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  1. #41
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyla View Post
    The strat we are pulling is having a monk tank and a disc priest (dps while healing low dmg) with Kardris, kiting slimes with barrels the whole combat.
    The other 8 people (2 tank, 2 healers, 4 caster dps) stay with Haromm top of the hill. We get more dps uptime in the boss (no need to kill slimes).
    It seems we can handle the foul stream properly by telling the player with it to strafe away and we have plenty of cds for the falling ash (2 devotion, 2 shamy totems, moonkin and shadow priest offheals)

    Do you find any problem in this strat?
    The Kardris tank would have Iron Prison on him the entire time, if it blows up as the boss attacks it could cause issues. If you have enough CDs to ensure he's up shouldn't be a massive problem. It does mean that the Haromm group will get a crap load of Iron Tombs each time, so you'd run out of space a lot quicker. The number of slimes would get pretty high pretty fast if they weren't being killed but with a good kiter would be manageable.

    All in all, viable but the issue you may run into is space - the Haromm group will find it pretty busy with all the tombs filling up the area up top and the Kardris tank will have a large and large add group to kite whilst also being targeted by the Toxic Storms and other things he'd usually avoid. If you swapped them round position wise, the Haromm group could faceroll it down south but the tank kiting up north would run out of space even faster.

    Personally, I wouldn't use the strat if I had the option to do a more standard split (4/6 or 5/5), but I can't think of a reason that would stop you killing the boss using the strat you've suggested Good luck, let me know how it goes.

    (PS: the slimes die in a couple of seconds and the DPS requirement for the boss is super low anyway, the final burn will wipe you if you aren't careful but the enrage itself is a non-event).

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrElusive View Post
    Yes, but that doesn't answer the question though, is he really supposed to target people in melee if there are targets at range?
    The trouble wasn't really that he was targeting me, it was that he was very inconsistent about it. Sometimes he would just drop 2 Tombs, none of which ever went on me, sometimes he would start dropping 3.
    Sorry, I figured that the implication of "Melee can be targeted by tombs" would have been enough! Melee CAN and WILL be targeted by tombs, not necessarily every time, but it's a fully intended mechanic as far as I can tell.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabuzan View Post
    Sorry, I figured that the implication of "Melee can be targeted by tombs" would have been enough! Melee CAN and WILL be targeted by tombs, not necessarily every time, but it's a fully intended mechanic as far as I can tell.
    Oh, I experienced that first hand.
    But like I said, Iron Tomb's behavior was erratic to the point that I question what the intended mechanic actually is.
    The feeling I was getting is that it isn't supposed to hit targets in melee if there are at least two targets at range(much like Lei-Shen's Summon Ball Lightning), but sometimes the range check fail and it decides that a target is at range even though it's in melee.
    Last edited by MrElusive; 2013-10-26 at 04:36 PM.

  3. #43
    Why?

    -With two applicable targets for iron prison, iron prison will be on the tank + healer every time.
    -And will you REALLY get more dps uptime? The slimes have ~500k health, and should die within a couple second of spawning with all ranged. With your monk spamming barrels you lower his dps. To get tombs in the right spot on the hill, you will need to all stack and all move when they spawn.

  4. #44
    The Kardris tank would have Iron Prison on him the entire time, if it blows up as the boss attacks it could cause issues. If you have enough CDs to ensure he's up shouldn't be a massive problem. It does mean that the Haromm group will get a crap load of Iron Tombs each time, so you'd run out of space a lot quicker. The number of slimes would get pretty high pretty fast if they weren't being killed but with a good kiter would be manageable.
    On the first point: Stagger.
    On the second point: 2 tombs either way. The only time we found ourselves getting fewer than 2 tombs was when only 1 person was up there other than the tanks (only the non-tanks would be targeted unless only tanks were there). They would be more erratic, but there wouldn't be any more of them.

    I'd imagine the slimes would be killable after they're grouped up. Their aoe range is smaller than just about any player AoE. I still don't see it being a better idea than normal strats, but it could work.
    Last edited by Braindwen; 2013-10-26 at 05:52 PM.

  5. #45
    Stood in the Fire Winkle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrElusive View Post
    Yes, but that doesn't answer the question though, is he really supposed to target people in melee if there are targets at range?
    The trouble wasn't really that he was targeting me, it was that he was very inconsistent about it. Sometimes he would just drop 2 Tombs, none of which ever went on me, sometimes he would start dropping 3.
    He will only target melee for tombs if the 2 healers are also in melee range.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Winkle View Post
    He will only target melee for tombs if the 2 healers are also in melee range.
    Except for the times when he targets melee anyway, which is why I brought this issue up in the first place.

  7. #47
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braindwen View Post
    On the first point: Stagger.
    On the second point: 2 tombs either way. The only time we found ourselves getting fewer than 2 tombs was when only 1 person was up there other than the tanks (only the non-tanks would be targeted unless only tanks were there). They would be more erratic, but there wouldn't be any more of them.

    I'd imagine the slimes would be killable after they're grouped up. Their aoe range is smaller than just about any player AoE. I still don't see it being a better idea than normal strats, but it could work.
    Stagger is a bit of an exception because it has 100% uptime; it's not an option for any other tanks - does active mitigation work for when the Iron Prison expires? I only ever do Haromm so I'm not sure on that one. If it does, then of course any tank could do it and even if not, they could just use a CD on each one (glyphed Divine Protection would make it a breeze for Paladin for instance) providing they don't need the CDs for anything else.

    With regards to the tombs, on our first pull we had 5 tombs spawn during the initial burn; is that purely a bug?

    Either way, I'm not saying that the strategy isn't doable; I just won't be switching to that with my own raid team any time soon and this guide is describing a different strategy! If you want to use a different method, that's entirely up to you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrElusive View Post
    Except for the times when he targets melee anyway, which is why I brought this issue up in the first place.
    We also had this issue, which was why we dropped our melee for 4 ranged to faceroll it. Is it not intended then??

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    Quote Originally Posted by NesQuek View Post
    Why?

    -With two applicable targets for iron prison, iron prison will be on the tank + healer every time.
    -And will you REALLY get more dps uptime? The slimes have ~500k health, and should die within a couple second of spawning with Tall ranged. With your monk spamming barrels you lower his dps. To get tombs in the right spot on the hill, you will need to all stack and all move when they spawn.
    Totally with you here. Just seems like more hassle when it's worth. Even though things are a bit intense with the Haromm group when using 4/6 split (maybe even easier using 5/5 split!), the Kardris group are totally facerolling it the entire time; I'd far rather be dealing with Toxic Storms and Slimes than Foul Stream at the same time as Falling Ash lands irrespective of any other benefit with the alternate tactic that's been described.

    Regarding the tank DPS loss by kiting, agree here, it's most likely a substantial net DPS loss to have the tank spamming barrels and running around with minimal Kardris DPS time. The maths doesn't stack up on that side imo!

  8. #48
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    hi guys! we downed the boss after 3 trys with that strat, pretty easy. Our comp is a bit special for this boss as we have 2 hands of purity in the haromm group.
    Monk tank and disc priest were able to kite the blobs till the end. Toxic mist wasnt a problem because of the puritys. We stacked always and the foul stream runs out to avoid a lot of tombs. Bloodlust at 20% and we burned it after the third meteroite impacted.

    If you have the right setup, i advice this tactic. You can have melee/ranged dps. You just need a monk tank and 2 pallys in harom group

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyla View Post
    If you have the right setup, i advice this tactic. You can have melee/ranged dps. You just need a monk tank and 2 pallys in harom group
    A discpriest would be handy too. I imagine a resto druid can heal it by rotating barkskin and ironbark, but that leaves the tank to deal with iron prison alone.

    We just 2-healed this tonight with your strat btw Zabuzan. Healing at Haromm was a bit iffy but we managed. Boomkin was upstairs providing a bit of offhealing. We really felt our lack of discpriest on this fight.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabuzan View Post
    We also had this issue, which was why we dropped our melee for 4 ranged to faceroll it. Is it not intended then??
    That's the real problem, I don't know what is intended, and his behaviour makes it hard to determine.
    Like I said upthread, on some tries he would not target melee and only drop one tomb on each of the two healers. On other tries he would always drop one tomb on the melee and one on each healer.
    It just feels very odd.

  11. #51
    Stood in the Fire Winkle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrElusive View Post
    Except for the times when he targets melee anyway, which is why I brought this issue up in the first place.
    I've never seen this occur, i can only assume one of your two healers entered melee range.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Winkle View Post
    I've never seen this occur, i can only assume one of your two healers entered melee range.
    We never had tombs drop in melee range of Haromm when I wasn't there, so no, that does not seem likely.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyla View Post
    hi guys! we downed the boss after 3 trys with that strat, pretty easy. Our comp is a bit special for this boss as we have 2 hands of purity in the haromm group.
    Monk tank and disc priest were able to kite the blobs till the end. Toxic mist wasnt a problem because of the puritys. We stacked always and the foul stream runs out to avoid a lot of tombs. Bloodlust at 20% and we burned it after the third meteroite impacted.

    If you have the right setup, i advice this tactic. You can have melee/ranged dps. You just need a monk tank and 2 pallys in harom group
    Does your guild or other guild using this strat have a youtube video of it?

  14. #54
    We 2 shotted him yesterday: used a 2 heal strat and replaced our 2nd melee with an ele shamny (used to be out resto shaman). Also, we have 2 tanks with 1 holy pally (beacon/hand of purity op) inside the room so that way they get the buff too. And outside we had a disc priest and me (boomie) using Natures Vigil for off-healing (also tranq'd and innervated disc priest on cd). Our ele shammy also did some good off healing through his healing totems... I was also doing a countdown for falling ashes so the group inside the room would be prepared.

  15. #55
    Jesus, Do u really need a guide like this for such a fight? Either u Cheese with 3 tanks or dps the shit out of it meanwhile avoiding incoming damage.
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkovius View Post
    Jesus, Do u really need a guide like this for such a fight? Either u Cheese with 3 tanks or dps the shit out of it meanwhile avoiding incoming damage.
    The guide is probably more necessary than your shitty post. The OP is giving a constructive post to the community, you are just posting crap.

  17. #57
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkovius View Post
    Jesus, Do u really need a guide like this for such a fight? Either u Cheese with 3 tanks or dps the shit out of it meanwhile avoiding incoming damage.
    Most fights can be summarised in a sentence or 2, look at the Fatboss 90 second SoO video guide.

    As you are 14/14HC already, this guide isn't aimed at you, it's aimed at raiders of my own level or less that have gotten to Shamans later in the pull and want to kill it in a few pulls rather than 50 so I've shared the experience I had of the encounter in detail. As you've already killed Garrosh, this thread is definitely not aimed at you and it also won't be helpful to everyone that reads it. It's also not the only strat.

    It has however, helped some people - which was the only thing it's intended to do.

  18. #58
    Just a quick question. About the 40% mark we seem to lose a healer on the top group. How are u rotating cds for ash dmg? Even with devo up it still seems to rock a healer. Top group I'd paly druid healer, paly war tank.

  19. #59
    Get both of your pallys to abuse the hell out of hand of purity.

  20. #60
    can anyone tell me what the cd is on falling ash once it hits the 50% mark? i know it has like a 15 sec landing from the time the icon appears. Im just trying to get a better judge of how i can handle the cds for it for each group. Also the kardris foul geyser, that still is only channeled onto the tank tanking him at that time correct?

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