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  1. #101
    Pretty much any time a tank dies there's a chance they'll reset. No idea why or how to prevent it, but it consistently happens when one or two tanks die.

    Edit: 3/7 is viable as well, we carried a ret pally to get him some gear this week (he just came back to the game) and we didn't know how melee would affect tombs up top so just decided to let him AoE spam on the slimes. Worked out fine.

  2. #102
    We've had a sub million reset before. If a tank dies its highly unlikely you'll get away without a reset unless someone can taunt.

  3. #103
    Stood in the Fire WhoAmiSc's Avatar
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    silly question , perhaps .

    how is a set 10 man team that cannot , and i mean, absolutely cannot get the 3rd tank , supposed to kill this ? o.O

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  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by WhoAmiSc View Post
    silly question , perhaps .

    how is a set 10 man team that cannot , and i mean, absolutely cannot get the 3rd tank , supposed to kill this ? o.O
    Follow the mechanics and stay out of bad. The totems come at percentages and iirc abilities happen roughly every 30 seconds. So when you have 4 totems thats something going on every 15s if you properly coordinate the totem drops with ability timers.

    That's in a perfect world. Do the swaps and everything you do on normal as tanks. The biggest difference is tombs and dealing with a 1 minute debuff. It's rough, but possible.

  5. #105
    Good luck. Midwinter had trouble with it at Blizzcon (though obviously they were going with less than their normal amount of healers and trying for a speed kill). It's going to be very tough.

  6. #106
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    If a 10-man team doesn't have a Druid, DK, Paladin, Monk or Warrior within their DPS or healer squad that could grab a crappy tanking OS, you probably need to look at recruiting one of those classes!

    We still haven't bothered trying to tank them together yet, though we've been 3 tank/5 DPS/2 healing it now, taking only 1 healer up to Haromm rather than 2... 20ilvl increase will do that for you I guess!

    Things fall apart pretty quickly when everyone is in range of both bosses sub 50%, but by pushing the bosses over each of the % totem boundaries at exact times earlier in the fight you could definitely split the abilities up to make them easier to deal with. Obviously if you just nuke you could easily end up with a situation where falling ash comes at the same time as foulstream and the last ticks of the toxic mist dot which is guaranteed death for those affected and probably any nearby raiders as collateral due to panic and poor positioning!

    It's certainly possible not to split them, but I'd advise that it'd be quicker for you to recruit a new player, get some basic tank gear on an offspec or even an alt, than trying to kill the boss this way from scratch. Even in 570+ gear it'd still be a real pain and probably make it the most difficult encounter on 10-man before Siegecrafter... so the step up in difficulty would be ridiculous and I'd even advise just going for Malkorok/Spoils/Thok first (assuming you've done Nazgrim already).

  7. #107
    So last thursday we had our first (short) meeting with Shamans Heroic which resulted into 3 pulls in the last half hour of raiding (Cleared every boss that night on HC since it's out first raiding day in the week). For the persons who are doing the 2/8 Splitup tactic I have a question regarding what to watch out for while leading this fight.

    We had 30 minuts after we cleared the trash up Shamans, so the pulls we did were more to explore the tactic then to actually down it. However we had quite decent tries with the third pull being a 17% wipe, but overall the 2/8 tactic looked really easy. We do the following setup;

    • Disc Priest Healer (Down at Kardriss)
    • Brewmaster Monk Tank (Down at Kardriss)
    • Blood Death Knight Tank (Up at Haromm)
    • Protection Warrior Tank (Up at Haromm)
    • Restoration Shaman Healer (Up at Haromm)
    • Restoration Druid Healer (Up at Haromm)
    • Frost Mage DPS (Up at Haromm)
    • Survival Hunter DPS (Up at Haromm)
    • Destruction Warlock DPS (Up at Haromm)
    • Frost Death Knight DPS (Up at Haromm)

    Now I have the following question;

    1. What should I look out for when dpsing the boss down in ways of mechanics (Lining up Tombs, Falling Ash, Foul Stream)
    2. What's the best way to avoid (above) abilites line up to quick after each other?
    3. How exacly/what's the best solution to avoid Foul Stream as melee?
    4. Where do you want to use raid cooldows such as Tranq/Tree/Healing Totem etc?

    Overall the bottom part was really easy as far as I heared from the disc priest and monk downstairs and the tombs were also stacked up quite nice in a row. We had some trouble tho with the above question which any advice I could get, really could help us out.
    Last edited by Spartex; 2014-01-18 at 05:49 PM.
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  8. #108
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    We do the 2/8 strategy and find it MUCH easier. We have a bear and r-druid below and they both use typhoon when appropriate. The r-druid uses symbiosis to get ice block if he needs it for a falling ash / prison when they come simultaneously (since the bear basically can self heal for long stretches with no problem).

    Everyone else goes up top, even ranged. The ranged start that portion along with healers at the bottom of the hill (near the construction equipment / siege machines, etc), with the healers since there isn't any LOS issues. This means the first several sets of tombs are totally out of the way later. Once the foul streams start, all ranged go up top and the tanks push the boss back into the corner for good wall placement. Last 25% everyone spreads back down off the hill and tanks can put walls pretty much wherever they want.

    Honestly, as long as the ranged don't derp the foul streams over each other ... it's nearly patchwerk faceroll.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartex View Post
    1. What should I look out for when dpsing the boss down in ways of mechanics (Lining up Tombs, Falling Ash, Foul Stream)
    2. What's the best way to avoid (above) abilites line up to quick after each other?
    3. How exacly/what's the best solution to avoid Foul Stream as melee?
    4. Where do you want to use raid cooldows such as Tranq/Tree/Healing Totem etc?

    Overall the bottom part was really easy as far as I heared from the disc priest and monk downstairs and the tombs were also stacked up quite nice in a row. We had some trouble tho with the above question which any advice I could get, really could help us out.
    1) It's like this. At 50% the falling ash cast starts and its a 15 second cast before the meteor hits and the damage arrives. You want to hit 50% with 30 sec / 1 min on an iron prison debuff. This way you separate falling ash and iron prison by 15 seconds (best case scenario). Worst case is you hit 50% with iron prison on 15 seconds then the damage that does lines up perfectly with iron prison. This means you take the 400k hit from falling ash along with the 100% health (less CD's less absorbs) from iron prison. I guess its possible to do it with shit timings but its about as far from ideal as its possible to get.
    2) Covered in 1.
    3) The person with foul stream stands still and the others move away from it. Really its an execution fight, even if you lose a couple of seconds dps its not a tight enrage. If you have high stacks of toxic mist and you get targeted by foul stream then pop your biggest baddest defensive. If you have high stacks of toxic mist and foul stream doesn't target you make damn sure you get out of the way.
    4) I'd imagine at or around each falling ash IF the raid isn't in a good state. They need to be topped before each one hits. You will likely get a few falling ashes so save the bigger CD's for later. Blood DK's death coil absorbs are pretty OP up top btw and as I understand it he can throw them on others - esp those with the toxic mist debuff. Downstairs should be easyish - spirit shell when its off CD and power word shield / inner focus with greater heal will create a guaranteed absorb. Barrier as a standby.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartex View Post
    So last thursday we had our first (short) meeting with Shamans Heroic which resulted into 3 pulls in the last half hour of raiding (Cleared every boss that night on HC since it's out first raiding day in the week). For the persons who are doing the 2/8 Splitup tactic I have a question regarding what to watch out for while leading this fight.

    We had 30 minuts after we cleared the trash up Shamans, so the pulls we did were more to explore the tactic then to actually down it. However we had quite decent tries with the third pull being a 17% wipe, but overall the 2/8 tactic looked really easy. We do the following setup;

    • Disc Priest Healer (Down at Kardriss)
    • Brewmaster Monk Tank (Down at Kardriss)
    • Blood Death Knight Tank (Up at Haromm)
    • Protection Warrior Tank (Up at Haromm)
    • Restoration Shaman Healer (Up at Haromm)
    • Restoration Druid Healer (Up at Haromm)
    • Frost Mage DPS (Up at Haromm)
    • Survival Hunter DPS (Up at Haromm)
    • Destruction Warlock DPS (Up at Haromm)
    • Frost Death Knight DPS (Up at Haromm)

    Now I have the following question;

    1. What should I look out for when dpsing the boss down in ways of mechanics (Lining up Tombs, Falling Ash, Foul Stream)
    2. What's the best way to avoid (above) abilites line up to quick after each other?
    3. How exacly/what's the best solution to avoid Foul Stream as melee?
    4. Where do you want to use raid cooldows such as Tranq/Tree/Healing Totem etc?

    Overall the bottom part was really easy as far as I heared from the disc priest and monk downstairs and the tombs were also stacked up quite nice in a row. We had some trouble tho with the above question which any advice I could get, really could help us out.
    What you should do is make the boss place totems when you desire. Take the boss to 68%, tell your raid to stop ALL dmg and nuke it 5 sec before the tombs. You should get tombs and 5s after foul stream. Do the same at 50%, nuke just before the tombs and you will have: Tombs 5s Foul stream 10s ash explosion dmg 15s tombs again.

    Use cds for empowered ash explosions. you should get only 3-4
    Last edited by Kotmia; 2014-01-19 at 06:25 PM.

  11. #111
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
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    We've been doing this for the 3rd week with 4/6 split but it causing us troubles and many wipes every time.
    Could the 8/2 (Haromm-up-8 | Kardris-down-2) tact work with a non-Disc healer (paladin, druid, shaman, monk) and which should be the optimal tank for Kardris between a paladin and a druid?
    Last edited by Keosen; 2014-02-03 at 12:19 PM.

  12. #112
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Due do various issues we haven't gotten past shamans, however 2-8 split works fine (none related to 2 people on Kadris)

    We have prot warri + resto druid down. Druid has Iron Bark and warri his own CD. But I would say that have prot paladin down with Kadris. Cause guarduian will run into same issues as our warrior does with having not enough rage generation due to being out of range from boss (kiting slimes, running away from the storms and stuff)
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Keosen View Post
    We've been doing this for the 3rd week with 4/6 split but it causing us troubles and many wipes every time.
    Could the 8/2 (Haromm-up-8 | Kardris-down-2) tact work with a non-Disc healer (paladin, druid, shaman, monk) and which should be the optimal tank for Kardris between a paladin and a druid?
    Paladin healers work fine downstairs. If you have more than 2 people downstairs you can take clemency. This lets you BoP the debuff off twice, sac it twice (30% external) and this is on top of the mastery absorbs on topped off people. We personally have done it with a DK and bear downstairs. We have palas available but palas are better used upstairs imo because of their toolset.

  14. #114
    When you have 2 and 8.... does it have to be a Brewmaster tank below? We use a Prot pally down with a Holy Pally healer with 4 ranged dps, But I'd like to try to 2/8.... do you kite adds or kill them some how?

  15. #115
    2/8... Don't feel there is any tank/healer preference. If you got a blood dk dude go 1/9 lol. A blood dk is all you need to flirt with wavebinder. Really the most funny thing I've ever had in this patch, so hilarious XD Goes really fast with 2 heal, and if your healer is freaking geared you can even 1 heal and Patchwerk it down in like 4 min?
    Last edited by jasonleekungfu; 2014-02-18 at 04:36 PM.

  16. #116
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Are there any feasible 2 tank raid placement tips out there? In all ways I look at it, we will not get a third tank for this fight (end of expansion boredom and other stuff). We have given couple of goes with 2 tanks. Got to 40ish % I think. The problem was by that point that there was so many tornadoes and whirlies on the ground between tanks and raid at we just got separated and people ran out of room.

    On normal version we just have Haromm at Garrosh's house's entrance and Kadris at AH and just tankswap on need, while raid stays in the middleish area. On heroic only issue doing like that will be the Tombs... In all the angels I've looked at that fight and from those few pulls we made with 2 tanks it, I couldn't find a decent way to for raid to stack.

    I just don't see the "normal move 2 shamans together" tactic being the best solution nor our normal tactic described above. Maybe can someone point me to a video or something (I couldn't find any (failed at youtube search I guess)) about 2 tanking.

    On top of that should we take 2 or 3 healers (if we have ofc extra DPS) if we go with 2 tanks?
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  17. #117
    If you don't have 3 tanks then the easiest way to do it is to move on to Nazgrim. It may sound trite but I'm actually being serious :P

  18. #118
    If you can't get a 3rd tank, skip them and gear up an alt meanwhile (dont need more than 540 or so). 1 healer (disc, a lot harder with no absorbs, but not impossible), 1 tank and 6 dps downstairs. 2 tanks and 1 healer upstairs, if he's well geared (560 druid/shaman seems fairly easy) to solo it, else just replace a dps with another healer. Having extra dps doesnt make a huge difference, just makes it less stressful past 20%.

    And about having both tanks downstairs, I don't see how you'll outheal the toxic debuff, which hits for quite a lot along with falling ash, tornados and prison.

  19. #119
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    I know how to handle it with 3 tanks and 3 healers. We've had several goes on them like that before we got roster issues. So I am not looking advice how to 3 tank it.

    You need to time the debuffs and other things just when they first appear and then it is relatively simple... Even if we skip Shamans, I am still interested in 2-tank option for this, is anyone tried it and recorded it ?
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  20. #120
    It's possible technically, but much much harder. If I remember correctly, there was a race on Blizzcon and ppl told me both teams tried to 2 tank to get it faster, and they both failed for a couple of times, and they were top guilds who cleared heroic fairly early. That's basically how hard it will be if you 2 tank. I would rather take 2 less healers than 1 less tank if I were them. Or in your case, I would rather take a 520-530 ilvl alt tank than a 570-580 ilvl dps.

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