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  1. #21
    While it's true that a staff elementalist is more of a support weapon, you can still dish out some really nice damage with it. So I don't think the phrase of "you are going to have a hard time" is particularly accurate.

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vongimi View Post
    Hey you mention that to play an elementalist like a "back-line artillery piece" you are going to have a hard time. Is there any profession that CAN work like a back-line ranged damage dealer? When I first picked up the game when it first came out I went engineer so I could use the rifle and attack from a range. But I quickly learned that the rifle engineer is not really that long range if you wan't to deal maximum damage... its actually quite short range. Hell it would fit better as a shotgun class (if there was such a weapon in game). But I WANT to fight at a range. I want to be able to dish out damage in a WvW setting where melee typically doesn't get much use in large fights besides the charge after a gate falls (I also leveled a warrior, and my time in WvW consisted of watching the ranged duke it out until I could charge in, than maybe exploding a player before dying). I thought an elementalist was that class, but according to this it is not. What would people suggest?
    You absolutely can with staff elementalist, but you got to know your stuff. In fact, skilled elementalists are one of the most desired classes for large scale WvW.

    I'll leave this here for you to read:
    http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/c...mentalist_not/
    Morpheus: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    While it's true that a staff elementalist is more of a support weapon, you can still dish out some really nice damage with it. So I don't think the phrase of "you are going to have a hard time" is particularly accurate.
    I was under the impression staff ele was the ultimate high damage glass cannon (PvE-wise). S/D feels a lot more support-ish to me.

  4. #24
    Depends what you call support. S/D gives lots of power (and fury if need be) which is the "best" support for PvE. Staff gives, swiftness, stuns, water fields,... so they have a bigger arsenal of support but for PvE less useful.

    That being said, staff ele is quite ridiculous DPS wise (lava font, yo) but the problem is that it doesn't give 18stacks of might (at best 6) so while you do more DPS than LH, your team does less DPS.

    If you want ultimate GC you're looking at thief since they have the least amount of outs. What I mean with outs are skills/mechanics that help you survive/heal. While stealth is strong, it doesn't really do anything since damage is mostly AoE. Eles have burning retreat, healing rain, geyser, gust, static field, magnetic aura, shock wave.
    People who claim that ele are the squishiest/hardest class to play haven't learned the class yet.

    For long range nuking I'd just equip a rifle and go with the OHK build, it's single target though which makes tagging hard.
    In most cases, I understand the other side's viewpoint and how they came to it, but cannot tolerate their stubbornness to not see mine (the right one).

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    That being said, staff ele is quite ridiculous DPS wise (lava font, yo) but the problem is that it doesn't give 18stacks of might (at best 6) so while you do more DPS than LH, your team does less DPS.
    Random question, but is there a cap on how many benefit from area might and such? Or just anyone in the area.

    If you want ultimate GC you're looking at thief since they have the least amount of outs. What I mean with outs are skills/mechanics that help you survive/heal. While stealth is strong, it doesn't really do anything since damage is mostly AoE.
    Granted, I play thief double dagger/ double pistol because it's fun, but double dagger has the benefit/drawback of a lot of dodging, but it's all tied to initiative still. Situational, certainly, but can be quite fun.

    Eles have burning retreat, healing rain, geyser, gust, static field, magnetic aura, shock wave.
    People who claim that ele are the squishiest/hardest class to play haven't learned the class yet.
    I'm not sure they're "hardest", but that does sort of tie into "haven't learned the class", doesn't it?
    I think "haven't learned the game enough yet" would be closer to the problems with Elementalist in early play. They are a tough first class on which to learn the game, especially coming from other games with preconceived notions of mage/elementalist and how they should play.

  6. #26
    Boons are limited to 5. PC's get priority, so let's say you have a ranger with a pet and 4others, everyone will benefit but not the pet. Same with other NPC's.

    Well a D/D backstab thief only has Death Blossom which doesn't help once you get hit. You shouldn't be spamming it. If you use it wrong you're probably dead afterwards, the ele can go water heal up and keep going if he fails at burning retreat.

    There's a big difference with difficult to play and difficult to learn. The first step is harder for an ele than a warrior but once you're on that step there are far fewer steps to take as an ele than for a warrior (when trying to maximise DPS)

    TLDR; imagine a stairway, while the first step is higher for the ele the stairs are higher for warrior.
    Last edited by Meledelion; 2014-01-26 at 05:07 PM.
    In most cases, I understand the other side's viewpoint and how they came to it, but cannot tolerate their stubbornness to not see mine (the right one).

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    Boons are limited to 5. PC's get priority, so let's say you have a ranger with a pet and 4others, everyone will benefit but not the pet. Same with other NPC's.
    Thanks, I thought of the 5 limit but then recalled the invisibility fields in Wv which cloak everyone, so wasn't sure.

    Well a D/D backstab thief only has Death Blossom which doesn't help once you get hit. You shouldn't be spamming it. If you use it wrong you're probably dead afterwards, the ele can go water heal up and keep going if he fails at burning retreat.
    While it can be fun to spam it when the dodge-daily is up, I meant that it's got use as an offensive dodge, as well as another dodge if endurance is low. Same with Roll For Initiative, it's another dodge that does something. Elementalist does have more versatility overall, certainly.

  8. #28
    Awesome thread!

    As a mesmer, I really don't understand the difficulty people have leveling them. It was my first toon and I had absolutely no issues. In fact I found it easier to level than other classes. For the shear fact that it is extremely easy to avoid attacks and run away if need be.

    You can level with pretty much any weapon combo, some are better than others. I used GS/staff to be able to pull multiple mobs stay alive and do great dmg. sword sword is very nice as well. Those were probably my favorites.

    I think the mesmer is a very rewarding class, and very... involved. You need good reflexes and you really need to know other classes and what they're capable of, but I guess you can really say that about anybody =).
    "Grammar is important. Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse & helping your uncle jack off a horse."

  9. #29
    I am Murloc! Xuvial's Avatar
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    You can remove the "mobility" part from Elementalists. Ride The Lightning got mega-nerfed to oblivion several months ago, and 1 air swiftness ability on a ridiculous cooldown (or Air Signet) doesn't really doesn't count as mobility.
    Thieves, Mesmers, Engineers and even Rangers have superior mobility...oh and Warrior has more mobility than every other class combined.



    Warriors = Sonic the fucking hedgehog.

  10. #30
    I really don't agree on the elementalist part and especially on the "terrible straight fight" and the "very Squishy". I can "tank" veterans and champions with my Ele that not even my guardian can...Trait on water and arcana and go for Touchness/Precision/Power gear(Knight). Use your Lighting Hammer and switch mostly between Earth and Water attunement for the Protection buff and the regen...Evasive arcana to clear conditions with dodges, e.t.c. When out of charges of the Hammer, use water abilities for chil/heal and fire for combos - might stacking.

    The class I find very Squishy is the thief or maybe I did not found the correct build yet or I am terrible at mobility/dodging..

    On the rest I agree and btw Great article and very helpful

    Quote Originally Posted by Buxton McGraff View Post
    The damage rotation involved spamming 1 (or turning on auto attack and doing nothing) while waiting for the cooldown on the channeled ability.
    the thing is that GW2 does not have your typical MMO rotation. Yes, doing damage is usually auto-attack with 1 or 2 more buttons but no one is expecting to do just damage...the other abilities you have are situational and when I say situational, I don't mean you use them once every 5 min..you need to do excessive usage of your abilities to support your group and yourself. But thing is, there is no rotation..forget about that, just help your group as much as you can while auto-attacking and stay alive.
    Last edited by papajohn4; 2014-01-29 at 02:39 PM.
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  11. #31
    I am Murloc! Xuvial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    I really don't agree on the elementalist part and especially on the "terrible straight fight" and the "very Squishy". I can "tank" veterans and champions with my Ele that not even my guardian can...Trait on water and arcana and go for Touchness/Precision/Power gear(Knight). Use your Lighting Hammer and switch mostly between Earth and Water attunement for the Protection buff and the regen...Evasive arcana to clear conditions with dodges, e.t.c. When out of charges of the Hammer, use water abilities for chil/heal and fire for combos - might stacking.
    There's really no point denying that fact that Ele's have both the lowest health AND lowest armor with no built-in defensive mechanics comparable to what other classes have. Ele's draw 100% of their defense from traits and slot skills.

    With a water + arcana LH build you're putting out not even half the damage of what a full zerk 30/20/10/10/0 staff + frostbow build can do (that too from range).

    With less than 12k health and ~1800 armor even in the best gear (zerker or cavalier), Ele's are just damn squishy and the class most likely to die during dungeon speedruns or Fractals. Unless of course, the player is extremely good...but that's not really an argument.

    First-time GW2 players trying Elementalist quickly learn that a big part of the class involves sitting in downed state. Dancing around playing a piano with the ridiculous double-layered cooldowns and tons of slow/telegraphed abilities....to be less effective than a facerolling Mesmer or Warrior who is half-AFK.

    Elementalist is just a poorly designed class from ground-up and their core mechanic (attunements) is a massively frustrating to work with. At first I really enjoyed Ele, but later I realized that other classes get the job done better with far less effort.
    Last edited by Xuvial; 2014-01-29 at 05:18 PM.

  12. #32
    No built in defensive mechanics?
    You're talking about staff so here goes:
    Burning retreat, geyser, healing rain, gust, static field, magnetic aura, unsteady ground, shock wave...

    Yup no defenses at all...
    In most cases, I understand the other side's viewpoint and how they came to it, but cannot tolerate their stubbornness to not see mine (the right one).

  13. #33
    I am Murloc! Xuvial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    No built in defensive mechanics?
    You're talking about staff so here goes:
    Burning retreat, geyser, healing rain, gust, static field, magnetic aura, unsteady ground, shock wave...

    Yup no defenses at all...
    Try using it in a fight to live longer. Hint: Highly ineffective.

    This is especially true in PvP, it's common fact that staff Ele's are possibly the worst at staying alive and fighting 1v1. On my Engineer when I see a Staff Ele I immediately think "wooo free kill" and 99% of the time they are.
    Hell by the time they can even CAST a Static Field or Unsteady Ground I've knocked off 30-40% of their health from range, their health/armor is so low that they have no breathing room to cast their slow/telegraphed spells.

    Staff is great in hotjoins and WvW though, I'll give you that - all your survivability comes hiding behind teammates and keeping your fingers crossed that none of the enemies decide to actually attack you (especially Thieves/Mesmers).
    Last edited by Xuvial; 2014-01-29 at 05:28 PM.

  14. #34
    You're going with a flawed premise. Staff eles aren't made to 1v1, they'll lose every single time. They are used to fight mid point with a guard supporting them, preferably nuking from the top out of range. Using static field and unsteady ground are very good ways of keeping the enemy away from you.

    Staff eles rely on Lava font to deal massive damage, they only use MS if they have the time for it but just spamming LF and flame burst already provide shit tons of DPS. Add frost bow to the mix and you have a real PITA on your hands.

    Just because you can't play it (and don't now how to play it apparently) doesn't mean it's bad.

    You're doing the equivalent of making a condi guardian and then saying "lol guard sucks", while you simply don't know how to play guardian.
    In most cases, I understand the other side's viewpoint and how they came to it, but cannot tolerate their stubbornness to not see mine (the right one).

  15. #35
    I'll just say that I feel that I have more survivability on my staff ele than I do my Thief. I have to work harder on my Thief (although I can shut down other players a lot more on my Thief).

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Xuvial View Post
    There's really no point denying that fact that Ele's have both the lowest health AND lowest armor with no built-in defensive mechanics comparable to what other classes have. Ele's draw 100% of their defense from traits and slot skills.

    With a water + arcana LH build you're putting out not even half the damage of what a full zerk 30/20/10/10/0 staff + frostbow build can do (that too from range).

    With less than 12k health and ~1800 armor even in the best gear (zerker or cavalier), Ele's are just damn squishy and the class most likely to die during dungeon speedruns or Fractals. Unless of course, the player is extremely good...but that's not really an argument.

    First-time GW2 players trying Elementalist quickly learn that a big part of the class involves sitting in downed state. Dancing around playing a piano with the ridiculous double-layered cooldowns and tons of slow/telegraphed abilities....to be less effective than a facerolling Mesmer or Warrior who is half-AFK.

    Elementalist is just a poorly designed class from ground-up and their core mechanic (attunements) is a massively frustrating to work with. At first I really enjoyed Ele, but later I realized that other classes get the job done better with far less effort.
    But the point is that no one will go level 1, un-trait and with no skills to fight/do dungeons, so base attributes really aren't so much representative of what a class is or what can do. The reality is that you can build Ele to do heavy damage and be squishy or you can build him to have moderate damage and have great survivability, as it happens for all classes...what class you build full DPS trait and berserker armor and is not Squishy? I didn't understand that the most important think in the game is to do the most damage you can... From my experience of the game (I may be wrong of course) is that there are no "Enrage timers" and what it matters is to stay alive and help your group with boons, CC, e.t.c.

    I think your opinion is biased towards Elementalist...and no you don't need to play piano to play it not put more effort than others..but you can do if you like and this is rewarding and if you can describe Ele with one word is "Potential". There are builds in Ele to play effectively semi-AFK as a warrior, but also builds that you can dance between atunements and ofer great support to your group.

    Anyway, my point is that if a new player read this he will think that if he play elementalist he will be a one-shot prey while is not true. More of the times, if we don't have a guardian, I am the Anchor of the group while others focus on damage.
    Last edited by papajohn4; 2014-01-29 at 09:30 PM.
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  17. #37
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuvial View Post
    There's really no point denying that fact that Ele's have both the lowest health AND lowest armor with no built-in defensive mechanics comparable to what other classes have. Ele's draw 100% of their defense from traits and slot skills.

    With a water + arcana LH build you're putting out not even half the damage of what a full zerk 30/20/10/10/0 staff + frostbow build can do (that too from range).

    With less than 12k health and ~1800 armor even in the best gear (zerker or cavalier), Ele's are just damn squishy and the class most likely to die during dungeon speedruns or Fractals. Unless of course, the player is extremely good...but that's not really an argument.

    First-time GW2 players trying Elementalist quickly learn that a big part of the class involves sitting in downed state. Dancing around playing a piano with the ridiculous double-layered cooldowns and tons of slow/telegraphed abilities....to be less effective than a facerolling Mesmer or Warrior who is half-AFK.

    Elementalist is just a poorly designed class from ground-up and their core mechanic (attunements) is a massively frustrating to work with. At first I really enjoyed Ele, but later I realized that other classes get the job done better with far less effort.

    Obligatory Giganticus Lupicus 17s speed kill by 5 elementalists: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngdn-PjStI8

    (check out that 33k crit on the Wraitlord woooooo!)
    Morpheus: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?

  18. #38
    That's a 45s lupi kill, not 17. The fight starts by one guy triggering it and ferrying it to the wall...
    In most cases, I understand the other side's viewpoint and how they came to it, but cannot tolerate their stubbornness to not see mine (the right one).

  19. #39
    I really don't think FGS #4 spam counts. :P I'm frankly surprised that hasn't been adjusted yet as many people consider it an exploit.

    Funnily enough, I have found 'mastering' thief far more difficult than elementalist. I don't know what it is about thief, but nothing quite works out for me the ways it does for others. Once I learned not to play elementalist like a mage in any other game it wasn't that bad. Thief though, I've basically just given up on for now.
    "I think the more pertinent question is, why aren't you more depressed? Why hasn't this horrible place made you so sad you can hardly breathe? Why? Why? There's got to be something wrong with you."

  20. #40
    An exploit, tsss 200k dmg on a 10s CD is perfectly balanced!
    In most cases, I understand the other side's viewpoint and how they came to it, but cannot tolerate their stubbornness to not see mine (the right one).

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