1. #1

    Simcraft elemental weird stats

    Hey everybody..

    I did recently begin to use simcraft for my elemental shaman http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Szozzo/simple

    and the stats simcraft is suggesting me are always different if I get one new piece of gear. I'm simming with 10k alliterations and patchwerk fight style.

    -Before getting the 4th piece of my t16 set Simcraft was suggesting me to go for a mastery>crit>haste build.. I gave it a shot and I didn't find it so awful..
    I was sitting at about 29%haste 82% mastery and 21,25% crit

    -Then I got the 4th piece of the set and Simcraft gave me these results Haste>crit>Mastery..I'd assume that Haste is considered higher because of the casts of the elemental we summon with the 4pc t16 and the single target fight style..

    -Yesterday I won the Amp trinket WFHC and the suggested stats are again Haste>Crit>Mastery..

    I'm doubting about the stats Simcraft is suggesting me.. I cannot imagine going with such a build since I'm already getting angry when at the pull I'm going under the GCD and wasting dps..

    Am I doing something wrong or what? Should I stay with the build I'm using right now (mastery>haste>crit)?

    Since I'm a newbie using Simcraft can anyone try to sim it for me and tell me what could be the best build for me?

    Thank you very much

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Szot View Post
    Hey everybody..

    I did recently begin to use simcraft for my elemental shaman http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Szozzo/simple

    and the stats simcraft is suggesting me are always different if I get one new piece of gear. I'm simming with 10k alliterations and patchwerk fight style.

    -Before getting the 4th piece of my t16 set Simcraft was suggesting me to go for a mastery>crit>haste build.. I gave it a shot and I didn't find it so awful..
    I was sitting at about 29%haste 82% mastery and 21,25% crit

    -Then I got the 4th piece of the set and Simcraft gave me these results Haste>crit>Mastery..I'd assume that Haste is considered higher because of the casts of the elemental we summon with the 4pc t16 and the single target fight style..

    -Yesterday I won the Amp trinket WFHC and the suggested stats are again Haste>Crit>Mastery..

    I'm doubting about the stats Simcraft is suggesting me.. I cannot imagine going with such a build since I'm already getting angry when at the pull I'm going under the GCD and wasting dps..

    Am I doing something wrong or what? Should I stay with the build I'm using right now (mastery>haste>crit)?
    as
    Since I'm a newbie using Simcraft can anyone try to sim it for me and tell me what could be the best build for me?

    Thank you very much
    1) Haste and Mastery require a strict balance in order to maintain their nearly equivalent ratings. The fact that you have 82% mastery and only 35% haste means that you've probably overly prioritized to the point that Mastery is not as valuable anymore. Tickle has mentioned that there is are points in this tier when haste will overtake mastery once again as the top-priority stat. When you are pushing nearly 100% mastery, it's not surprising for mastery to become devalued.

    2) Regarding your concerns about adding more haste, the only time you are ever over the GCD cap for haste with your current gear is when Bloodlust and LMG are proccing at the same time. That doesn't mean it's useless, it just means it's less valuable. What are your actual scale factors? Were both Haste and Mastery still more than half of Int's value?

    3) Are you running a Cleave sim? Crit rating is always valuable any time you run a cleave sim, as you will end up casting far more chain lightnings than lava bursts.

    4) Scale Factors should NEVER cause you to regem, as they are based on adding a large amount of a stat, resimming and then dividing by the amount added. Scale Factors should only determine how you value FUTURE gear. If you want to make sure you are gemming correctly, run a reforge plot of haste/mastery.
    Last edited by jimmyolsen; 2013-10-24 at 03:34 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyolsen View Post
    1) Haste and Mastery require a strict balance in order to maintain their nearly equivalent ratings. The fact that you have 82% mastery and only 35% haste means that you've probably overly prioritized to the point that Mastery is not as valuable anymore. Tickle has mentioned that there is are points in this tier when haste will overtake mastery once again as the top-priority stat. When you are pushing nearly 100% mastery, it's not surprising for mastery to become devalued.

    2) Regarding your concerns about adding more haste, the only time you are ever over the GCD cap for haste with your current gear is when Bloodlust and LMG are proccing at the same time. That doesn't mean it's useless, it just means it's less valuable. What are your actual scale factors? Were both Haste and Mastery still more than half of Int's value?

    3) Are you running a Cleave sim? Crit rating is always valuable any time you run a cleave sim, as you will end up casting far more chain lightnings than lava bursts.

    4) Scale Factors should NEVER cause you to regem, as they are based on adding a large amount of a stat, resimming and then dividing by the amount added. Scale Factors should only determine how you value FUTURE gear. If you want to make sure you are gemming correctly, run a reforge plot of haste/mastery.

    I've Always simmed a single target fight (patchwerk style) and the scale factors are 7.48 INT 3.74 CRIT 4.34 HASTE 3.34 MASTERY

    P.S.
    If you say ''Haste and Mastery require a strict balance in order to maintain their nearly equivalent ratings'' why are most ele shammies nearly to my ilvl going for a Mastery>Haste build where Mastery is about 90% and haste 30-35%?

  4. #4
    Well, with elemental blast, if it gives mastery buff, you're above 100%
    probably that's why mastery got worse suddenly.

    dunno what is the sweet spot for it, but maybe you can try to use UF, or else just drop a bit of mastery until you won't get overcapped when you get mastery buff from EB.

    Anyway, i don't know for sure, but try to change stats/talents around a bit and see if it makes sense.
    scale factors are calculated in jumps of 1000 iirc, so ofc mastery will scale worse when you're already overcapped now with EB buff.

    Reforge plots might also give you a better insight there I guess.

  5. #5
    With EB Mastery proc I'm going up to 100,83%..Now I'm gonna try to reforge a bit of mastery into haste (I'll try to keep it under 100%) to see if the stat scaling gives mastery a higher value.

    I'll let you know thx

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Szot View Post
    I've Always simmed a single target fight (patchwerk style) and the scale factors are 7.48 INT 3.74 CRIT 4.34 HASTE 3.34 MASTERY

    P.S.
    If you say ''Haste and Mastery require a strict balance in order to maintain their nearly equivalent ratings'' why are most ele shammies nearly to my ilvl going for a Mastery>Haste build where Mastery is about 90% and haste 30-35%?
    As woopytwoop points out, your usage of EB and the way simcraft calculates scale factors are both causing overcaps of mastery. Because of that, your scale factors further prove my point regarding the failure of the balance. At 7.48 int and 3.34 Mastery, mastery is no longer with more than 50% of int's value, where as your haste value is nearly 58% and your crit value is 50% exactly. You have prioritized mastery to a point where it is less valuable going forward. That doesn't mean that you've gemmed and reforged incorrectly to maximize DPS, it just means that any additional mastery will no longer give you the type of increase you'd expect. Furthermore, just because something is sub-optimal, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. If your raid needs you to focus on AOE damage, than by all-means keep stacking mastery.

    You should not reforge your gear until you run a reforge plot to make sure that it's actually a dps increase to do so. Just because additional mastery is not as useful as additional haste or crit does not mean that a reduction of mastery in favor of that haste/crit is beneficial.
    Last edited by jimmyolsen; 2013-10-24 at 08:30 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Szot View Post
    Hey everybody..

    I did recently begin to use simcraft for my elemental shaman http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Szozzo/simple

    and the stats simcraft is suggesting me are always different if I get one new piece of gear. I'm simming with 10k alliterations and patchwerk fight style.

    -Before getting the 4th piece of my t16 set Simcraft was suggesting me to go for a mastery>crit>haste build.. I gave it a shot and I didn't find it so awful..
    I was sitting at about 29%haste 82% mastery and 21,25% crit

    -Then I got the 4th piece of the set and Simcraft gave me these results Haste>crit>Mastery..I'd assume that Haste is considered higher because of the casts of the elemental we summon with the 4pc t16 and the single target fight style..

    -Yesterday I won the Amp trinket WFHC and the suggested stats are again Haste>Crit>Mastery..

    I'm doubting about the stats Simcraft is suggesting me.. I cannot imagine going with such a build since I'm already getting angry when at the pull I'm going under the GCD and wasting dps..

    Am I doing something wrong or what? Should I stay with the build I'm using right now (mastery>haste>crit)?

    Since I'm a newbie using Simcraft can anyone try to sim it for me and tell me what could be the best build for me?

    Thank you very much
    Are you familiar with the concept of derivative?

    The derivative value is tied to the point on which it is calculated, so they are always unique to the gear (with gems and reforges) you're wearing.

    Scale factors are the partial derivative of your DPS in regards to each stat, meaning that on that particular state, 1 point of mastery will give you 4.5 points of dps, 1 point of haste will give you 4.8 points of dps and 1 point of int will give you 7.5 points of dps (numbers are an example only).

    Scale factors can also vary a lot if you're just past a haste breakpoint.
    If they are changing a lot you might just have hit a point where finesse tuning takes place.

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