Page 1 of 4
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Thoughts on 10man Loot Chances

    My 10man group has had some tough luck as far as drops go for raiding this expansion and I have been wondering if there's a solution. Over the course of ToT we killed Horridon 16 times and saw the spirit trinket (Horridons Last Gasp) once. We killed Lie Shen 6 times and never saw UVLS. We killed council 14 times and saw Wushoolays Final Choice once. Each boss has ~20 items and drops 2 per kill so statistically we should see specific drops 1/10 times on average so what happened to us actually isn't far from expected.

    Now in 25man the bosses have the same loot table but drop 6 items per kill. So the chances of seeing what you need are closer to 30% rather than 20% in 10man. I'm fine with 25man getting more loot/person, I agree that to help preserve 25man raiding they should see far more thunderforged/warforged loot but it's tough in 10man raids to to finally get a drop like the healing trinket of Horridon where all 3 healers want it and we know we likely will never see it again. In our group specifically we had 2 warlocks and 1 mage that all would have liked UVLS but none got it.

    Would it be detrimental to the game for bosses to perhaps "drop" 4 peices of loot but you can only pick up 2 of them? Or even 3? In a new tier for 25man every piece of loot is valuable, but in 10man it's much more common to see group w/ no Holy Pally, or no one that can utilize spell power leather. Would a change like this be reasonable or would it be too detrimental to 25man raids?

  2. #2

  3. #3
    I like it, maybe make it pick 2 out of 3, mostly so int plate can be discarded on no pally raids OR make it so unusable items can't drop (on 10 man) as in no int-plate if no paladin (with holy as main or off-spec) present, no spi cloth if no priest, etc.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    I like it, maybe make it pick 2 out of 3, mostly so int plate can be discarded on no pally raids OR make it so unusable items can't drop (on 10 man) as in no int-plate if no paladin (with holy as main or off-spec) present, no spi cloth if no priest, etc.
    That kills entire point of RNG, and it will lead to heavier class / armor types stacking.

  5. #5
    this was the problem with making 10-25man have the same loot tables. the Loot tables are HUGE. so you're most likely not gonna get the gear you need after the 2-4th kill

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    That kills entire point of RNG, and it will lead to heavier class / armor types stacking.
    I agree that not allowing loot to drop if you don't have that specific class in your raid would lead to class stacking and isn't a valid option, but dropping 3 or 4 pieces in 10man and allowing you to choose 2 doesn't outright kill RNG. It's a compromise.... it would still be possible to drop nothing useful, just makes it less likely.

  7. #7
    Hey look at that, you killed the final boss of a patch despite stuff not dropping. Doesn't that tell you something?

    I've killed Garrosh in normal on my main with an ilevel of 549, comically my mage that hasn't set foot in SoO normal has the same ilevel from flex and a celestial drop. Sure it would be nice if my main were draped in bling but meh, it gives me something to aspire to. These days it seems all people aspire to is changing the loot system so they can get all their shinies in as few sittings as possible.

  8. #8
    Fortunately, bonus rolls makes this much less of an issue. Yes, sometimes you get an item you don't want. Yeah, sometimes you get it 5 times in a row. But, plenty often, you get the item you're looking for without having to have it drop from the boss.

  9. #9
    Players gear up hilariously fast now compared to what it used to be, even in 10-man.

    At level 60 in Naxxramas you got 2 item drops for 40 players from a boss, and no way real way to supplement those drops outside raids.

  10. #10
    weve been saying in our raid that 10 man should drop the same number as 25 but you should only get to pick 2 and the rest vanish, it would go a long way to working with there bring the player not the class slogan they pushed for a while. My raid team has no use for int plate or agi leather and only two people on the vanq token. Ill handle the arguments that could arise from what pieces to take and what not too if i dont have to disenchant so many other pieces

  11. #11
    It would help having a choice of like three and choose 2 for 10s, and something similar to 25s as well don't want to put 10s above 25s. For getting several pieces of int plate while having no holy pallies is not nice. As well all vanquisher people in group getting most of the tier drops this expac.

  12. #12
    Being from a top-end 10m raiding guild, I can honestly say loot is fine.

    The ONLY thing they could improve on is the loot off of tier bosses. One piece of tier and one piece of rng loot seems just too low. Typically bosses have anywhere from 9-15 pieces of loot, and to say one of the two pieces that drop each week is hogged up by a tier piece just sucks. I believe that tier bosses should the normal 2 pieces of gear with the additional tier piece.

  13. #13
    Brewmaster durrtygoodz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    The big UK
    Posts
    1,263
    This whole expansion I've raided 10m and the RNG on loot has sucked so badly.

    In t14 our guild was cursed with agility gear from every single boss yet never having a hunter or rogue to use it. Right now I'm playing balance and I was 12ilvls behind most of my team until I coined a HC WF weapon this reset, now I'm only 10 behind our rogue/hunter/spriest. Yay.

    The amount of useless shit is just a joke really. We're yet to see KTT and I can't wait for the fight that's gunna break out for it And I'm pretty sure I'm doomed to a 530 gloves/belt for the whole tier.

  14. #14
    Its pretty shit in 10 man atm - when a cloak drops. From a loot point of view thats 50% of loot wasted (this is speaking from a point of view where everyone in the raid has the legendary cloak).

    It would be nice to see at least some improvement to the 10 man loot system/loot system in general, loot is already imbalanced in 10 vs 25 man - tier bosses drop 3 pieces of tier in 25 man, when they should only drop 2.5 pieces.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Lockula View Post
    It would help having a choice of like three and choose 2 for 10s, and something similar to 25s as well don't want to put 10s above 25s. For getting several pieces of int plate while having no holy pallies is not nice. As well all vanquisher people in group getting most of the tier drops this expac.
    This right here ^^^^^.

    We have 3 Vanq users, 3 Conq users, 4 Prot. All 3 Vanq have 4 piece, and 1 of them has 4 pc Offspec, and that same person has 3 pc Off/Offspec. Conq users literally have 1 person just got 1st 4pc, and Prot has no 4pc, with 2 at 2pc. It is ridiculous.

    Sig made by Shyama. Click sig for current Warlock armory.

  16. #16
    Brewmaster durrtygoodz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    The big UK
    Posts
    1,263
    Quote Originally Posted by EruptorNZ View Post
    It would be nice to see at least some improvement to the 10 man loot system/loot system in general, loot is already imbalanced in 10 vs 25 man - tier bosses drop 3 pieces of tier in 25 man, when they should only drop 2.5 pieces.
    Tier bosses on 10m used to drop 2 peices of loot AND tier rather than 1 tier 1 loot, and I thought that was about right. No idea why they nerfed it.

  17. #17
    I see some people suggesting picking 2 out of 3-4 drops to hand out, I think that is a pretty terrible system to be honest. Say 2 weapons a trinket and a chest piece drops, all of which are legitimate upgrades for the group. How do you decide who gets screwed out of gear and who doesn't? Terrible system

    A better way to approach it is to give the ability to re-roll a single drop off of a boss, say only 3 total rerolls per lockout, limit 1 roll per boss. This allows completely useless items to be discarded to hopefully give a better items, but could also be another useless piece, but not the same item.

    But even that system is kind of pushing it. Useless drops have been around since day 1, and I like the system as it is.

  18. #18
    Brewmaster durrtygoodz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    The big UK
    Posts
    1,263
    Quote Originally Posted by Kraineth View Post
    I see some people suggesting picking 2 out of 3-4 drops to hand out, I think that is a pretty terrible system to be honest. Say 2 weapons a trinket and a chest piece drops, all of which are legitimate upgrades for the group. How do you decide who gets screwed out of gear and who doesn't? Terrible system
    The same system you currently use in raids obviously? Loot council, EPGP, SuicideKings, /roll.. whatever..

  19. #19
    We only saw Spirit trinket off Horridon twice on 25 man in 22 kills. Thats a 1.5% droprate. RNG is RNG.

  20. #20
    7 Immerseus, 7 sha of pride, 7 thok kills (includes a double-normal clear first reset, obv).
    1 Amp trinket, from normal primordius in the first reset.
    25 man is just as prone to RNG as 10 man is. We have had tons of the 2h weapon drop from sha of pride so far, one week we had 3 swords and 3 chests drop, another we had 2 swords, etc - needless to say, quite a few have been wasted, what with DK's using 1H weapons and such.
    The only difference here is that 10 man raiders seem to think one piece of gear is as much of an upgrade for 25 man as it is in 10, and thus values it the same, while in reality, logic says its not.
    Sure, you might be waiting around for one, maybe two if you're melee heavy, AMP trinkets from thok in a 10 man. In 25 man, we need 6 of them. One dropping is nice, but it's far from the goal.
    Basicly, getting ONE item in a 10 man has as big an effect on the raid as getting 2-3 items in 25 man. There's also significant chances for multiple tank loots dropping off of one boss (I still remember Feng dropping 3x tank bracers on our first kill, with us using a Druid and Warrior tank. That was... Annoying) - something that 10 man never has to deal with untill subsequent rekills (and even then, it'd be foolish to assume that 25 man does not have the same chance at getting loot like that which can't be used).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •