic and fun, that was about it. For some reason I found Atramedes a bit nifty, but I have no idea why.
    BoT - Every single fight sucked except the last phase of council and Cho'gall (Subtlety rogues get to claim double dragons too)
    TotFW - lol
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    Three reasons, all pretty straightforward
    -it limits encounter design when you have to fit in a hardmode activation somewhere
    -some of them were too easy to mess up accidentally. Killing Hodir in 3 minutes and 1 second. Getting to Thorim too fast and having to wait for Sif to leave. Accidentally killing an add on Vezax. Accidentally killing XT's heart. Talking to the wrong NPC on FL.
    -it felt silly to be deliberately making things harder on yourself by action or inaction. Though they did give a lore reason for the Keeper hardmodes, because you needed to do so for the Algalon key. By why for example would you take on Yogg without the aid of the Keepers?

    In particular with Vezax and Thorim the problem was since the hardmode only gets activated halfway through the fight, the early bit is extremely boring.
    The best hardmodes were those which, surprise surprise, have you choose the hardmode at the start. Mimiron, Freya, Yogg. So they just kept that design going forward.
    Good reasons, tho I'm still not convinced.

    It doesn't limit encounter design by itself, the designers can screw up. Hodir HM was yeah, let's say it, fucking stupid, but Mimiron HM radically changed the whole fight, same about Freya or Assembly. Hell, Flame Leviathan is an amazing example of how far can you go with this design and how many choices you have. Want a pussy version of boss, a kinda hardish version of boss, or maybe a what-the-fuck-is-happening version (still easy as hell tho)? Your choice. And again, it was never a menu click. currently half of the game is a damn menu, back in Ulduar era you actually did something to make the fight harder. Can't say I feel a 3rd ball growing when I choose "10 man Heroic", but there certainly is something cool with the Big Red Button.

    And about this "silly feeling" - well, I thought about it as well. But first of all, come on, it's a game, it can be a bit stupid time to time. Secondly, is it really that stupid? Sometimes it's just an element of mechanics, like XT, and you can easily and nicely fit that to the lore as "the adventurers didn't know how fucked they gonna be after a perfectly good plan of destroying the heart". And Yogg-Saron and the Keepers? Quite silly that you don't want the titans to help you, alright. But check that - you are on a mission to destroy a GOD. And when approached by four 20 meter high constructs capable of leveling a city who suggest they may help you, what do you say? You say no. Because you are a hardcore heroic raider and thats how you roll.

    Imagine it in current WoW. Jin'Rokh example. You are standing in front of this boss, and a Shado-Pan dude shows up. You talk to him, and he says "Don't worry adventurers, I will bind his electric powers, so he will be severly weakened". And you click the option "Anybody asked for your help? Piss off, we can take this meatloaf blindfolded". Now thats how you enter heroic mode.

  6. #266
    Deleted
    not by me, i hated every minute i was in that place & had a break while that, DS & firelands was about, as i hated all 3.
    after vanilla, tbc & wrath, cataclysm was a big let down. thank the lord pandaria is bang on & im back to enjoying raiding again.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    It made the entire thing easy, but for some reason people seem to be -horrible- at learning how to control vehicles. I never had issues with the vehicle thing but it was a painful process to finally get everyone up to par and to get FL+3 towers down.

    It's pretty funny actually, how people suck so hard at learning and understanding 2-3 vehicle abilities. It was like the oculus all over again...
    It wasn't that it was hard, it's just that I like to play my class, not a tank.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    You can't be serious. Yes, the fights were tough, but fun?

    BWD - Omnotron was hectic and fun, that was about it. For some reason I found Atramedes a bit nifty, but I have no idea why.
    BoT - Every single fight sucked except the last phase of council and Cho'gall (Subtlety rogues get to claim double dragons too)
    TotFW - lol
    BoT and BwD were actually really good imo. I loved how lava filled up the room on nefarian phase 2. Every single fight in BwD was actually pretty amazing except maybe Atramedes, fight seemed a little too simple and easy.

  8. #268
    [QUOTE=Orcindauh;22953895

    BoT and BwD were actually really good imo. I loved how lava filled up the room on nefarian phase 2. Every single fight in BwD was actually pretty amazing except maybe Atramedes, fight seemed a little too simple and easy.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, Atramedes got overnerfed pretty quickly as far as I remember, cause the mechanics were quite hard to graps at first. Gotta say, the trash before him was more fun than the actual fight.

    Maloriak was the king anyway

  9. #269
    Grunt itskevinlol's Avatar
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    best raid imo. wtb more fights like those.

    ACTUALLY up the stats on val'anyr so we can use it at current level ;p resto shamans with an absorb /drool haha

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    Gotta disagree with you there mate. While you did pick out the few Ulduar hardmodes that changed drastically, there's plenty of others that only changed slightly(Thorim, XT, Vezax) or didn't change at all due to not having a hardmode.

    On Twin Valk's the colour swaps actually mattered. Anub'Arak with only 6(?) ice patches for the entire fight drastically changed how you approached it.
    Deathwhisper with adds still coming in phase 2. Putricide with the double ooze phase. Lich King had a completely different phase 3 on heroic.
    Yeah, I was thinking of this, I should have addressed it already but I thought I'd wait for the objection. Indeed, if you count ToGC / ICC fights that changed and compare them with T7 / T8 ones that changed as well, you may end up with similar quantities (although the only T9/T10 hard mode that impressed me was probably Twins - pugging it, though; 10 man obviously). So, if you look at the level of challenge, it didn't decrease, but the general feeling was still different. Anyway I shouldn't pursue this line of thought or it will end into 'why the Burning Crusade was better', which this thread is not meant to be about.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    Yeah but ilvl 226 loot from Ignis got disenchanted pretty quickly. Once we got seriously into hardmode progression, Ignis and Razorscale generally got skipped.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Gotta disagree with you there mate. While you did pick out the few Ulduar hardmodes that changed drastically, there's plenty of others that only changed slightly(Thorim, XT, Vezax) or didn't change at all due to not having a hardmode.

    On Twin Valk's the colour swaps actually mattered. Anub'Arak with only 6(?) ice patches for the entire fight drastically changed how you approached it.
    Deathwhisper with adds still coming in phase 2. Putricide with the double ooze phase. Lich King had a completely different phase 3 on heroic.
    You forgot the disease thing you passed on Putricide. Lich king H also had shadow traps and insanely tuned valkyr HP that basically dictated wether you had the dps or "aoe" to kill the fight or not.

    Halion Heroic was on a whole new level on Hardmode. Then we had T11. That tier alone each fight difference going to heroic. Superb!

    Lets be honest here Mimiron and Yogg aka the 2 most memorable hardmode fights from Ulduar were infact basically interface mode. Hit a button. OH SHIT, or pray someone doesn't talk to a keeper. Thats it! Fuck I wish Vezak had a toggle. Do you know how boring it is to AFK that dude while waiting for the Animus?

    Not like it matters. They can bring back to old design once in awhile like they did with protectors so you can make ULTRA HEROIC fights.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by andraxion View Post
    ToGC25 was on an entirely different level. Anub'Arak still ranks up there with one of the most frustrating fights I've done. I was a PC healer and if someone else messed up, it would topple down like a jenga tower. Missed a BoP on someone when hes emerged? Whoops. Miss an ice patch? Whoops. Miss the shadow strike interrupt? Whoops. Now Faction champs was easy because you could stack DKs and AoE everything down. Before door strat, valks were pretty complicated with bad players. 10 man was group it up, AoE it down.
    What this guy said. Anub Arak H was a great fight. However, I still regret he wasn't a raid boss in Azjol. That scrapped raid idea is the biggest upset of all of Wotlk 2nd only to Ulduar being current for only 4 months.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-10-19 at 04:17 PM.

  12. #272
    It's fondly remembered because it was without a doubt and by far the best raid-dungeon in the expansion. Apart from Ulduar I thought the PVE-content in WotLK was very underwhelming, but that place gave me at least one raid which had the epicness of the older TBC-raids. It gave me power to endure the shitfests that was TotC and ICC.

  13. #273
    Good amount of interesting bosses.

    Good story.

    Excellent design, felt like a real place more than the endless linear corridors that many other raids have.

    Yogg Saron. Algalon.

    Non binary hard modes.

    There's just a lot to love there.

  14. #274
    Pre-heroic era.
    They did have hardmode you could switch on but it worked very differently. And we all LOVED IT. Then blizzard fucked us in the ass with making heroics etc

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Draahl View Post
    Pre-heroic era.
    They did have hardmode you could switch on but it worked very differently. And we all LOVED IT. Then blizzard fucked us in the ass with making heroics etc
    How did it fuck us exactly? I sure wish we still had Vezak or XT modes where ppl fucking up activated or deactivated heroic. Or toggles where one tard could destroy the entire lockout by talking to a keeper. Oh yes thank you blizzard for "fucking us over"

    I sometimes question people who were so enthralled with the HM ulduar activation. How many of you actually killed those hardmodes? Rarity of Mimirons Head even though it was faceroll farmable for 1.5 years after Ulduar was obsolete would suggest to me that less then 10 posters in here achieved this feat. Thank god though. Now when I kill "heroic fights" I get superior gear then Joenormal mode who in Ulduar could get the exact same thing while killing normal mode.

    Since then encounter design has become so complex and normal mode so laid back the since then nowadays many boss abilities are pointless or ignored outside the heroic scene.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-10-19 at 05:34 PM.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Draahl View Post
    Pre-heroic era.
    They did have hardmode you could switch on but it worked very differently. And we all LOVED IT. Then blizzard fucked us in the ass with making heroics etc
    I think heroics were the best idea Blizzard has had. "Naxx10 too easy, SWP too hard" making 2 versions of the raid keeps everyone happy.

  17. #277
    Stood in the Fire
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    It had everything you could want in a raid. Just to name a few:

    Challenging bosses with fun mechanics, they gave great gratification.

    Optional bosses, non-linear.

    Very pleasing asthetics, beautiful zone and artwork.

    Large raid, it felt huge. You actually had breathing room. It felt like a giant castle you were infiltrating. Towering walls and pillars, large regal halls with strange and beautiful visuals.

    OOOOBLIVVIIOOONNNN!!!!
    Man, I've got bags under my eyes... BAGS OF MONEY!
    See ya later, peasants.

    Praise The Sun!

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Nearmyth View Post
    It had everything you could want in a raid. Just to name a few:

    Challenging bosses with fun mechanics, they gave great gratification.

    Optional bosses, non-linear.

    Very pleasing asthetics, beautiful zone and artwork.

    Large raid, it felt huge. You actually had breathing room. It felt like a giant castle you were infiltrating. Towering walls and pillars, large regal halls with strange and beautiful visuals.

    OOOOBLIVVIIOOONNNN!!!!
    sounds like every other raid in the history of WoW. Perhaps barring ToC and Dragon soul.

    "Optional bosses" gets thrown around too much too. Nothing in actual raiding is optional. If it's able to be killed. It's going to be killed.

    Also Ulduar was Far from optional. Inevitably the kill order you would do changes as nerfs make fights easier but mostly everyone started with Hodir/Thorim which were faceroll and Ultimately progressed towards Freya+3, Firefight, Agalon, then yogg0 as the end stretch grind. ICC was optional too, As was T11. There are reasons people didn't kill Deathwhisper or things like Ascendant Council. Until late tier. Same thing swings for ToT recently you usually started farming Iron Qon/Consorts before Dark Animus/Durumu.

    Can't really talk about normal mode mixmatch alt/main the first week. That isn't raiding and the only "optional" thing in there is how many runs you decide on running.

    Obviously the vast majority of players are going to have a very different PoV then me. For me it's not a question if something is going to die but when.

    In short, ALL raids have optional bosses because difficulty has never been exactly "linear" They came really close with Siege though!
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-10-19 at 05:59 PM.

  19. #279
    because the other 3 raids are so very bad in comparison,

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Orcindauh View Post
    I think heroics were the best idea Blizzard has had. "Naxx10 too easy, SWP too hard" making 2 versions of the raid keeps everyone happy.
    Not when they give the same loot. LFR, normal, heroic loot all have the same name, same icon, same color, same stat distribution. I will not put effort into heroics as long as retards can get the same rewards in LFR.

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