1. #1
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    [Arena PVP] Dampening

    Hotfixes: Listed By Date

    October 21

    [Requires a realm restart.] The Crowd Chose You has been removed and replaced with a debuff called Dampening.
    [Requires a realm restart.] For Arena matches that last more than 10 minutes, all players in the Arena will begin to receive Dampening.

    Dampening is a stacking debuff applied to all players in the Arena every 10 seconds.
    Each stack of Dampening reduces all healing and damage absorption by 1%.
    If neither team has won after 20 minutes, the Arena match will end in a draw.
    Necrotic Strike's healing absorption is not affected by Dampening.
    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...es-october-21/

    Discussion topics among others:

    Will this favor some comps over others?
    Will Death Knights have an increasing upper hand the longer games go on?
    Will this change the current way people zerg and turtle in arenas?


    What are your thoughts?
    Last edited by MrApple; 2013-10-22 at 12:40 AM.
    Epic!

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by MrApple View Post
    Will Death Knights have an increasing upper hand the longer games go on?
    No. Necrotic Strike is damage to be healed, just like any other attack. There was no reason for them to even consider it being affected by this in the first place.

  3. #3
    As above Necro is just damage, a weird kind that only affects healing (so in a way.. worse than normal damage as if no healing occurs then it's wasted?)

    I wonder for Healer+Dps in 2's however, will healers (*coughs* priest) who can damage to heal well, come out on top?
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  4. #4
    I truely love this change.
    No more burst and turtle with 1shot after TCCY.

    I dont really think this will favor any comp.
    (and yes I also agree necro is unaffected, the absorb is the actual 'dmg' of that spell, so ofc it shouldnt be reduced with healing)

  5. #5
    Fluffy Kitten Ultima's Avatar
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    Unless the players are stalling on purpose, there is no reason an Unholy DK/ Healer team will last for 10 minutes.
    I heal in the Arena
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  6. #6
    Epic! Naztrak's Avatar
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    Looks better than before.
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  7. #7
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straamibuu View Post
    As above Necro is just damage, a weird kind that only affects healing (so in a way.. worse than normal damage as if no healing occurs then it's wasted?)

    I wonder for Healer+Dps in 2's however, will healers (*coughs* priest) who can damage to heal well, come out on top?
    Are you referring to atonement from disc or are you saying that priests in general have great damage output? Neither is viable enought to be a gamechanger imo.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    Looks better than before.
    Indeed. On paper it looks alot better than the "burst n turtle"-buff that is TCCY.
    Lets hope it turns out the way we think it will.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Baphomette View Post
    No. Necrotic Strike is damage to be healed, just like any other attack. There was no reason for them to even consider it being affected by this in the first place.
    Perhaps. Its a valid question tho since they intended to lower the absorb of Necrotic with dampening and then changed their mind
    a few times before they decided to Not let it be affected. Will be interesting to see how it affects gameplay if it does.
    Epic!

  8. #8
    I think he is saying that priests have some spells like solace that heal for 100% of damage dealt and as the game goes on you deal more damage, and thus more healing and are doing double duty of increasing damage output of your team and "beating" the healing reduction.

  9. #9
    You guys (specifically the first few posts) don't seem very informed.


    Boys and Girls, Necro is not damage that needs to be healed, there's no way to mitigate it like damage.

    It's a Healing Absorption that scales exponentially with the Dampening buff, which in turn ALSO increases the uptime of it's casting-time slow portion attached to the debuff, becoming better and better Pressure per Global as the game goes on.


    This doesn't solve the problem of Blood DKs.
    Dampening scales linearly for everyone and NS exponentially, Everyone will become weaker in defense at the same rate (some more than others, alas, Rets) but Bloodtards (Any DK spec, although Frost and Unholy are part of us mortals and may be slain so it's okay) will actually grow stronger in offense as the game goes on, something all the other classes, sans Rogues, can't achieve.

    Help bring this to light so that they remove this fiasco out of the game, a tie is better than an undeserved win.
    Last edited by Veliane; 2013-10-22 at 06:48 PM.

  10. #10
    Necro is damage.

    Why do you feel that blood DKs will do more damage relatively as the fight goes on?

    If my rogue does 200k damage with my physical strikes, that requires 200k healing. If your DK does 200k in necro plus damage, that requires 200k healing. When the debuff is at 50%, then both will require 400k healing.


    The argument about "not being able to mitigate" it doesn't change anything.

    You can't mitigate it ever. EVER. (except when you can: evasion mitigates it well) It's not you get more access to shield wall, or extra deterrence, late in the game. So it's relative power is the same.


    It's always been damage. I have no idea why it was ever considered as something that would be scaled downwards.

  11. #11
    I raise you this, it's pretty simple, if you can't see it you might play Double Blood.


    Dampening at 20% - You use Shield Wall.

    250k Necros = 300k Healing needed to overcome.

    250k Damage = 180k Healing needed to overcome.


    The same number just doubled up. F*cking magnets, how do they work?

  12. #12
    Except necro is delayed damage that actually goes away unless it is either refreshed or taken advantage of to kill the target. Anyone worth their salt will just pillar a DK and let the necros fall off and not have to heal it at all.

    Personally as a DK I would love it if necro was just a flat heal reduction and did actual damage. Like mortal strike. Would cut down on all the uneducated QQ about DKs and their whopping 5% representation in arena and give me something that does direct damage.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Veliane View Post
    I raise you this, it's pretty simple, if you can't see it you might play Double Blood.


    Dampening at 20% - You use Shield Wall.

    250k Necros = 300k Healing needed to overcome.

    250k Damage = 180k Healing needed to overcome.


    The same number just doubled up. F*cking magnets, how do they work?
    You are wildly out of line.


    Dampening at 0%. You use Shield Wall (40% reduction).
    250k Necros = 250k Healing needed to overcome.
    250k Damage = 150k Healing needed to overcome.

    Effect: Necros bypass the DR from Shield Wall (and are balanced around that fact, as it has always been true). For equal values of necro in this example, you'll need 250/150 = 66.7% more healing to heal.

    Dampening at 20%. You use Shield Wall (40% reduction).
    250k Necros = 300k Healing needed to overcome.
    250k Damage = 180k Healing needed to overcome.

    Effect: Necros bypass the DR from Shield Wall (and are balanced aroudn that fact, as it has always been true). For equal values of necro in this example, you'll need 300/180 = 66.7% more healing to heal.




    Looks like necro is damage.




    Because necro is damage. All damage is harder to heal under the effect of a stacking debuff. The fact that cloak of shadows doesn't stop mortal strike, or evasion doesn't stop frost bolt, or shield wall doesn't stop necrotic strike, is 100% not relevant, and maintains the exact same relative power before the healing debuff as after.

  14. #14
    Bro here copy pasted my math and proved me Necrotic can't be mitigated with Damage Reducing cooldowns and it becomes better with dampening.

    But I'm out of line. (why? didn't we do the same shit with the same result?)

    *shakes it off*

    Very odd, I thought if something hurts and, ironically, with say.. some Pain Suppression was to hurt less, it would be Damage.

    And something that haunts you over for a finite amount of time before fading, with negative effects, that doesn't hurt and you can't get it to 'hurt less' was more of a ward, dark spell, debuff, a curse.. you know, something abstract.


    Oh well. Heals and absorbs are the same, because it makes you less deadeneded when the hurt comes and OMG NECROTIC SPAM GOD HELP GET IT OFF ME.


    Sorry.
    Let's call it IMPOSSIBRU TO MITIGATE DAMAGE. To please my friend above, since it is ITMD.



    Gentlemen, IMPOSSIBRU TO MITIGATE DAMAGE does more damage than Regular Damage with Dampening! Help bring this to light so that they remove this fiasco, a tie is better than an undeserved win!

  15. #15
    Numbers for illustration:

    Dampening at 0%

    100k Oblit hit = 100k healing required
    50k NS hit + 50k NS debuff = 100k healing required

    Dampening at 5%

    100k Oblit hit = 105k healing required
    50k NS hit + 50k NS debuff = 105k healing required

    If you can't see this, I can't help you. Doesn't matter though, because the devs understand.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Baphomette View Post
    Numbers for illustration:

    Dampening at 0%

    100k Oblit hit = 100k healing required
    50k NS hit + 50k NS debuff = 100k healing required

    Dampening at 5%

    100k Oblit hit = 105k healing required
    50k NS hit + 50k NS debuff = 105k healing required

    If you can't see this, I can't help you. Doesn't matter though, because the devs understand.

    I thought that breaking to percentages would help him, but maybe this will.


    The simple fact is, dampening OF COURSE makes it harder to heal through necrotics. But, at the EXACT SAME RATE it makes it harder to heal through ANYTHING. Shield wall is a carefully chosen example- of course shield wall doesn't stop necro. But your shield walling guy doesn't illustrate anything about dampening- just the unsurprising fact that shield wall doesn't help you with necros. It does help you with frostbolt. Meanwhile, die by the sword or evasion do nothing versus frostbolts, but turn off necros.


    Dampening, however, is the same. Because frost bolt, killing spree, and necro, are all the same thing: damage. And dampening effects them equally. DKs won't suddenly gain pressure versus warriors.

  17. #17
    Another band aid fix and another reason why pvp in this game isn't taken seriously.

    The only way it's ever going to get balanced is to separate pve and pvp. Until then, it's just all these stupid duct tape fixes like battle fatigue, baseline resil, crowd chose you, etc.

    For a billion dollar company, they are horrible with how they have been handling pvp in the lifetime of the game.

  18. #18
    I'm just going to leave this here so that the NS being op due to dampening debate can maybe come to an end.

    http://pvp-live.com/necrotic-strike-...ing-explained/
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    If you bathe your motherboard in the blood of 20 chickens during the first full moon after the equinox, the WoW gods will shower you with many loots.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldhearth View Post
    Another band aid fix and another reason why pvp in this game isn't taken seriously.

    The only way it's ever going to get balanced is to separate pve and pvp.
    What PvE feature is causing dampening to be needed? My impression is mostly that this is needed because with some comps in certain brackets (2s is a big thing), we see that healers are balanced for RBGs and 3s. Therefore, this is a "separate PvP (2s) and PvP (3s)" thing, not a PvE thing. How is PvE effecting this?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    What PvE feature is causing dampening to be needed? My impression is mostly that this is needed because with some comps in certain brackets (2s is a big thing), we see that healers are balanced for RBGs and 3s. Therefore, this is a "separate PvP (2s) and PvP (3s)" thing, not a PvE thing. How is PvE effecting this?
    It's not so much something causing dampening, it's the overall PvP/PvE experience which causes issues. An example is Warlock dots are too strong in PvE multi-dot fights so it's nerfed...which causes them to be nerfed in PvP. Now say Blizzard suggests that Deep Wounds is too powerful in PvP, any nerf to that may result in a large DPS loss in PvE (I don't PvE so I don't know if that's true).

    Blizzard already separates some skills between PvP and PvE, CC the easiest example to show. The point is that all abilities in PvP should act different than abilities in PvE, which would make balancing easier since they no longer interact with each other when buffs and nerfs are implemented.
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