How to improve PvP while also addressing the WPvP situation:

[Clash the DK]

There is some opportunity to improve the PvP scene within WoW.

I do not feel that they accomplished their goal of having the different areas of the game (PvP/PvE) more readily accessible by all players. Furthermore, the difference in ilvls they have created for PvP and PvE gear really takes away from the spirit of the game. Here is my solution:

1. The ilvl of PvP and PvE gear should be made the same. This solves the world PvP problem.
2. PvP Power removed from the game.
3. PvP gear should downscale slightly when in PvE instanced dungeons, raids, etc.
4. PvE gear should downscale slightly when in PvP instanced BGs and Arena.
5. You would effectively have 2 ilvls shown on your character now. One ilvl for PvP content and one for PvE content.
6. New PvP point currency and gear implemented that resides in value between Honor and Conquest. We'll call them Glory points/gear for reference.
7. New BG bracket implemented requiring full Honor gear to participate.

This new bracket would be just like regular random BGs, except you would need a certain ilvl (full Honor gear) to que. This new BG bracket would reward mostly Glory points and some Conquest points. Regular random BGs would now reward mostly Honor points and then some of the new Glory points. And then Rated BGs would reward Glory/Conquest. We would now have an official Semi-Pro bracket for PvP. This helps to separate those who just want to dabble in PvP from those who want to compete without the hassle of a pre-formed group. It doesn't solve every single problem, but it would be an improvement.

This all does a few things. First, PvP gear acquisition better mimics PvE gear throughout any specific tier/season. This would allow the ilvl situation to also remain fair across the two different playstyles in any world PvP scenario. Reminder: Gear would downscale in content it's not intended. For example: Honor Gear would be the same ilvl as Flex gear in the open world. But, if you were to enter a raid in the same gear, then maybe your ilvl would decrease to that of LFR Gear. This will help with people wanting to get involved with different aspects of the game at any time during a single tier/season, but without making participation in any unwanted content mandatory.

LFR = Crafted PvP Gear
Flex = Honor Gear
Normal = Glory Gear
Heroic = Conquest Gear

Now, the only question left is how to apply this system to Arena in a fair manner. One idea I have that would shake the foundation of the game is to do the following:

2's = Honor Points
3's = Glory Points
5's = Conquest Points

This would admittedly be a huge change. But, this also might be a good change. All arena brackets would actually have a purpose. Communication and teamwork define success within Arena. In this scenario, you would be rewarded appropriately.

So lets hear the feedback.

[Eazy]

I'm pretty sure more people are doing 3v3 than 5v5. And 3v3 always seemed more seriously, at least for me.

You cannot add these changes for 2v2/3v3/5v5, because you are not fighting with worse enemies(compared to normal/heroic raids).
In 2v2/3v3/5v5 you fighting with players, so it's the same level.
Heroic Dungeons/Normal Raids/Heroic Raids don't have same opponent(mechanics/numbers).

Were you ever playing arena?

[Clash the DK]

I'm pretty sure more people are doing 3v3 than 5v5. And 3v3 always seemed more seriously, at least for me.

You cannot add these changes for 2v2/3v3/5v5, because you are not fighting with worse enemies(compared to normal/heroic raids).
In 2v2/3v3/5v5 you fighting with players, so it's the same level.
Heroic Dungeons/Normal Raids/Heroic Raids don't have same opponent(mechanics/numbers).

Were you ever playing arena?

The 3v3 arena bracket is the most popular because it's currently the easiest bracket with full rewards. But due to the fact that you're dealing with so few players, it's incredibly easy to take advantage of general class imbalances. Certain classes/specs are constantly being left uncompetitive. That's a big problem for PvP end game. My opinion is that 5v5 is more challenging and would allow more specs on the game field. And as I said before, 5v5 requires more communication and teamwork. Therefore, in my mind, it would be worthy of higher rewards within the proposed system.

[Eazy]

The 3v3 arena bracket is the most popular because it's currently the easiest bracket with full rewards. But due to the fact that you're dealing with so few players, it's incredibly easy to take advantage of general class imbalances. Certain classes/specs are constantly being left uncompetitive. That's a big problem for PvP end game. My opinion is that 5v5 is more challenging and would allow more specs on the game field. And as I said before, 5v5 requires more communication and teamwork. Therefore, in my mind, it would be worthy of higher rewards within the proposed system.

I'll just leave this video here.

Any Mod could transfer this thread to PvP?

[Tart]

The Benny Hill music lmao

[Clash the DK]

I'll just leave this video here.

Any Mod could transfer this thread to PvP?

Could you elaborate on why you posted that particular video? Any team with proper "communication and teamwork" would roll those guys. I do appreciate the bump though.

[Deleted]

Haha, back in Cata when I played some 5s on my lock we ran into a boxer playing 5 warriors... he basically ran in, popped everything and whirlwinded everyone to death ;D

And ye, we bumped into the same guy several times in a row and quickly learned how to farm him, I talked to him later and he admitted it happens a lot, but not often enough for it to not be (slightly) profitable to roll a comp like that.

[Deleted]

Points 1 to 4 are nothing new and have already been discussed.
Point 5 seems like a nice way to make downscaling easier to understand.
Points 6 and 7 don't seem all that good to me. They add complexity to the current system and don't give much in return...

[Clash the DK]

Points 1 to 4 are nothing new and have already been discussed.
Point 5 seems like a nice way to make downscaling easier to understand.
Points 6 and 7 don't seem all that good to me. They add complexity to the current system and don't give much in return...

Well, those changes would bring a more progression oriented style to PvP that would better mimic the raiding scene. I think that is interesting in and of itself. But, many players wanted a better random BG bracket when rated BGs were introduced. Lots of people were disappointed with what we got. This system brings that to the table and I don't think it should be underestimated. A random BG bracket with less bots and more competent players would be ideal for many.

[Hitei]

Well, those changes would bring a more progression oriented style to PvP that would better mimic the raiding scene. I think that is interesting in and of itself. But, many players wanted a better random BG bracket when rated BGs were introduced. Lots of people were disappointed with what we got. This system brings that to the table and I don't think it should be underestimated. A random BG bracket with less bots and more competent players would be ideal for many.

Enjoy your 45 minute queue times.

[Clash the DK]

Enjoy your 45 minute queue times.

Maybe, just maybe, more players might be inclined to get back into PvP if positive changes are made.

[Rucati]

Any change that forces serious PvPers into 5v5 is going to be a god awful change. 5v5 is abandoned for a reason, it isn't fun to play a game that's literally just a clusterfuck. That alone basically makes the change awful and a waste of time.

Luckily, it'll never happen, because Blizzard knows PvP will die if you force people into 5v5 and RBGs as the only ways to get the best gear.

[Clash the DK]

Any change that forces serious PvPers into 5v5 is going to be a god awful change. 5v5 is abandoned for a reason, it isn't fun to play a game that's literally just a clusterfuck. That alone basically makes the change awful and a waste of time.

Luckily, it'll never happen, because Blizzard knows PvP will die if you force people into 5v5 and RBGs as the only ways to get the best gear.

5v5 is abandoned because you can get the same rewards playing 3v3 which is logistically easier. Players will always take the easier path when presented with options in such a manner. The idea that 5v5 is less fun than 3v3 for whatever reason is your opinion. Most PvPers these days probably haven't even tried them.

But nevertheless, PvP participation has been dropping like a rock. There has to be changes. If this particular change funnels some players from arena to BGs, then so be it. Balancing the game and classes around 2v2 or 3v3 was a mistake from the beginning. BGs and 5v5 would be a much more realistic goal for class balance in the future.