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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kretan View Post
    The way I look at it, ret paladins are near un-rootable, and can become near immune to break on damage effects through hand of sacrifice. On top of that, they have bubble as a get out of jail free card. If ret paladins were given a hard CC break on something like a fear or stun, they would be completely uncontrollable. Every class needs to be able to be controlled to a degree. It's for that reason why warriors and mages right now are such a pain in the neck; you cannot reliably control them.




    A well played ret paladin uses their ultility so well that their team's survivability goes through the roof. If you want mongo dps on a single target, ret is not for you.
    firstly, hand of sac is only truly useful to pally teamates, not to the pally himself, but, for arguments sake, to fully utilize Hand of sacrifice on yourself, you would have to know when you are about to be CC'ed by something that breaks on dmg and that near impossible.

    Ret pallies have to be un-rootable since we have no instant gap closers like warriors, dks, rogues, and ferals. if we didnt have freedom, mages, hunters...basically anyone with a spammable slow can run circles around us.

    And bubble doesnt do anything but prolong the inevitable, we dont have the mana to heal from 10% to full while bubble is active.

    Im not asking for mongo dps, selfless healer flash of lights are not a game winner, you cannot keep an entire team alive with just that because most ppl know if there is a ret pally on the opposing team to CC him as well. which brings me to my main point, we are too susceptible to CC because we dont have away out except for trinkets.
    Last edited by Ellmist; 2013-10-18 at 07:12 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    Its very frustrating that, as a Ret Paladin, we are the only melee class that doesnt have some type of instant CC break.
    Rogues don't have a cc breaker at all, feral's don't unless they have a pally with them, The only melee that has no extra cc break at all ever is rogues. Hopefully 6.0 removes a lot of cc and cc breakers but I won't be holding my breath for that.

  3. #23
    I am Murloc! Rixis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    firstly, hand of sac is only truly useful to pally teamates, not to the pally himself, but, for arguments sake, to fully utilize Hand of sacrifice on yourself, you would have to know when you are about to be CC'ed by something that breaks on dmg and that near impossible.
    Hand of sac causes you to take damage, use that, your team mates take damage, that damage then breaks the fear/sheep on you.

    Stop moving the goalposts because you don't know how things work/what to do. Bubble doesn't count as it's a defensive cooldown ... yeah, doesn't count because it does exactly what you said ret paladins cannae do.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Sin Cara View Post
    What this seemingly comes down to is a learn to play issue. You're VERY low rated to top it all off.
    I always love these comments. There are hardly any rets at the top of the 3v3 ladders at the moment.


    OP: Just reroll a DK or warrior. Don't waste your time with ret unless you can play with a hunter and priest in 3v3 and have good awareness. You don't have to worry about team mates as much with the other mongoloid classes plus you have more anti caster abilities.
    Last edited by Garian; 2013-10-18 at 07:32 PM.
    "These people, Adam, they're like ghosts. Always in the shadows. Always hiding behind lies and proxy soldiers. I need you to find them. They cannot stop us. They cannot stop the future".

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    firstly, hand of sac is only truly useful to pally teamates, not to the pally himself, but, for arguments sake, to fully utilize Hand of sacrifice on yourself, you would have to know when you are about to be CC'ed by something that breaks on dmg and that near impossible.

    Ret pallies have to be un-rootable since we have no instant gap closers like warriors, dks, rogues, and ferals. if we didnt have freedom, mages, hunters...basically anyone with a spammable slow can run circles around us.

    And bubble doesnt do anything but prolong the inevitable, we dont have the mana to heal from 10% to full while bubble is active.

    Im not asking for mongo dps, selfless healer flash of lights are not a game winner, you cannot keep an entire team alive with just that because most ppl know if there is a ret pally on the opposing team to CC him as well. which brings me to my main point, we are too susceptible to CC because we dont have away out except for trinkets.
    If your goal is to stop all CC all the time for 100% uptime, you will be disappointed. There are many ways to predict when you are about to be CCed. For a mage, there is a cast bar. Set the mage to focus and watch their casts. For a hunter, their scatter shot is range dependent. If you see them charging you, you know what is about to happen (albeit admittedly more difficult to pull off than ranged). For a rogues blind, it is extremely range dependent.

    However, it seems as though you need to understand that hand of sac provides temporary immunity to CC. It isn't about not ever getting CCed; it is about preventing it when it is most important. Is your healer about to get blown up? Hand of Sacrifice to reduce damage as well as make you un-CCable and able to peel. Did you pop your CDs? hand of Sacrifice to cover your burst.

    You sound like all you want is unpeelable dps with no thought process involved except chainging your array of CC immunity with near unpeelable DPS.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Rixis View Post
    Hand of sac causes you to take damage, use that, your team mates take damage, that damage then breaks the fear/sheep on you.

    Stop moving the goalposts because you don't know how things work/what to do. Bubble doesn't count as it's a defensive cooldown ... yeah, doesn't count because it does exactly what you said ret paladins cannae do.
    I understand that...i didnt not say it doesnt work i just said thats not really useful because that means you have to predict when and what CC is about to hit you. will that work against fears? not really. Cyclone? no. Hex? no. ive been playing ret pally for 5 yrs. i know what im talking about. you seem to be misunderstanding my point so ill say it again, as far a melee classes go, ret pallies are too susceptible to CC because, unlike other melee we dont have a hard CC break

    warriors = berserker rage
    Dk = icebound fortitude, AMS
    Shammy = tremor totem
    Rogue = Cloak of shadows
    Monk = trancendence
    feral = symbiosis

    notice how defensive CDs are not on this list? Bubble is not a CC break...its a defensive CD
    Last edited by Ellmist; 2013-10-18 at 07:46 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    I always love these comments. There are hardly any rets at the top of the 3v3 ladders at the moment.


    OP: Just reroll a DK or warrior. Don't waste your time with ret unless you can play with a hunter and priest in 3v3 and have good awareness. You don't have to worry about team mates as much with the other mongoloid classes plus you have more anti caster abilities.
    If you actually took the time to read, he plays 2s.

  8. #28
    I am Murloc! Rixis's Avatar
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    Icebound fortitude is a defensive CD, as is anti magic shell, as is cloak of shadows. Breaking/preventing CCs is part of defence. Does bubble break CC? Yes.

    Also, you say symbiosis, the example I saw someone give was ice block, how is iceblock any different at all from bubble except that you cannot move/attack while in it? Does that not then class as defence?

    List all the abilities and whether you classify them as cc breaking or defence, how is one that breaks cc not counted as a cc breaker but as a defence? I'll tell you how, because it suits your whine.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Sin Cara View Post
    If you actually took the time to read, he plays 2s.
    i also do RBGs and 1700 is NOT very low. Do you play a ret pally? whats your MMR? how many ret do you know are at the top of 3s? 2s is unbalanced.

  10. #30
    Stood in the Fire Kals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chutamango View Post
    So just because you don't WANT to consider your bubble an extra trinket...it does not eliminate it as an actual EXTRA trinket.
    Best part is treating Feral Sym-bubble (because the chance we play with a Paladin partner is so high now a days, right?) as a method to break CC but his is a defensive CD.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    I understand that...i didnt not say it doesnt work i just said thats not really useful because that means you have to predict when and what CC is about to hit you. will that work against fears? not really. Cyclone? no. Hex? no. ive been playing ret pally for 5 yrs. i know what im talking about. you seem to be misunderstanding my point so ill say it again, as far a melee classes go, ret pallies are too susceptible to CC because, unlike other melee we dont have a hard CC break

    warriors = berserker rage
    Dk = icebound fortitude, AMS
    Shammy = tremor totem
    Rogue = Cloak of shadows
    Monk = trancendence
    feral = symbiosis

    notice how defensive CDs are not on this list? Bubble is not a CC break...its a defensive CD
    So, cloak of shadows and AMS is not defensive CD and break CC yet bubble is not a CC break. What game is that?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Rixis View Post
    Icebound fortitude is a defensive CD, as is anti magic shell, as is cloak of shadows. Breaking/preventing CCs is part of defence. Does bubble break CC? Yes.

    Also, you say symbiosis, the example I saw someone give was ice block, how is iceblock any different at all from bubble except that you cannot move/attack while in it? Does that not then class as defence?

    List all the abilities and whether you classify them as cc breaking or defence, how is one that breaks cc not counted as a cc breaker but as a defence? I'll tell you how, because it suits your whine.
    all of the abilities i mentions other than perhaps CoS and symbiosis are hard CC breaks because they instantly break CC and either make you immune for X seconds or just plainly puts you out of range to be CC'ed again, the problem lies in that if a pally uses bubble as a trinket then we have no defensives. warrior uses berserker rage....he still has def stance, shield wall, not to mention a fear of his own. a dk uses Icebould fortitude....still has AMS, blood presence, you should get my point. why would you use your 1 defensive as a trinket?

    instead of just tryin to troll why dont you try to think of something that actually means something instead of calling someone a whiner.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post


    Dk = icebound fortitude, AMS
    Rogue = Cloak of shadows
    feral = symbiosis = bubble lol?

    notice how defensive CDs are not on this list? Bubble is not a CC break...its a defensive CD
    What?

    Cloak of shadows Why don't you read that tooltip for us.

    Monk = trancendence
    wtf?

    Some really bad people posting really bad info

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimenta View Post
    So, cloak of shadows and AMS is not defensive CD and break CC yet bubble is not a CC break. What game is that?
    it is because it instantlyremoves all harmful magic effects and make rogues immune for 5 secs

  15. #35
    We need to move away from hard cc breaks in this game, not give out more. Classes are different.

    In my books, a trinket is a defensive cooldown. Bubble more closely resembles trinket than does a lot of the abilities you listed because it allows you to get away (or peel/heal your teammate) while you are being locked down, the same as a trinket would.

    I agree that rets are somewhat easy to control with fear/poly/hex/stuns, but they need to be because they are basically immune to slows and roots.

    If you had another way to break cc it would be absolutely impossible to peel a ret, and since you have possibly the strongest burst in the game, it would be way overpowered. Remember 5.1 avatar? That would be rets.

  16. #36
    I am Murloc! Rixis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    instead of just tryin to troll why dont you try to think of something that actually means something instead of calling someone a whiner.
    Why don't you try to come up with a cohesive argument not full of holes?

  17. #37
    Mechagnome Zippoflames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    Its very frustrating that, as a Ret Paladin, we are the only melee class that doesnt have some type of instant CC break.

    Warriors and Dks have their fear breakers, rogues and feral druids have their speed and stealth (not to mention many CC abilities to get away), and monks have their teleport ability.
    So you are not the only melee with doesn't have cc breaker? stealth and speed are not fear breakers? not sap breakers? not sheep breakers?

  18. #38
    I am Murloc! Rixis's Avatar
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    You said they're not defensive, now you say that they don't count because those classes have other abilities available? You can use HoP, what about lay on hands or divine protection? You have a number of available defensive abilities.

  19. #39
    CoS isnt usable while CC'd. It removes dots and such, but cant be used while feared, sheeped etc.

    Ams cant be used while CC'd, and prevents application of new magic effects but does not remove the ones already on you.

    Transcendance doesnt remove anything (i dont think?) its just a shitty lock portal.

    Classes are different, and should get more different, not get more the same.

    To answer your question in the thread title, no.
    Last edited by junn; 2013-10-18 at 08:27 PM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    Considering bubble as a trinket would be like taking a warriors berserker rage and Shield Wall and telling them,"you dont need these because you have def stance."
    Ret pallies dont have the luxury of a perma dmg redux like warriors and dks or a ton of escape techniques like rogues, ferals and monks
    Can i get bop and castable heals too please?

    One of the most annoying classes to catch up to is a skilled retripala.

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