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  1. #21
    Flex killed 10 man for me so, idc

  2. #22
    6 weeks on immersuis, flex/ normal, whatever. no trinket for my warlock. coined each time so 12 chances so far. nothing. id be in favor of 4 loots dropping and only 2 lootable. most loot gets de'd by our guild anyway so it'd really help to have a decent selection.

  3. #23
    25mans can have terrible rng too I remember going ages without a proper shield in firelands. I find that coins fix most rng problems but there is usually 1 piece of loot that refuses to drop. Just stick to it 6 lei shen kills is not enough to complain about loot not dropping, it will drop eventually and keep using coins.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    That kills entire point of RNG, and it will lead to heavier class / armor types stacking.
    I fail to see how you would like to get a lesser skilled/geared, say MW instead of your usual holy pally just so int plate doesn't drop.

    Apart from world first guilds who in his sane mind will bench a skilled player for a lesser skilled/geared one just to make int plate/spi cloth not drop?

    And if the reason you are benching him is poor performance then loot is just an absurd excuse.

  5. #25
    Yes, for our raid group, it seems to drop a disproportionate amount of Protector tokens, Agi trinkets seem hard to come by and belts, spirit plate (we have no holy paladin), and no Agility mace/axe/sword/2h (daggers are fine).

    Not to mention that they drop a ton of cloaks (which are totally useless with Legendaries).
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  6. #26
    As a guy who main raids 25man and does 10man alt raids, 10man is terrible loot wise. If you play a class or your spec is heavily dependent on tier items or trinkets and they never drop its going to be terrible. Like that Assurance of Consequence trinket from Sha of Pride was 50k dps upgrade(250k to 300k) for my alt rogue for combat spec when I simmed few weeks ago, but it just never drops in 10man.

    I think 25man has so huge advantage lootwise. 20% more loot per player, 150% better chance to get warforged, 3 times better chance for boss to drop a specific item. In my opinion one of the best ways to balance this would be that tier bosses would drop 2 non tier items plus tier item.

  7. #27
    After raiding 10man for years I think the biggest change they could go back to is to make tier boss drop the token as a 3rd item like they used to. Lost count on the number of time I've seen 0 loot go out because a prot token dropped again and the holy pally already has the plate spirit item that dropped. While I'm fine with RNG being RNG it can get annoying to go on streaks of 0 loot for anyone (not just yourself).

  8. #28
    Loot is fine, it's just an illusion that 25 man drops are less rng. They get a bit more loot and they don't have the problem of DE'ing items on week 1, but in the end they have 2.5 times as many players to gear up.

    I guess it's the same reason people complain so much about flex/lfr/coin loot. Statistically it comes out the same, but there's a psychological effect that somehow makes people feel better when they see an item they want drop even if they don't end up getting it.

  9. #29
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
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    Everyone should just enjoy what the have. 10 man drops the same amount of loot we had to deal with for the entire Vanilla with 40 people, TBC for 25 people, and part of Wotlk. Raid drops have never been more generous then they are now. Stop being greedy.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    Loot is fine, it's just an illusion that 25 man drops are less rng. They get a bit more loot and they don't have the problem of DE'ing items on week 1, but in the end they have 2.5 times as many players to gear up.

    I guess it's the same reason people complain so much about flex/lfr/coin loot. Statistically it comes out the same, but there's a psychological effect that somehow makes people feel better when they see an item they want drop even if they don't end up getting it.
    you dont need to know more than basics about probability to understand how wrong your conclussions are. 25mans have an advantage in every single drop-related mechanic over 10mans. Some are intentionally set that way (WF loot, # of drops), some are just the byproduct of raid sizes and makeups compared to possible drops.

    Your 25man has bad luck with not seeing certain trinket? well boo fucking hoo, there are plenty of 10man guilds for every single 25man guild with the same issue. Come back, when you DE from HC firstkill all 6 items.

  11. #31
    The problem is, when you do get loot dropping be it Heroic/Normal, Flex LFR and bonus rolls, every week it seems to be the same dropping over and over. I'll use bonus rolls on particular bosses for weeks/months on end and if it's not gold and something does drop, it's the same item that dropped for the past 3 bonus rolls of a particular boss.

    I have been through whole tiers without a shield dropping once, yet have seen the same items drop over and over well into double figures in a single tier.
    Last edited by FissionZero; 2013-10-20 at 03:49 PM.

  12. #32
    10 man looting sucks, and it sucks even more when you ONLY get the stuff that your raid comp doesnt use ALL the time.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Everyone should just enjoy what the have. 10 man drops the same amount of loot we had to deal with for the entire Vanilla with 40 people, TBC for 25 people, and part of Wotlk. Raid drops have never been more generous then they are now. Stop being greedy.
    Not sure whats your point? 10mans are dropping the same ammout of items they were dropping back in tBC with an odd tier here or there with 3 items from tier bosses, unlike 25/40mans, who went from 2-3 drops in vanilla to 6 now with some tiers having obscene 9 from tier bosses (t11 says hi)

    The main difference now is the gear is more specialized and you cant wear cross armorclass items anymore, unlike vanilla>LK, where the leather drop would be wasted if you didnt have rogue now, your hunter or enha could take it just aswell back then. So in a sense, even with lolrngcoin, people dont really have more generous loot system nowadays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FissionZero View Post
    The problem is, when you do get loot dropping be it Heroic/Normal, Flex LFR and bonus rolls, every week it seems to be the same dropping over and over. I'll use bonus rolls on particular bosses for weeks/months on end and if it's not gold and something does drop, it's the same item that dropped for the past 3 bonus rolls of a particular boss.

    I have been through whole tiers without a shield dropping once, yet have seen the same items drop over and over well into double figures in a single tier.
    Funny you should mention shields.

    I was waiting for an int shield drop from current raid tier since HM Ulduar 10man from XT till Tortos, I havent gotten a single progression shield drop between those two in 10man

  14. #34
    High Overlord Puuhis's Avatar
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    I think that having a 50% chance to drop a third item would fix a lot of the problems 10 mans currently have.

  15. #35
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puuhis View Post
    I think that having a 50% chance to drop a third item would fix a lot of the problems 10 mans currently have.
    50% for an additonal item? Okay so long as 25s get 50% for additonal 2 items.

  16. #36
    High Overlord Puuhis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    50% for an additonal item? Okay so long as 25s get 50% for additonal 2 items.
    25 mans already get more loot than 10 mans. 10 people get two items compared to 25 getting 6 items. 25's also get better loot through wf'd gear and generally no loot goes to waste because there's most of the times all spexs accidentally covered. 50% was pulled out of my ass but the idea is the same.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    7 Immerseus, 7 sha of pride, 7 thok kills (includes a double-normal clear first reset, obv).
    1 Amp trinket, from normal primordius in the first reset.
    25 man is just as prone to RNG as 10 man is. We have had tons of the 2h weapon drop from sha of pride so far, one week we had 3 swords and 3 chests drop, another we had 2 swords, etc - needless to say, quite a few have been wasted, what with DK's using 1H weapons and such.
    The only difference here is that 10 man raiders seem to think one piece of gear is as much of an upgrade for 25 man as it is in 10, and thus values it the same, while in reality, logic says its not.
    Sure, you might be waiting around for one, maybe two if you're melee heavy, AMP trinkets from thok in a 10 man. In 25 man, we need 6 of them. One dropping is nice, but it's far from the goal.
    Basicly, getting ONE item in a 10 man has as big an effect on the raid as getting 2-3 items in 25 man. There's also significant chances for multiple tank loots dropping off of one boss (I still remember Feng dropping 3x tank bracers on our first kill, with us using a Druid and Warrior tank. That was... Annoying) - something that 10 man never has to deal with untill subsequent rekills (and even then, it'd be foolish to assume that 25 man does not have the same chance at getting loot like that which can't be used).
    lol no, just no. You are just full of bias. You know just aswell that 10man loot is screwed vs 25man loot. When do you actually get 3 pieces of the same loot per boss? Its completely irrelevant. 10man's are DEing 60-70% of the loot from week 1 on, that's alot compared to the already overcompensated 25man loot.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    50% for an additonal item? Okay so long as 25s get 50% for additonal 2 items.
    25s dont need more loot imo, but like other guy said in this thread? or other thread, tier token shouldnt be counted boss drop in 10s, so boss with tier will drop tier + 2 items instead of tier + item.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    50% for an additonal item? Okay so long as 25s get 50% for additonal 2 items.
    The point is to fix a problem that 25 mans don't have, not to turn up the pressure on the 25 man loot shower.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Miscam View Post
    lol no, just no. You are just full of bias. You know just aswell that 10man loot is screwed vs 25man loot. When do you actually get 3 pieces of the same loot per boss? Its completely irrelevant. 10man's are DEing 60-70% of the loot from week 1 on, that's alot compared to the already overcompensated 25man loot.
    You're just as biased as I am, but in the other direction.
    If you are DE'ing 60-70% of your loot from week 1, that means you've build some craptastic ass-backwards setup that consist of like, 2 holy paladins and a resto shaman, no casters and lots of plate dps and tanks or something equally akward. If that's the case, the fault is on you for not making a viable setup that can actually use the gear that drops, not on the RNG of the drops. Alot of people seem to not fully "get" that.
    And I already told you of one scenario where we got 3 pieces of the same loot. Another from this tier would be 3x weapons from sha of pride (which drops both the BIS healer trinket and agility trinket).

    You stating that it's "irrellevant" that 25 man can also get RNG'fucked means that it's irrellevant that 10 man can get RNG'fucked, too.

    As for the whole "25 man gets 6, 10 man gets 2!" thing you guys are constantly whining about - have you considered that 25 man rosters are usually significantly bigger than 10 man? A healthy 25 man roster has 35-38 players, while a healthy 10 man has 12-13. 2.5*13=32.5, not 35. The "extra loot" is shared out on the extra players that 25 man's keep in the rosters.
    Last edited by Dracodraco; 2013-10-20 at 05:17 PM.

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