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  1. #1

    [3v3] EU PvP Representation (20.10)

    [EU] 3v3 Representation

    Introduction
    Hey guys, after creating my previous thread I got a lot of comments saying that people would be interested in seeing how representation would change once people got Grievous weapons. I've left it a week since anyone could get weapons and have got the new data to share with you all.

    As I said before, this thread is being created to spark constructive discussion about class balance and the changes 5.5 might bring. I don't want to hand out infractions because people start flaming and trolling people who play x class or spec.

    This thread is going to be split into two major parts. The first is going to be looking at representation for the overall ladder, the second is going to be looking at data for people above 2200 rating. This will show us which classes the majority of people are playing overall, and which classes perform better at higher ratings (or have less counters).



    Contents
    • Introduction

      Entire Ladder
    • Class Representation
    • Class Representation (Graph)
    • Healer Spec Representation (Graph)
    • Damage Class Representation (Graph)
    • Damage Spec Representation (Graph)

      2200+
    • Class Representation
    • Class Representation (Graph)
    • Healer Spec Representation (Graph)
    • Damage Class Representation (Graph)
    • Damage Spec Representation (Graph)




    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------Ladder Representation------------------------------------------------
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    (Ladder) Overall Class Representation
    This is all classes with all specs included. This was the top 1004 characters on the EU ladder (it changes slightly every time), and simply by filtering each spec I got the numbers for each. The format is: the current amount of each class on the ladder, followed by the amount of each class from the first week of the season and then the % change between the two.

     Death Knight - 57 (88) -35%
     Druid - 78 (56) +39%
     Hunter - 81 (89) -9%
     Mage - 103 (84) +22%
     Monk - 18 (13) +38%
     Paladin - 66 (67) -1%
     Priest - 141 (202) -30%
     Rogue - 35 (24) +46%
     Shaman - 176 (149) +18%
     Warlock - 78 (66) +18%
     Warrior -171 (164) +4%

    Found here: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/leaderboards/3v3





    (Ladder) Class Representation (Graph)



    Priest numbers have fallen considerably since the first week, since the majority of those on ladder were healers this has caused shaman and druid representation to go up (as these are considered the second best two healers), although Death Knights suffered the biggest representation hit. For DPS classes, Mage, Warlock and Rogue have all seen reasonable increases while Hunter has decreased by 9%. Others have stayed roughly the same. Monks are still heavily under represented overall.





    (Ladder) Healer Representation (Graph)



    This is a graph purely comparing the healing specs of the 5 classes. Mistweaver Monk representation has jumped a massive 1.4% since the first week of Arena, with now a grand total of 5 on the entire EU ladder. Disc representation is pretty shocking, considering last patch it was nearly 30%... now it's joint worst with MW - though this is partly due to Holy being the more viable spec. Resto Shaman has increased a lot since the first week, while Paladin and Druid have seen slight increases. I imagine this is down to the PoM nerf meaning there was room for other healers.





    (Ladder) Damage Class Representation (Graph)



    This is comparing damage dealer class representation. For Druids, I took the entire Druid representation and took away the amount of Resto Druids. This leaves Balance and Feral counted as one class. Warriors are still towering above everyone else, with a 2% jump in representation from the first week of the season. Mages and Warlocks have increased pretty impressively, while DKs and Shadow seem to be the biggest drops.





    (Ladder) Damage Spec Representation (Graph)



    This graph compares all the DPS specs which have more than 0 players on the ladder. For specs like Arcane, Demonology, Combat and Frost there were no players on ladder.





    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------2200+ Representation------------------------------------------------
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    (2200+) Overall Class Representation
    This is all classes with all specs included. There were a total of 714 characters listed above 2200. The format is as followed: The current amount of each class on the ladder above 2200, followed by the amount of each class for the entire ladder, and finally the percentage difference. Obviously each class will have less above 2200 than on the entire ladder, but classes with percentages closer to -0% have a higher density of representation above 2200 than they do on the entire ladder.

     Death Knight - 36 (57) -37%
     Druid - 54 (78) -31%
     Hunter - 52 (81) -36%
     Mage - 72 (103) -30%
     Monk - 13 (18) -28%
     Paladin - 48 (66) -28%
     Priest - 96 (141) -32%
     Rogue - 30 (35) -15%
     Shaman - 134 (176) -24%
     Warlock - 58 (78) -26%
     Warrior -121 (171) -30%

    Found here: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/leaderboards/3v3 (I manually counted people above 2200).





    (2200+) Class Representation (Graph)








    (2200+) Healer Representation (Graph)



    The difference between the representation of healers on the entire ladder and above 2200:-
     Druid: -6%
     Monk: +42%
     Paladin: -1%
     Disc Priest: +14%
     Holy Priest: -5%
     Shaman: +4%

    Don't read too much into this. The classes with positive percentages are more densely represented above 2200 than on the entire ladder, the main point is to show the Shaman, Druid and Holy Priest figures - as Mistweaver and Disc are skewed being that there is so few on the entire ladder.





    (2200+) Damage Class Representation (Graph)








    (2200+) Damage Spec Representation (Graph)







    That's it for now, thankfully this didn't take too long because the graphs from the previous time I did this still work. All I had to do was get the numbers for each class and the graphs automatically update. There's not a lot to be taken away from all this information (and there is a lot here, so props if you got to here), but I'll hope that this 'up to date' information helps with more balance discussions.
    Last edited by Snuggli; 2013-10-20 at 05:58 PM.

  2. #2
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    A good post as always. The drop in death knights and priests was a bit bigger then I expected but I can't say I'm too surprised with any of these numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snuggli View Post
    As I said before, this thread is being created to spark constructive discussion about class balance and the changes 5.5 might bring. I don't want to hand out infractions because people start flaming and trolling people who play x class or spec.
    But you won't have to, I'll do that for you.

  3. #3
    no surprises there on the damage classes..... warrior and mage delight as usual (shame I don't have either ;p)
    the disc priest situation is a bit shocking though for me, being a healy priest like. THE priest healer pvp spec is no longer of any use in PvP ?? even ive gone holy and yea its far superior to disc.. such a shame.

    Monk representation is the biggest shock there though.. also, whats up with paladins.... never expected to see so little palas about/..

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicola View Post
    A good post as always. The drop in death knights and priests was a bit bigger then I expected but I can't say I'm too surprised with any of these numbers.
    Yeah, it's precisely how I felt. The jump in Rogues was a little bigger than I thought, but everything else was exactly like I thought it'd be.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nicola View Post
    But you won't have to, I'll do that for you.
    Good cop, bad cop!

  5. #5
    Well done once again

    It's interesting when seeing these charts, though I must say it's somewhat tricky since there are more of the less represented classes within the top 50 than some of the more popular ones ( of course I'm not stating this for all classes , some ).

  6. #6
    That's an awesome thread. Thanks!

    Now those statistics can show really how and what is unbalanced ;-)


    @Meh at rets...
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  7. #7
    I gave up on my mw monk, after 50 games or so. Oooh well

  8. #8
    So much for "Gear will fix it". Basically, it's warrior or GTFO.

    Notice, how the dps specs from the "hybrid" classes are not competitive (moonkin, Feral, ret, enh, ele, WW, shadow), while most of their healer specs are in fact competitive. At the same time, the "classic" PvP specs are very competitive (with rogues being an exception - they are really low compared to normal).

    So, we're still at "You Hybrid? Go heal!" and "You warrior? You hero!".
    Last edited by Whitepaw; 2013-10-21 at 12:58 PM.

  9. #9
    Wow, now i feel like an idiot if i can't hit 2.2k on my warrior...

    Kinda shocked on the reps of rets, and i thought rets were going to be strong melee.

  10. #10
    I can speak from a DK perspective on why they have dropped.

    It has to do with mainly that the only DK spec that functions in arena is unholy and unholy relies so very little on actual weapon damage that it is not a terrible loss to even go dual wield just for the extra runeforge. (our damage is diseases (no weapon dmg), necrotic (AP only, weapon damage part is useless), pet (no weapon damage) and death coils (no weapon damage). So there would not be any increase in damage done by a DK because of a weapon. On top of that DK has always had very poor survivability so as warriors gear up they still do massive damage and while DKs get a 20% "shield wall" warriors get a 40% shield wall that no longer reduces their damage output.

    Warriors also are able to cleave like a DK because of the massive deep wounds buff. Warriors have better defenses, better grip (by that I mean the ability to stick to target), better peeling for teammates, better CDs to stack with other classes, better get away quickly moves, etc.

    Basically why bring a DK when you can bring a warrior right now.

  11. #11
    cool, nice job! Personally I don't see any surprises and the data supports my overall impression of the class/spec representation in arena.

    I would say that this season is not awfully imbalanced, although I play a lock and get tunneled all the time (especially by melees) but I've seen much worse. At least this season is playable.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Kinda shocked on the reps of rets, and i thought rets were going to be strong melee.
    It's not that they're bad, just no point in taking one instead of war. Wars have too much of everything leaving ret no niche.

    P.S. Actively playing WW monk and for me it's no surprise that their representation is almost non-existant. Lack of passive mitigation, paralysis on same DR as sheep, serious ramp up time. Active mitigation is fine, but touch of karma can be bursted through in seconds when you face 2 high burst classes, rest is a wash (defence tier is complete garbage exept for 90% magic dmg reduction, but that won't help you much against every melee/hunt and their mom tuneling you). Best of the best can have some success with monk but for average joe it's hard to convince hunt to play with him instead of warrior, ench or dk.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    As usual warriors are at the top. Those who say warriors are fine (especially on the bnet forums, holy shit are there a lot of ignorant players there) can now be silenced with actual proof.

    Kind of shocked monks are still this low, though. I reckon WW monks have gotten sort of stronger this patch, but then again, when warriors are can do the same damage as your RSK with an ability they can use 4-5 times in a row, lol. I have kind of noticed though that, even though WW monks have A LOT of ways to peel a warrior, when warriors are doing a lot of damage, WW monks kind of become weaker. Same as rogues because we've no passive damage reduction (besides feint for rogues).

  14. #14
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emfg View Post
    As usual warriors are at the top. Those who say warriors are fine (especially on the bnet forums, holy shit are there a lot of ignorant players there) can now be silenced with actual proof.

    Kind of shocked monks are still this low, though. I reckon WW monks have gotten sort of stronger this patch, but then again, when warriors are can do the same damage as your RSK with an ability they can use 4-5 times in a row, lol. I have kind of noticed though that, even though WW monks have A LOT of ways to peel a warrior, when warriors are doing a lot of damage, WW monks kind of become weaker. Same as rogues because we've no passive damage reduction (besides feint for rogues).
    Its indeed pointless arguing that warriors arent overpowered. There are still insanely many people defending warriors to their last breath.
    A lot of ignorant people indeed. These stats confirms the experience ive had in arenas so far.

    TLDR: Go warrior for success in pvp!
    Epic!

  15. #15
    Dreadlord Adlian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrean View Post
    I can speak from a DK perspective on why they have dropped.

    It has to do with mainly that the only DK spec that functions in arena is unholy and unholy relies so very little on actual weapon damage that it is not a terrible loss to even go dual wield just for the extra runeforge. (our damage is diseases (no weapon dmg), necrotic (AP only, weapon damage part is useless), pet (no weapon damage) and death coils (no weapon damage). So there would not be any increase in damage done by a DK because of a weapon. On top of that DK has always had very poor survivability so as warriors gear up they still do massive damage and while DKs get a 20% "shield wall" warriors get a 40% shield wall that no longer reduces their damage output.

    Warriors also are able to cleave like a DK because of the massive deep wounds buff. Warriors have better defenses, better grip (by that I mean the ability to stick to target), better peeling for teammates, better CDs to stack with other classes, better get away quickly moves, etc.

    Basically why bring a DK when you can bring a warrior right now.
    Sadly but true. At the moment warrs are the universal melee dps and blizzard are blind once again

  16. #16
    Dreadlord joepesci's Avatar
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    Not so important, but here are the 2v2 statistics:
    - only two categories, healers and all others (healers are the ones with "++")
    - US and EU ladder



    Does anyone know how to automatically color bars in dependence of a cell value in excel?
    For example: value of a specific cell = DKN, then the bar color should be = #C41F3B
    Last edited by joepesci; 2013-10-22 at 04:15 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by zwaffelinho View Post
    I gave up on my mw monk, after 50 games or so. Oooh well
    Did the same................

    I play SP and was quiet happy to see such a large representation of priests until i scrolled down where its split to healer and dps spec..ahhhhh
    Last edited by PPN; 2013-10-22 at 06:12 PM.

  18. #18
    Dreadlord ipoststuff's Avatar
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    Worst healer and worst dps. And people say paladins whine too much.

  19. #19
    Never expected resto shamans so popular
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  20. #20
    Speaking as someone that plays a Warrior, looks like it's about time for a Warrior nerf, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoldierr View Post
    Never expected resto shamans so popular
    Same, agree with this. I seem to have the most trouble with Priests, and generally more problems with RDruids than Shaman.

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