Page 13 of 23 FirstFirst ...
3
11
12
13
14
15
... LastLast
  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarletpiston View Post
    Can't imagine running a restaurant where everyone pays $15 for their meal but 2% eat prime rib while the others eat toasted cheese sandwiches while the prime rib eaters ridicule them.
    Sounds just a ridiculous as a tournament that gives everyone the same prize
    90 Shadow Priest Wýcked <Incarnate> Nerzhul
    90 Death Knight Yzf <RX> Lethon

  2. #242
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Tampa Bay, Florida
    Posts
    4,799
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Flexi is amazingly good, i'd be more than happy to see it replace normals. or maybe have another mode of flexi with higher tuning.

    The graveyard of heroic content can stay as it is I guess. ^ ^ I don't care and it looks like no one else does either.
    What it should be is Flex replace normal 10/25. Heroic stays as 10 OR 25 (set groups only, no Flex) but gets scaled down just a bit, so for example you'd have the (now defunct) normal mode health/damage plus the heroic mechanics, so heroic stays at the same comparable difficulty level, as Flex -> Heroic (without Normal) would be too large of a jump for 99.9% of players.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wycked View Post
    Its the guys that do heroics with absurd gear/titles/mounts that gives the rejects something to aspire to. While only us fraction of a percent players clear heroics while they're current, the envy and greed created by what we do keeps the flex monkeys swearing they can do it someday which keeps them paying their 15$ a month. The 1% keeps the other 99% playing.
    You keep telling yourself that. The reality though is the heroic with special gear/titles/mounts could go away and I'd wager that most people would still raid. Most of the the time there's only one or maybe two guilds on the majority of servers (i.e. outside of the Big Ten) that can clear heroic content when its current anyways, so I don't think the majority of raid guilds care what the one top guild on the server can do because they always do it. In fact I'd go so far as to say that kind of peer pressure is bad for the game, because it forces the mentality that if you aren't as good as Guild X, you're a scrub. Contrast that to the old days where your guild was happy at the level they were able to do, and strive to finish it to move on, but didn't have that pressure of "Oh you aren't already working on heroic modes? You must be terrible".
    NOBLESHIELD
    Raids & Dungeons Moderator | Twitch Stream | Wayniac#1291


  3. #243
    Maybe you should compare the numbers from similar time frames. SwP was out for 8 months before Wrath was officially launched and SoO has been out for 1½ months and Garrosh has been killable on flex for one week. This is so obvious you must have ignored this intentionally to support your argument which is stupid to begin with.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    What it should be is Flex replace normal 10/25. Heroic stays as 10 OR 25 (set groups only, no Flex) but gets scaled down just a bit, so for example you'd have the (now defunct) normal mode health/damage plus the heroic mechanics, so heroic stays at the same comparable difficulty level, as Flex -> Heroic (without Normal) would be too large of a jump for 99.9% of players.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You keep telling yourself that. The reality though is the heroic with special gear/titles/mounts could go away and I'd wager that most people would still raid. Most of the the time there's only one or maybe two guilds on the majority of servers (i.e. outside of the Big Ten) that can clear heroic content when its current anyways, so I don't think the majority of raid guilds care what the one top guild on the server can do because they always do it. In fact I'd go so far as to say that kind of peer pressure is bad for the game, because it forces the mentality that if you aren't as good as Guild X, you're a scrub. Contrast that to the old days where your guild was happy at the level they were able to do, and strive to finish it to move on, but didn't have that pressure of "Oh you aren't already working on heroic modes? You must be terrible".
    In your mythical land where getting rid of normals for flex would be a good idea could you explain something to me? After you beat a game what do you do? The heroic raiders continue pushing to maximize gear, split up into multiple raids to get even more gear for the next progression race. What do the flex/normal monkeys do? The ones who "cant even commit to a raid schedule". Keep paying for a game they beat just for the sake of getting more gear? communism is perfect in theory, in practice, everyone being equal just makes everyone stop trying. its the competition that keeps wow alive, having people that are better than you to edge you on. Your argument is youthful ignorance.
    90 Shadow Priest Wýcked <Incarnate> Nerzhul
    90 Death Knight Yzf <RX> Lethon

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarletpiston View Post
    Can't imagine running a restaurant where everyone pays $15 for their meal but 2% eat prime rib while the others eat toasted cheese sandwiches while the prime rib eaters ridicule them.
    Even more ridiculous when everyone has equal opportunity and access to the Prime Rib (which is probably why those that don't choose Prime Rib are being ridiculed, especially when they complain about their toasted cheese, and the toasted cheese tastes exactly the same...) Get served!
    Last edited by Elestia; 2013-10-21 at 08:00 PM.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Clearly it doesn't as every mmo that copied it also failed. As the SIGNATURE content of these games it deserves a lion share of the blame as the lion share of the development goes towards it.

    Why I call it a failed model is because it never held anybodies interest at max lvl for very long. It never had appeal up until lfr came and as noted before it largely has appeal because the game is funneling players into it. 60% of people doing it is ABBYSMAL given how much the game funnels you into it. We'll see how many people return for the patch. One more raid is basically the same shit they get every patch I'm not sure why this one should stand out to draw players back and the drop in partcipation suggests very much that it's not.
    When you say signature content of "these games", do you have actual games in mind? Which subbed MMO has failed because of having raiding as the signature content?

    Also, 60% of 2.3 million is roughly 1.3 million people. There are many successful MMOs out there that doesn't even have 1.3 million subscribers. I think saying that is abysmal is fairly unrealistic and not seeing the whole picture. Another funny thing about keeping interest... I feel comfortable saying that pvp, timeless isle, questing, dungeon, story, crafting, raiding, pet battling are all pretty bad at keeping majority of people's interest at max level. Blizzard is keeping most people's interest through power progression via gearing. Take gear away, majority of people will not do any of the said activity for extended amount of time. Blizzard is simply choosing to do this through raiding.
    their moving their table over their
    they're moving they're table over they're
    there moving there table over there

  7. #247
    The number of people doing wing 4 flex (when it's been out for less than 1 week) or killing Garrosh normal already isn't representative of the majority of those with some interest in raiding. When you consider that LFR wing 4 isn't out yet too then that somewhat explains those graphs.

    My Guilds team 2 only just got Malkorok normal down... They raid but they wouldn't be counted. Guilds progress at different speeds. Why is it bad if some guild don't manage to clear all content in a month. Why would this suggest people aren't interested in raiding ?

    As for LFR.... well I know A LOT of people who don't do LFR in the 1st few weeks because they prefer to wait till some of the players know the fights and avoid the pain. They are interested in raiding but might not have completed any of the raids yet (even wing 1 LFR)... and as mentioned before LFR raiders wont feature on the charts at all because LFR wing 4 isn't even out.
    Last edited by Paulosio; 2013-10-21 at 09:02 PM.

  8. #248
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Quote Originally Posted by wow2011 View Post
    When you say signature content of "these games", do you have actual games in mind? Which subbed MMO has failed because of having raiding as the signature content?

    Also, 60% of 2.3 million is roughly 1.3 million people. There are many successful MMOs out there that doesn't even have 1.3 million subscribers. I think saying that is abysmal is fairly unrealistic and not seeing the whole picture. Another funny thing about keeping interest... I feel comfortable saying that pvp, timeless isle, questing, dungeon, story, crafting, raiding, pet battling are all pretty bad at keeping majority of people's interest at max level. Blizzard is keeping most people's interest through power progression via gearing. Take gear away, majority of people will not do any of the said activity for extended amount of time. Blizzard is simply choosing to do this through raiding.
    LOtR, SWTOR, Warhammer and countless others following the raid or die progression model. LFR is an ABYSSMAL failure in that the entire end game is seemingly designed around it and yet only 60% still choose to do it and worse still it shows no signs of abating the subscriber loss. I agree that gear is keeping peoples interests. Raiding is a cock block to getting gear for casual players at any rate. RNG is a cock block to getting gear. All the decisions made about gearing this expansion serve as cock blocks to getting gear and basically are just ways to shove people in raiding without any better alternative. Eventually even the gear won't keep people interested.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-10-21 at 08:23 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    LOtR, SWTOR, Warhammer and countless others following the raid or die progression model. LFR is an ABYSSMAL failure in that the entire end game is seemingly designed around it and yet only 60% still choose to do it and worse still it shows no signs of abating the subscriber loss. I agree that gear is keeping peoples interests. Raiding is a cock block to getting gear for casual players at any rate. RNG is a cock block to getting gear. All the decisions made about gearing this expansion serve as cock blocks to getting gear and basically are just ways to shove people in raiding without any better alternative. Eventually even the gear won't keep people interested.
    You really have no perspective if you want to call 60% of participation rate for a 10 year old game an abysmal failure. Assuming 60% is the actual percentage, you are talking about Blizzard producing a game that gets 4.2 million (60% of 7 million subs) people grinding gears in their gear wheel. Now you have me curious, what is considered "mild failure" and "small success" in your book? And with that in mind, which MMO has ever succeeded or is every single MMO in history a super duper giant failure?

    The "cock block" you are describing is called game design. It has nothing to do with casuals, getting gear, raiding etc. Cock block is there to keep you paying a monthly sub. Trust me, Blizzard will change the way you obtain gears if the main method isn't through raiding. If everyone can get BiS through questing/5man then expect the method of getting gear to become more grindy.
    their moving their table over their
    they're moving they're table over they're
    there moving there table over there

  10. #250
    I'm not sure why heroic even exists anymore honestly. Seems like barely anyone does it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  11. #251
    theres a few bosses siegecrafter and spoils that might be a little difficult for most casual guilds.

  12. #252
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Quote Originally Posted by wow2011 View Post
    You really have no perspective if you want to call 60% of participation rate for a 10 year old game an abysmal failure. Assuming 60% is the actual percentage, you are talking about Blizzard producing a game that gets 4.2 million (60% of 7 million subs) people grinding gears in their gear wheel. Now you have me curious, what is considered "mild failure" and "small success" in your book? And with that in mind, which MMO has ever succeeded or is every single MMO in history a super duper giant failure?

    The "cock block" you are describing is called game design. It has nothing to do with casuals, getting gear, raiding etc. Cock block is there to keep you paying a monthly sub. Trust me, Blizzard will change the way you obtain gears if the main method isn't through raiding. If everyone can get BiS through questing/5man then expect the method of getting gear to become more grindy.
    60% participation rate when end game is almost entirely designed around that for progression is an abysmal failure. That figure should actually be much higher since all other alternatives are pretty fucking shitty or really non existent.

    The cock block hasn't succeed in keeping me paying a monthly sub. In fact it hasn't done anything to stem the bleed of subscribers. I can make a pretty good argument it's exacerbated it but you probably won't buy that anyway.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    I'm not sure why heroic even exists anymore honestly. Seems like barely anyone does it.
    You'd be surprised.

  14. #254
    Immortal Tierbook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Charleston SC
    Posts
    7,328
    what about how only 36% of people have completed the first wing
    You're a fine example of how gamer communities have become infested with endlessly whining and bitching, arrogant, opinionated, unreasonable, all the way immature, completely delusional, tendentially psychotic, insulting individuals one really doesn't want to be linked with. And playing with you guys is certainly no fun at all. I don't know where this kind of folks spawns from. Must be a nest somewhere ...
    A fine summarization of the community

  15. #255
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    12,984
    Quote Originally Posted by Wycked View Post
    Sounds just a ridiculous as a tournament that gives everyone the same prize
    Then it's a good thing that people don't get the same prize.
    The best players get a gold medal while the rest gets a silver or bronze one.
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    I'm not sure why heroic even exists anymore honestly. Seems like barely anyone does it.
    Because the effort-reward ratio for the development-team is really good to them.
    It takes a minimum amount of work and people are extremely happy with it.
    Only a few actually do heroic raids, but the world first race is still quite popular and followed by a lot of people.

  16. #256
    Guess most of us look at heroic raiding as a spectator sport and in that respect most of us don't deserve the rewards that a pro athlete gets.
    I don't mind buying tickets to a football game because I enjoy watching the sport, but funding heroic raiders with my purchase when I have very little interest in their achievements kind of sucks.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Perhaps Blizzard would be smart to recognize this and to start focussing on making LFR / queueable content more the main content and reward of the game than expecting people to commit to raidguilds and their shedules.

    Mod edit: Changed title to reflect actual situation
    God fucking hell no! I'm barely renewing my subscription anyways. If all I had in WoW was, Looking For Retard, I'd cancel my sub and uninstall the game by the end of the hour.

    The only reason I still touch LFR is that I am hunting for Tier Bonuses. As soon as that is set, I will never touch LFR again, with a ten foot pole.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooneye View Post
    Sexual assault is not always rape.
    *slowclap*
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooneye View Post
    Woman rapes a guy, gives birth to child and has custody of the child.
    I don't see why you should take the child from the woman unless she abuses it.

  18. #258
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    12,984
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarletpiston View Post
    Guess most of us look at heroic raiding as a spectator sport and in that respect most of us don't deserve the rewards that a pro athlete gets.
    It's exactly how I see Heroic Raiding: I like to watch the race and I like to see the videos.
    And as long as it's not the majority of their budget I am fine with Blizzard supporting these things.
    The Blizzcon 'live raid' is always one of the things I look forward too.
    I don't mind buying tickets to a football game because I enjoy watching the sport, but funding heroic raiders with my purchase when I have very little interest in their achievements kind of sucks.
    That's the 'pain' of having multiple subscribers to a game; you will always pay for something that you don't care for.
    But you can always find a reason for them to continue this.
    I am pretty sure that the removal of Heroic Raids would affect your playing.

    I know it affects me, my server is filled with heroic-raiding guilds and that results into a massive amount of greatly geared LFR-players and easy access to Flex-raiding.
    Today I did a LFR with a DK-tank from my server that had over 1.3m HP and he could tank some bosses with close to no healing required.
    Almost every LFR I have some DPS that is pulling over 300k DPS.
    Last week we even cleared ToT while breaking every record on the bosses by two minutes, it was amazing
    The Timeless Isle-experience with a realm that is so well-geared is just amazing.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarletpiston View Post
    Guess most of us look at heroic raiding as a spectator sport and in that respect most of us don't deserve the rewards that a pro athlete gets.
    I don't mind buying tickets to a football game because I enjoy watching the sport, but funding heroic raiders with my purchase when I have very little interest in their achievements kind of sucks.
    You have access to the same content. You aren't funding anything. You have access to the same content on LFR, Flex and Normal. Plenty of difficulty levels adjusted to your personal level of investment. (Let's face it, the only difference between a Heroic Raider and an LFR raider is investment. It's the number of hours and effort a Heroic raider is willing to invest into practice, gearing, research, etc.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooneye View Post
    Sexual assault is not always rape.
    *slowclap*
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooneye View Post
    Woman rapes a guy, gives birth to child and has custody of the child.
    I don't see why you should take the child from the woman unless she abuses it.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    You have access to the same content. You aren't funding anything. You have access to the same content on LFR, Flex and Normal. Plenty of difficulty levels adjusted to your personal level of investment. (Let's face it, the only difference between a Heroic Raider and an LFR raider is investment. It's the number of hours and effort a Heroic raider is willing to invest into practice, gearing, research, etc.)
    Not really, time investment isn't the only thing.

    There are some heroic raiders who spend less time progressing and raiding than LFR heros spend in LFR.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •