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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Ailyara's Avatar
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    Question Why not enable Cross-Realm groups for current content normal mode?

    I can kindof understand why you wouldn't want to be able to cross-realm heroic mode, since there are the world first feats of strength and whatnot, but since there really is no big prestige awards for normals, why not enable cross-realm grouping?

    It would have seriously helped my group last night when we unexpectedly lost a healer with an hour to go for our raid time last night if I could have utilized my entire list of friends instead of just those on my server, and I play on a well populated server. It must be very difficult for groups on low-pop realms to be suddenly made short-handed.

    I mean, even if they made a 7/10, 18/25 style same realm requirement, it would certainly be nice to be able to fill holes with people from other realms.

    What are the drawbacks that I'm not thinking about?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Ailyara View Post
    What are the drawbacks that I'm not thinking about?
    The main thing that comes to mind would be they would be losing a large amount of possible profit from people having to transfer servers when wanting to apply to new guilds. Each transfer is 25.00$, and in some cases people transfer multiple toons.

  3. #3
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    The company line is something about wanting you to join guilds; if you could cross-realm everything then why join a guild?

    I imagine it would also have issues with realm first achievements. Rift for example allowed cross-server grouping and one guild decided to send members to other servers to "steal" the realm first kill of a particularly hard raid, since you only needed one person on a realm and the rest was cross-realm. It caused a bit of an uproar and the guild was banned for it I believe.
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  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire Ailyara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    The company line is something about wanting you to join guilds; if you could cross-realm everything then why join a guild?

    I imagine it would also have issues with realm first achievements. Rift for example allowed cross-server grouping and one guild decided to send members to other servers to "steal" the realm first kill of a particularly hard raid, since you only needed one person on a realm and the rest was cross-realm. It caused a bit of an uproar and the guild was banned for it I believe.
    Well like I say, you could solve that bit of problem by not allowing it to be heroics, just normal mode, and/or putting a requirement that it be a qualified guild group, meaning at least 8/10 or 20/25 are from the same guild. The idea would be you could fill in missing spots from a wider pool of players, helps keep guilds raiding.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ailyara View Post
    Well like I say, you could solve that bit of problem by not allowing it to be heroics, just normal mode.
    So we've gone from:
    Your toon is on this server, deal with it.
    You can pay us money to transfer your toon to a different server.
    You can now queue up for heroic dungeons and play in groups with people from various servers.
    You can now queue up for LFR, a new raid difficulty, with people from different servers.
    You can now queue up for Flex, a new raid difficulty below normal, with friends from different servers.

    And now we're suggesting allowing people to do normals? Give people an inch and they want a mile.

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire Ailyara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isiildur View Post
    And now we're suggesting allowing people to do normals? Give people an inch and they want a mile.
    Yes, because there doesn't seem to be a technological hurdle for it, WoW has such a large community of players it's a great resource for raid leaders to be able to tap into. Like I say I don't think it should be laissez-faire but if restricted to that final spot you're trying to fill in a pug for your normal mode raid team, where is the harm? My team had to sit idle for half an hour last night because one of our members had a sudden family emergency. Can't be helped. We didn't want to just scrap the night, so we had to pug from trade chat, yes we finally got someone but it could be next to impossible on some servers.

    So your reasoning for not allowing cross-realm groups is because players are asking for fewer restrictions too much? Seems like you're essentializing the argument based on a dislike for a previous change? I view all your points as positive additions, so yes, we would like more.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    The company line is something about wanting you to join guilds; if you could cross-realm everything then why join a guild?

    I imagine it would also have issues with realm first achievements. Rift for example allowed cross-server grouping and one guild decided to send members to other servers to "steal" the realm first kill of a particularly hard raid, since you only needed one person on a realm and the rest was cross-realm. It caused a bit of an uproar and the guild was banned for it I believe.
    I've always believed this was moot point.

    Why join a guild? How incredibly boring to not be apart of a group, you'll still want to be apart of a guild for every other social aspect of the game. Normal Raiding is not the key component to all guilds. Maybe you have 5 people in one guild and 5 people on another realm in another guild that want to raid with you. You can give trials to people without having them spend $25 and then telling them tough luck they can't make the team for heroic progression.

    There are so many benefits over the general "Why would I ever want to join a guild?"

  8. #8
    I imagine that with Connected Realms rolling out, the end of "Realm First" achievements will remove the last non-technological hurdle left prevent Cross-Realm current content.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    The company line is something about wanting you to join guilds; if you could cross-realm everything then why join a guild?

    I imagine it would also have issues with realm first achievements. Rift for example allowed cross-server grouping and one guild decided to send members to other servers to "steal" the realm first kill of a particularly hard raid, since you only needed one person on a realm and the rest was cross-realm. It caused a bit of an uproar and the guild was banned for it I believe.
    With the implementation of Connected realms, I think the way those things work will be changed anyway.

    And you join a guild to have a consistent group. Even with being able to PUG crossrealm for current content, I'd want to have a solid group that picks up a player or two when needed. Having a larger PUG pool isn't the same as having a guild.

  10. #10
    Because it would very likely kill off a huge number of normal mode raiding guilds. Raiding guilds are an endangered species as it is.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Because it would very likely kill off a huge number of normal mode raiding guilds. Raiding guilds are an endangered species as it is.
    How? It's still going to be the difference between pugging and having a guild to run with.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Because it would very likely kill off a huge number of normal mode raiding guilds. Raiding guilds are an endangered species as it is.
    This^^

    The reason you aren't allowed to raid current content cross-realm is because that restriction protects guilds. If they remove that restriction, even just for normal modes, guilds start falling apart. Remember: There are far more normal mode guilds than there are heroic guilds. The damage would be done.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    This^^

    The reason you aren't allowed to raid current content cross-realm is because that restriction protects guilds. If they remove that restriction, even just for normal modes, guilds start falling apart. Remember: There are far more normal mode guilds than there are heroic guilds. The damage would be done.
    That sounds like a great reason to allow cross-realm normal and heroic content and let those guilds die. If you guild only holds together because of a stranglehold on Normal/Heroic raiding content, maybe the problem is your guild and the players are better off without it.

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire Ailyara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    This^^

    The reason you aren't allowed to raid current content cross-realm is because that restriction protects guilds. If they remove that restriction, even just for normal modes, guilds start falling apart. Remember: There are far more normal mode guilds than there are heroic guilds. The damage would be done.
    If you restrict it to qualified guild groups only, then I would make the argument it only strengthens guilds. It would become easier to start guilds, and to rebuild them. How many guild groups have you seen fall apart because a key raid member left and they could not get a replacement? Something like this opens this up to the community at large and keeps a guild raiding, vs. sitting on the sideline waiting for a random person from trade chat that may never show up.

    The WoW community is so big and energetic as a whole, we're no longer separated by technological challenges. However, some realms are better than others, and even on good realms it can be difficult to continue raiding after you've lost a key member. This would just make it that much easier to continue to do so.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    This^^

    The reason you aren't allowed to raid current content cross-realm is because that restriction protects guilds. If they remove that restriction, even just for normal modes, guilds start falling apart. Remember: There are far more normal mode guilds than there are heroic guilds. The damage would be done.
    I still don't understand... How? How will having more people to PUG with kill organized raiding guilds?

  16. #16
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darmalus View Post
    I imagine that with Connected Realms rolling out, the end of "Realm First" achievements will remove the last non-technological hurdle left prevent Cross-Realm current content.
    just btw, They removed personal realm first achievements with cata and last personal realm first achi was lich king HC. Now all realm first raid boss achievements are guild bound and to be eligible for guild achievements you need to have 8/10 or 20/25 guildies in your raid and to be in the same guild you need to be in on the same server.

    Connected realms first achievements will probably just be realm first for your "realm cluster" because there is no way to track what server you got the achievement on and a simple If X and Y server is linked and a Realm first boss kill is awarded on realm X it can't be awarded on server Y.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Isiildur View Post
    So we've gone from:
    Your toon is on this server, deal with it
    And now we're suggesting allowing people to do normals? Give people an inch and they want a mile.
    I disagree that this is a "give someone an inch problem". There is no technical reason why we can't do normals cross realms and technically with Connected realms we will be doing just that. So the valid question is 'Why is Blizzard saying No to it?" Are they saying No, "just because" ? Why offer all the ability to CRZ and realID everything else and then pick one little corner to say "no, this must remain realm only"

    I do imagine that Blizzard is offering out one last hurray for server firsts, seeing how they added 10 and 25 man server kills separately and I believe they stated there probably won't be anymore "server first" titles going forward, since CRs will muddy that water. For dead and dying servers, being able to realID in would be a real boast for some guilds, mine included. Not everyone wants to drop $25 to transfer, find out they don't fit and then spend another $25 to transfer back or elsewhere. Flex mode is handy for new recruits, but not great.
    Last edited by Mad_Murdock; 2013-10-18 at 07:57 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    I still don't understand... How? How will having more people to PUG with kill organized raiding guilds?
    Why raid with your guild when you can join another group that's more progressed than yours?

    That's why. I mean, this is another example of obvious problems that people are just completely ignoring. You ask how it would kill organized raiding guilds and the answer is pretty much plain to see: As I said, why raid with your 1-10/14 normal mode guild when you could join that cross-realm 14/14 PuG? Bam, now YOUR guild has to pug someone and, being less progressed, they're going to have a harder time recruiting players. Hell, maybe 2-3 of your players join a pug that week and the only people interested in your less progressed group are players that you wouldn't want in your group to begin with. So, you take them anyway... and then, the next week, another 1-2 extra players don't show. Now you've got a group of 5 guildies and 5 pugs and you clear half the content that you normally would. The next week, you cancel all raids because, fuck it, you're losing progression.

    If you don't believe that would happen, then ... I really don't know what to tell you. I could point out people in every raiding guild that I've been in that would gladly jump ship as soon as a better opportunity presented itself and I guarantee that pretty much everyone here could probably point out a few of those people from their guilds as well.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    Why raid with your guild when you can join another group that's more progressed than yours?

    That's why.
    I don't see the problem in that? If someone feels they should be more progressed why force them to pay money just to join another group when they can do it for free?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    Why raid with your guild when you can join another group that's more progressed than yours?

    That's why. I mean, this is another example of obvious problems that people are just completely ignoring. You ask how it would kill organized raiding guilds and the answer is pretty much plain to see: As I said, why raid with your 1-10/14 normal mode guild when you could join that cross-realm 14/14 PuG? Bam, now YOUR guild has to pug someone and, being less progressed, they're going to have a harder time recruiting players. Hell, maybe 2-3 of your players join a pug that week and the only people interested in your less progressed group are players that you wouldn't want in your group to begin with. So, you take them anyway... and then, the next week, another 1-2 extra players don't show. Now you've got a group of 5 guildies and 5 pugs and you clear half the content that you normally would. The next week, you cancel all raids because, fuck it, you're losing progression.

    If you don't believe that would happen, then ... I really don't know what to tell you. I could point out people in every raiding guild that I've been in that would gladly jump ship as soon as a better opportunity presented itself and I guarantee that pretty much everyone here could probably point out a few of those people from their guilds as well.
    With that logic then Realm Pugging should be killing guilds. Why form a guild when you can just PUG. ermahgerd.

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