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  1. #41
    Bloodsail Admiral Memory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizendragon View Post
    Either way the numbers to the previous tier are showing LFR as well. to quote the main page:
    Yes, and you're missing the point. Exactly since LFR Garrosh isn't open yet, those numbers show how many people killed Garrosh in Normal / Flex mode (regardless of also showing LFR for previous tiers). Hence the point that the OP is trying to make: only 2% of players killed Garrosh in Normal / Flex mode = normal modes are as elite as Sunwell was back in the days.
    Which is wrong and he's grossly misinterpreting the data: like other people say, it's too early and one should look at how many people cleared Normal modes in a few months from now, before making comparison with end of Vanilla / BC raiding.
    Just think before making an argument.

  2. #42
    Lol, nobody cleaned Sunwell in 6 weeks after its release. OP, you are definitely comparing apples to oranges and making absurd statements in progress.
    I can make just the same absurd statement and tell that, due to 2% of raiders killed final boss now, old raids are moar hard than today ones.
    Last edited by l33t; 2013-10-21 at 07:42 AM. Reason: dumbstick

  3. #43
    Regardless, if the numbers are being SLIGHTLY misinterpreted. The fact remains, a MAJORITY of the player base will not raid Flex or Normal mode raiding. The TC, OP or whatever point still stands.

    I see a lot of strawman arguments complaining in this route. It doesn't negate the point.

    Please find some constructive feed back as why a majority of players aren't raiding.

  4. #44
    Bloodsail Admiral Memory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    Please find some constructive feed back as why a majority of players aren't raiding.
    Because it's too difficult and/or time demanding? Because they can see the same bosses with reduced effort in LFR? Because they're not interested in raids? Because they're not interested in social activities?

  5. #45
    I have my achievements disabled on alts, and I'm sure I'm not alone. This isn't a very good metric.

  6. #46
    Scarab Lord MasterOfKnees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maezer View Post
    I call BS on your numbers. I know several servers had no one clear Sunwell until the WotLK patch. I hardly think 2% of the population cleared it.
    Every server got to clear Sunwell, it's exclusiveness is far overrated these days. There's a good chunk of players who entered Sunwell, pretty much double the amount of people that got to clear Naxx40.

    A good comparison would be 10% of all raiders got into Sunwell, where as only 5% would have gotten into Naxx40, especially because of the rep-requirement of Naxx40.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Memory View Post
    Because it's too difficult and/or time demanding? Because they can see the same bosses with reduced effort in LFR? Because they're not interested in raids? Because they're not interested in social activities?
    Are you asking questions or giving answers? Let's assume you are giving answers.. cause you're answering questions with questions. Rude...

    So a VAST majority of people, aren't interested in the lower middle, middle, or top tier content. Can someone tell me why Blizzard is making content for raiders?

  8. #48
    I am Murloc! Grading's Avatar
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    I'll never understand why people care so much about others they have no connection with, at all, in this game.

    You decide your own progress and worth, don't let others decide it for you.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    Can someone tell me why Blizzard is making content for raiders?
    That is like asking why is Blizzard making BGs for PVPers. A number of developers are also raiders as well including GC who is a heroic raider.

  10. #50
    Bloodsail Admiral Memory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    Are you asking questions or giving answers? Let's assume you are giving answers.. cause you're answering questions with questions. Rude...
    I'm giving answers phrased as rhetorical questions. Rude, perharps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    So a VAST majority of people, aren't interested in the lower middle, middle, or top tier content. Can someone tell me why Blizzard is making content for raiders?
    1. How vast? What numbers are we talking about?
    2. What do you rate as lower middle? If it's Flex, it was first introduced with SoO, how do you have a fair guess on how many people won't clear SoO flex?
    3. Finally, your entire argument is based on the old line that Blizzard should make content according on how many people clear that content, which is biased in many ways, but we should first adress the previous two points.

  11. #51
    I havne't killed Garrosh yet because I can't be arsed with joke mode raiding and I'd rather get my first kill on normal mode where it actually takes more than one evening to kill a boss. Sure, taking more than 1 evening to kill Garrosh must mean I'm an awful raider, whatever, but I like there to be at least some challenge; and so far my experiences in flex have been on the whole easier than LFR, in that I went with my guild so theres not so much slack.

    So I haven't been counted in those statistics but I'd be surprised if we haven't killed HC Garrosh by the end of the expansion
    "Moral reason must learn how to make coercion its ally without running the risk of a Pyrrhic victory in which the ally exploits and negates the triumph."

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfKnees View Post
    Every server got to clear Sunwell, it's exclusiveness is far overrated these days. There's a good chunk of players who entered Sunwell, pretty much double the amount of people that got to clear Naxx40.

    A good comparison would be 10% of all raiders got into Sunwell, where as only 5% would have gotten into Naxx40, especially because of the rep-requirement of Naxx40.
    9 million or so players, that TBC had, when Sunwell launched.

    Only a few percentage raided, something like 10%. I'm pretty sure, I'm being generous too. Which makes around 900,000. Then as you say, 10% of THEM raided Sunwell, which make around 90,000 players total. Which makes <1% of the player base seen Sunwell at all. Yeah, not exclusive at all. PFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTT.

  13. #53
    Herald of the Titans Valyrian Stormclaw's Avatar
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    Times are changing friend.

    Us older folk who remembered and very much appreciated the days of very long and challenging real RPGs and when we actually had to manually install our mods, are.fading away. The new generation doesn't want long storylines or difficult battles, they just want instant fun. So, the younger generation more often than not is content to linger a tier or two behind for raids or do the really easy, not as much effort involved flex raids. People don't wanna read a strategy guide on fourteen raid bosses or spend 60 hours of work to obtain BiS gear, nor commit to having to show up for a three hour long, difficult event which requires actual thinking.

  14. #54
    People using TBC as an example where only 2% cleared certain raids, that was overall in the expansion. With SoO only being out 6 weeks, it isn't surprising. Most people aren't there yet. That 2% will shoot up as the weeks go on. Guaranteed. Plus the numbers are skewered as it's only 2.5 million accounts with some being guildless. The sample size is too small.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Memory View Post
    I'm giving answers phrased as rhetorical questions. Rude, perharps.


    1. How vast? What numbers are we talking about?

    If less than 40% of your player base isn't touching your Top Tier content, much less, the more difficult iterations. Then that is a problem.

    2. What do you rate as lower middle? If it's Flex, it was first introduced with SoO, how do you have a fair guess on how many people won't clear SoO flex?

    While, I will concede to the point that Flex was just released. LFR to Normal wasn't that big of a step. If people aren't doing Normals, then HTF is Flex going to change that?

    3. Finally, your entire argument is based on the old line that Blizzard should make content according on how many people clear that content, which is biased in many ways, but we should first address(Fixed it for you) the previous two points.

    No, it isn't first off. My whole point isn't that raid content shouldn't be made, but why is it Top Tier content? The content is obviously gated, obviously catered, and specifically tailored to a small percentage of players. Why is Blizzard shoving funds down something, after 7 years, that isn't working as intended? My guess is because they know you aren't going to see it. Need a continued reason for you to log in. Keep you chasing the carrot.
    Bold response.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    Please find some constructive feed back as why a majority of players aren't raiding.
    I'm assuming that completion numbers will go way up once players start completing LFR content. However, SWTOR and Rift went f2p and are doing fairly well, GW2 is doing relatively well...it's very likely chipping away at sub numbers. I'm anticipating another sub loss announcement soon.

  17. #57
    Brewmaster Marxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Perhaps Blizzard would be smart to recognize this and to start focussing on making LFR / queueable content more the main content and reward of the game than expecting people to commit to raidguilds and their shedules.
    Why would they do this?

    Flex and especially LFR are plenty rewarding already. LFR especially requires literally zero effort. Queue in, put someone on follow, get free loot. I'm not condoning that behavior, but that's all it takes to get the rewards. It's already too rewarding for the amount of effort involved in my opinion. Flex is a little different, it's actually real content, but just barely. It's still pretty faceroll if you're appropriately geared.

  18. #58
    The Patient
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    > compare tot and siege completion rates when they're out for the same amount of time

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by KClovesGaming View Post
    Plus the numbers are skewered as it's only 2.5 million accounts with some being guildless. The sample size is too small.
    Considering that the game is at 7.7 (?) mil subs now, that is a more than adequate sample size.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntardicus View Post
    The discussion isn't aimed at LFR, but the number of people raiding in flex/normal/heroic. Still misinterpreted.
    Our RG raid 3 times a week, still we are only 13/14!
    We have few very skilled players who rank top 200 - and still we haven't done Garosh on normal. I bet there are MANY, MANY less skilled players who are trying their best.

    This post proves NOTHING. 2% out of thin air! I bet, there are more that 20% who have done 1st boss, even 1st wing!
    Does not mean they don't raid.

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