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  1. #1

    Did dampening make dk's necro stronger or weaker? or just the same?

    Im really confused how it all works - did dampening buff dks necro? nerf it? what happened?

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Its the same.

    Lets say that Necro strike absorbs 50k healing, but at the same time, Scourge Strike does 50k damage.

    Blizz decided that either way you did it, you would need to heal the same. Dampening just makes it to where you need to heal even more.
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  3. #3
    Didn't they decide to not apply Dampening to it? It's neither a buff nor a nerf.

    There was controversy over whether applying Dampening to it was double-dipping, in the end Blizzard decided it was since a heal absorb of X is the same as X damage anyway. I dunno, I'm not quite sure myself how it'll play out.
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  4. #4
    Dampening does nothing to necrotic strike but I think its a problem.

    Necrotic strike as an ability isnt built around spamming it and trying to kill someone. Its most effective when you build a stack of it and then load up damage. with non necrotic strike abilities. It is a lot harder to know how much you have to prepare for a necrotic burst vs a damage burst.

    When a dk is on you now as a healer you have to pay really really close attention to necrotic stacking. if you go too long without healing off the stack you are absolutely boned if he bursts.

    Think about this if an enhancement shaman is on you. even if he blows all his burst, you know how its going to happen and you can see instantly how much healing is needed. With dampening and necrotic strike, if you let the necrotic strike get to high before he bursts, a: you have to heal through 30% of your health pool before even starting to heal your lost health, and B: you have a casting slow while this is going on. The casting slow is going to be up much longer with dampening.

    This isnt the case for any other class. Necrotic strike becomes more effective the less you can heal at a much faster rate than other abilities.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Pwellzor View Post
    When a dk is on you now as a healer you have to pay really really close attention to necrotic stacking. if you go too long without healing off the stack you are absolutely boned if he bursts.
    If you think about it this is the same as doing an equal quantity of normal damage, except for healer awareness. As long as the healer knows that X necrotic = X damage it's no different.

    The key thing is that NS does less overall damage than the pure damage equivalent.
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  6. #6
    ah kk thanks guys cleard up alot of confusion

  7. #7
    Pandaren Monk Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pwellzor View Post
    The casting slow is going to be up much longer with dampening.
    No it won't.

    You should actually read what dampening is. You seem completly out of touch.
    Dampening don't have any specific interaction with necrotic strike. Dampening lessen the healing done, period.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    If you think about it this is the same as doing an equal quantity of normal damage, except for healer awareness. As long as the healer knows that X necrotic = X damage it's no different.

    The key thing is that NS does less overall damage than the pure damage equivalent.
    This makes the healer play the UI more than against any other dps spec, while having a casting debuff. another unfortunate side effect of using it late game is that healers HAVE to cast as most instants dont have the punch that the do early game which makes the casting speed reduction huge. It isn't dispellable, it has to be healed, usually with casts to get a full stack cleared.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    No it won't.

    You should actually read what dampening is. You seem completly out of touch.
    Dampening don't have any specific interaction with necrotic strike. Dampening lessen the healing done, period.
    Ok cutiepie

    Say I heal for 100 and I get necrotic'ed stacked for 1000. it takes me ten heals to get the stack off.

    Now dampening is at 30%. I heal for 70. It takes 15 heals to get the debuff off.

    The numbers are obviously made up but hopefully you get it now. You seem to be out of touch with math.
    Last edited by Pwellzor; 2013-10-25 at 04:37 AM.

  9. #9
    You don't understand. If you are missing 1000 health and you heal for 100, it still takes 10 heals to top the person. If dampening is at 30%, you heal for 70, it STILL takes 15 heals to top the person.


    Necrotic strike IS damage.

    The only argument that makes sense for necrotic strike to be affected is when the healer has the necrotics on them. Because it takes them longer heal a set amount, it would take them longer to remove the necrotics. Healing someone who has no necrotics is easier because they don't have the casting speed slow.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    You don't understand. If you are missing 1000 health and you heal for 100, it still takes 10 heals to top the person. If dampening is at 30%, you heal for 70, it STILL takes 15 heals to top the person.
    Jesus, did you read what we were arguing about? The casting debuff is going to be up the longer the necrotic is up. You dont have anything to clear with just damage but you do with necrotic. You cant dispel the debuff.

    Edit: Debuff

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Pwellzor View Post
    Jesus, did you read what we were arguing about? The casting debuff is going to be up the longer the necrotic is up. You dont have anything to clear with just damage but you do with necrotic. You cant dispel the debuff.

    Edit: Debuff
    So then we come down to the question, is it worth nerfing necrotic when used on a non healer because it is too strong on a healer?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    The only argument that makes sense for necrotic strike to be affected is when the healer has the necrotics on them. Because it takes them longer heal a set amount, it would take them longer to remove the necrotics. Healing someone who has no necrotics is easier because they don't have the casting speed slow.
    Which is literally what I was arguing about when you said I don't understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    So then we come down to the question, is it worth nerfing necrotic when used on a non healer because it is too strong on a healer?
    It isn't meant to affect playstyle. Tell me this won't change how you view attacking a healer instead of a dps with a straight face. Or hell, put the casting slow on a timer separate from the healing absorb! Magic!

  13. #13
    Pandaren Monk Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pwellzor View Post
    Say I heal for 100 and I get necrotic'ed stacked for 1000. it takes me ten heals to get the stack off.

    Now dampening is at 30%. I heal for 70. It takes 15 heals to get the debuff off.
    Me love absurd numbers O_o

    The fact is than in the real world of arenas NS stack may fully absorb 1-2 heal, and will still absorb 1-2 maybe 3 heal after a few minutes of dampening (remember dampening is only 6% per minute). So yeah still no, NS doesn't have any specific interaction in the real world (but in your game where you heal for 100 and NS absorb for 1k it is probably game breaking... Happy to play wow instead)

  14. #14
    If they nerf necrotic under dampening, death knights stop using necrotic during dampening. How does that not change the playstyle?

  15. #15
    Lol, maybe 1-2 heals that are hardcasted and meant as a dump, or a cooldown use. (Btw, try hard casting twice versus a dk, its cute. Also, having to cast three heals versus two heals versus a dk can spell death. especially if this happens every time the dk wants to throw necrotics up again. Games don't last one dps rotation homie.

  16. #16
    Ok, so you are arguing that death knights are too strong, not that necrotic needs dampening. Got it, feel free to provide that feedback, I don't have experience lately with unholy pvp so I can't debate that either way.

    I do agree necrotics is too strong without dampening ONLY in the situation where you are using it on the healer. In every other situation it is iequal. With dampening, it is weaker in all situations. Maybe the correct idea would be just to remove the casting speed snare or make that part dispellable.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    If they nerf necrotic under dampening, death knights stop using necrotic during dampening. How does that not change the playstyle?
    So DK's are the only ones who get an advantage from dampening so its ok. And yes changing your playstyle in this case is recognizing an advantage, you wouldn't do it otherwise. I really doubt they'll nerf it, but I feel it on two of my three healers. The druid is much less affected than my shaman or priest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    Ok, so you are arguing that death knights are too strong, not that necrotic needs dampening. Got it, feel free to provide that feedback, I don't have experience lately with unholy pvp so I can't debate that either way.

    I do agree necrotics is too strong without dampening ONLY in the situation where you are using it on the healer. In every other situation it is iequal. With dampening, it is weaker in all situations. Maybe the correct idea would be just to remove the casting speed snare or make that part dispellable.
    Death knights are strong with respect to what we are currently talking about. training a healer, the casting comment was relevant because you HAVE TO CAST with dampening or you will not survive.

    I also agree with the casting speed comment. I dont even want it dispellable, i just want it detached from the healing absorb. Like I said, put it on a timer.

  18. #18
    I don't know why people are having trouble understanding this. If I explained this to my 10 year old brother, he'd understand it without going into it. And that's not an insult, that would actually happen.

    Necrotic Strike is an offensive ability. Dampening is meant to reduce the defensive abilities to make offensive abilities more dangerous.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Megamisama View Post
    I don't know why people are having trouble understanding this. If I explained this to my 10 year old brother, he'd understand it without going into it. And that's not an insult, that would actually happen.

    Necrotic Strike is an offensive ability. Dampening is meant to reduce the defensive abilities to make offensive abilities more dangerous.
    Because this isnt tug of war. Like we are currently discussing, it isnt just the output difference of necrotic, it is the combination with the way you have to counter it coupled with the debuff attached to it.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Pwellzor View Post
    So DK's are the only ones who get an advantage from dampening so its ok. And yes changing your playstyle in this case is recognizing an advantage, you wouldn't do it otherwise. I really doubt they'll nerf it, but I feel it on two of my three healers. The druid is much less affected than my shaman or priest.
    Why is changing your playstyle in terms of ability use ok ( using SS during dampening because NS is affected by it in this example) but changing your target in terms of ability use not ok?

    Wouldn't dampening make targeting a healer more attractive anyway? If its harder for them to heal? You should kick them while they are down....

    Edit: As others have said though in other discussions, the most effective way to remove NS when under a high stack would be to control the death knight and let it fall off. This is completely doable with a reasonable cc and los. Its not always available but it certainly is an option. Its worth noting this is a great weakness of necrotic strike, without maintenance, it is damage that actually never happened.

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