4 Set

[Deleted]

Just wondering, should we be going for the 4-set bonus for Affliction / Destruction? or Should we just go for 2 set and off-pieces?
I'm unable to find the BiS for both, only suggestions what could be BiS.

[evertonbelmontt]

Just wondering, should we be going for the 4-set bonus for Affliction / Destruction? or Should we just go for 2 set and off-pieces?
I'm unable to find the BiS for both, only suggestions what could be BiS.

4-set for destro is great, it gives you a 33% average uptime buff from 15% crit.
Afflic is "meh".
Demon is must have.

If you want to play destro/demo a lot, it's worth getting it.

[Deleted]

4 pc setbonus for both tbh, for afflic the 2pc is mandatory and the 4pc is decent giving you a few more haunts each encounter where as for destro the 2pc setbonus is crap for single target and only really useful for aoe in the sense that you'll have very low uptime on it on single target but an ok'ish uptime on aoe and the 4pc setbonus gives you a somewhat steady uptime as you'll get the proc every time you get an ember with an icd of 10 sec.

the notion of a BiS list is really a wrong idea as your BiS list might change for each encounter, so there really isnt a definate end all and be all BiS list that will give you max performance on all encounters but you could just use ask mr. robot which you can use to make a gear list.

[Deleted]

a question, would a helm(wf) from imerssus be worth changing to a lfr head just to gain the 4 set for destru?

[Baconeggcheese]

a question, would a helm(wf) from imerssus be worth changing to a lfr head just to gain the 4 set for destru?

I can't say for hard fact, but my knee-jerk is no. LFR is what 528? you're looking at a 31 ilvl difference there which is gonna be something like 600 passive int and 8-900 secondaries? Doesn't sound worth to me but I haven't done any napkin math.

[Deleted]

weird thought 15% crit would weight it up :3

[khalamo]

Its 15% crit with 33% maximum possible uptime. So it is <5% crit avg. If I were you I would just wait for some normal/heroic tier to drop. But I guess the 4set would be an increase in dps.

5% more crit would give you 5% more dps (assuming you deal 100% more dmg on crit and ignoring increased ember generation). Right now I am dealing around 300-320k dps so that would be 15k dps.

600 int and 900x2 secondary stats would be around 600*6 + 1800*5 = 12600dps.

Minimal difference and in longer run its better to upg and invest into heroic helm than in LFR one

[ZaneBusby]

Its 15% crit with 33% maximum possible uptime.

What. No. 50% maximum uptime. 5 second duration on a 10 second ICD. That means in a 100% ideal situation it would be up 5s, down 5s, up 5s, down 5s, etc. 40% uptime is closer to around average on a good day, 33% is pretty bad uptime AFAIK.

[Baconeggcheese]

Yeah I've been seeing like.... 37%ish uptime on average.

[Nerfarien]

The 4 piece for Destro is a disgusting beast, and is mandatory in every situations. It can increase your damage ridiculously if timed right with your other spells, or in AoE situations with you 2 piece set.

[Deleted]

Its 15% crit with 33% maximum possible uptime. So it is <5% crit avg. If I were you I would just wait for some normal/heroic tier to drop. But I guess the 4set would be an increase in dps.

5% more crit would give you 5% more dps

I'm not sure it's a good idea to compare 15% crit for 5s with 10s cd, with 5% crit avg.
All is CB management. Cast CB with 5% crit avg <Cast CB with 15% crit if it is well managed on proc.

In any case 4P is clearly op

[khalamo]

I think the 10 sec icd pops as soon as buff drops. My uptimes are
Shamans: 31.7%
General: 29.9%
Malkorok: 34.1%
Spoils: 29.5%
Siege: 30.6%
Paragons: 32.6%
Garrosh: 30.7%

I dont understand what happened on malkorok but its usually lower than 33%. Also the 5% crit was simplification.

My point was I wouldnt bother with flex/lfr item for 4set. Especially if I was in a guild thats doing heroic progress since you have access to normal/heroic versions and valor points are always nice

[Daedelus]

4pc for Demo is a little bit OP?

On Garrosh I never use chaos wave but after getting 4pc I got 47 chaos waves proccing on a kill, accounting for 14.9% of overall damage, and that's not counting free HoGs

[phogel]

I currently raid 25n so Warforged and drops from Ordos are very possible for me. I'm seeing alot of conflicting evidence that my 4 piece may not be bis for me until HC's? Anyone know if this may be true or not.....if it is what 4 of the pieces would anyone suggest. I already have the warforged helm from Immerseus and the shoulders from Ordos so that's two slots I'm losing that I'm just not sure that the tier pieces would be better in.

[cryptic662]

I currently raid 25n and getting drops are not an issue (we will have Siege on farm as of this week) but from looking around on the net I'm seeing alot of conflicting things that my 4 piece may not be best for me until we start doing heroics? Anyone able confirm or deny this with a brief explanation by chance.

I'm confused why it would be best for heroics, but not good for you now? That doesn't make much sense.

Do you mean "once I get heroic tier"?

[phogel]

I'm confused why it would be best for heroics, but not good for you now? That doesn't make much sense.

Do you mean "once I get heroic tier"?

Sorry about not getting that across clearly...not enough coffee yet I guess. You are correct I meant to say once I get heroic tier. I just really want to bust out as much damage as possible and I'm seeing on certain sites that alot of the warforged options I can currently get may be better and not worth going with the 4 piece on normal tier.

[Rustjive]

The 4pc for Affliction is not worth it, especially when you factor in fight mechanics.

[ZaneBusby]

I think the 10 sec icd pops as soon as buff drops. My uptimes are

Malkorok: 34.1%

I dont understand what happened on malkorok but its usually lower than 33%. Also the 5% crit was simplification.

My point was I wouldnt bother with flex/lfr item for 4set. Especially if I was in a guild thats doing heroic progress since you have access to normal/heroic versions and valor points are always nice

The fact you had 34.1% uptime on Malkorok speaks for itself. It would be PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to have a higher uptime than 33% if you were correct on your assumption that the "ICD doesn't kick in until the buff wears off", which, by the way, is completely inaccurate. ICD means Internal Cool Down. Every single ICD in the game starts it's timer at the exact moment it procs. Every. Single. One. The ICD is on the 4set is 10 seconds, so again, in an ideal situation (although near impossible), you would have an uptime of 50%. 5s up, 5s down, 5s up, 5s down, etc.

To say you were getting less than 30% uptime just means you either weren't playing well, or you're unfortunate enough to have badly optimised gear which means you're regularly filling embers just before the ICD wears out, meaning the next proc won't be until the next ember fills up, giving you a substantially lower uptime.

To argue that an average of 5%-6% crit over the course of a fight is "worse than normal gear" if you get Flex tier gear is stupid. Anyone who's doing heroic progression wants to max out their gear the best they can. The stat increase on a normal vs. flex piece won't come close to an average of 5% crit. You need 600 crit rating for 1% crit chance. That's 3,000 crit rating that you would need for the normal gear to be better than the 4set bonus. Normal gear would NOT be better than Flex tier 4set.

[cryptic662]

Sorry about not getting that across clearly...not enough coffee yet I guess. You are correct I meant to say once I get heroic tier. I just really want to bust out as much damage as possible and I'm seeing on certain sites that alot of the warforged options I can currently get may be better and not worth going with the 4 piece on normal tier.

If its destro I'd stay with the 4p. I've aquired 2 heroic pieces and when I simmed my character with normal 4p vs 2p with heroic off pieces+warforged pants I simmed 7k higher with the 4p.

[Bonkura]

I currently raid 25n so Warforged and drops from Ordos are very possible for me. I'm seeing alot of conflicting evidence that my 4 piece may not be bis for me until HC's? Anyone know if this may be true or not.....if it is what 4 of the pieces would anyone suggest. I already have the warforged helm from Immerseus and the shoulders from Ordos so that's two slots I'm losing that I'm just not sure that the tier pieces would be better in.

4 set prio should out of all conqueror classes/specs be Ret Pala>Demo Lock>Destro Lock>Shadow Priest/Affli Lock>Holy/Prot Pala>Disc/Holy Priest. If that helps. You should get 4 set eventually so figure it's easier to know the prio.