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  1. #1

    How to make Mr. Robot work?

    So this is the thing.

    I edited my weights a lot for Mr. Robot to reach the perfect weights.

    Basically as assassination the whole idea is to get as much mastery as possible so the ideas behind my weights is basically getting as much mastery as possible and haste to be A BIT more important than crit.

    Of course 7,5% for hit and exp.

    So, what do you think about this weights?

    Would love to use some better theorycrafting than mine to keep editing these weights until they are as polished as possible


  2. #2
    Scarab Lord Firebert's Avatar
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    I think the general consensus is to use Simcraft and plonk your weights in there.

    Also, enable "At Least" mode to ensure 7.5% Hit/Expertise.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    I think the general consensus is to use Simcraft and plonk your weights in there.

    Also, enable "At Least" mode to ensure 7.5% Hit/Expertise.
    Is this really a good idea? I'm not an Assassination Rogue, but for all of the classes I play, capping is not important enough to waste stats on it.
    I'm not a native English speaker, and yet, I don't suck at English. The argument "English is not my mother tongue" doesn't actually give you an excuse to do so.

  4. #4
    Scarab Lord Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noxiye View Post
    Is this really a good idea? I'm not an Assassination Rogue, but for all of the classes I play, capping is not important enough to waste stats on it.
    The stats wasted are negligible.

    My Arc Mage has 4003 Hit + 340 Hit from wielding a Dagger + 800 Expertise, and the cap is 5100, meaning I waste 43 "stats" from hitcapping. When my Mastery stat is over 12000, it doesn't really matter much.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
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  5. #5
    Legendary! Treelife's Avatar
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    Tick At Least mode for one, like Firebert said, it's more important to cap than it is to waste a tiny amount of stats.

    As for your weights, well, you can get them from the likes of SimCraft, but you have to bear in mind as soon as you make a single change to your gear those weights are now "wrong" (though will still be pretty much the same for the most part outside of Haste breakpoints).

    Also, if you're not using RoRo don't use the option for it.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome -Raer-'s Avatar
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    Personally I use Shadowcraft for Rogue specific reforging/stat weights. I'm guessing that you're talking about Rogue things since it's under the Rogue section.

    Judging from what you said, you play Assassination. Mastery will be the most valuable for most of SoO because almost every fight has more than 1 target. When there is more than 1 target and when you can't sit on one target 100% of the time Mastery will beat out Haste and Crit. Crit is slightly more valuable after you acquire your 4p t16, due to Seal Fate procs. The balance between Crit and Haste is a fine line that will jump back and forth depending on what upgrades you get. Personally, before I went Combat, I was using Crit > Mastery > Haste. This was before all the mathy people did their magic and I went Combat before they had set right the wrongs.

    As for RoRo...personally I would use ANYTHING in place of it. The dynamic way our stats boost one another really doesn't support RoRo's mechanics.

  7. #7
    Like others have said, you should probably hit the "at least mode" button on the Hit and Expertise cap.
    Melee classes are different from Spell-based. Melee classes can go over Hit cap because it won't technically be wasted because it will go towards auto-attacks.

    The other thing is that you're not really using Ask Mr. Robot in the way it's designed. AMR is an optimizer, which means the weights will not naturally change; the way you're wanting to use it, where you'll have some weights that work for all eternity, doesn't work with AMR.

    To make it easy, if what you're wanting is Agi>Haste>Mastery>Crit for your stat priority, then set it that way in AMR's weights. Since they won't change, you'll get what you want.
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  8. #8
    The way to make ask mr robot to work for a rogue is to go up to your url box and type in shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com and then work from there.

    Honestly shadowcraft is just an amazing site. I really wish that there was a shadowcraft version for every class.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    The stats wasted are negligible.

    My Arc Mage has 4003 Hit + 340 Hit from wielding a Dagger + 800 Expertise, and the cap is 5100, meaning I waste 43 "stats" from hitcapping. When my Mastery stat is over 12000, it doesn't really matter much.
    That is a horrible comparison. The variance in total damage of a single mage spell missing and a single rogue ability missing are not even remotely close. We only lose 20% of the energy cost of the move in most cases and can try again shortly after. A mage loses an entire cast they will never get back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    Tick At Least mode for one, like Firebert said, it's more important to cap than it is to waste a tiny amount of stats.
    Depends entirely on how much we're talking about on both sides.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Warstar View Post
    The way to make ask mr robot to work for a rogue is to go up to your url box and type in shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com and then work from there.

    Honestly shadowcraft is just an amazing site. I really wish that there was a shadowcraft version for every class.
    There's nothing wrong with AMR, Shadowcraft, or any other reforge add-on. You just need to know how to effectively use them.
    For example, I used AMR frequently during the first two tiers of MoP when Shadowcraft was switching between Crit/Haste constantly for Assassination. What I would do is take the stat weights from the Mastery>Haste>Crit build I wanted, plug them into AMR, then fiddle with smaller things until I found the best build.

    There's no "THIS IS THE BEST SOURCE" for anything in this game that you can just hand to someone and say "This will work for everything you want to do." You have to configure, and tweak, and understand the source.
    Carp - Illidan-US
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxiye View Post
    Is this really a good idea? I'm not an Assassination Rogue, but for all of the classes I play, capping is not important enough to waste stats on it.
    I would say so. Getting a finisher parried/missed is not a big deal on simulations that have instant reaction time, but when it happens to a player it can result in a major loss since the next ability will likely already be queued assuming that it hits.

  12. #12
    Prior responses have pretty much covered everything, but I'd like to emphasize and expand on what Raer says above - stat weights change. Simply speaking, you can't, for many rogues, get a "perfect" stat weight listing for AMR, because a perfect set doesn't exist unless you're shifting 1 point at a time. A reforge with one priority can change your stat weights enough to make another stat a higher priority.

    The ideal, as a result, will not have your reforging necessarily match your current stat weights (for single target). The same principles apply to multi-target scenarios; stats simply aren't far enough apart to make an ideal list... so you need to use either SimC extensively, or Shadowcraft, if you care about ideal stats.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    I would say so. Getting a finisher parried/missed is not a big deal on simulations that have instant reaction time, but when it happens to a player it can result in a major loss since the next ability will likely already be queued assuming that it hits.
    You're still on gcd after a parry/dodge/miss though so you have a second to stop mashing the wrong key and mash the old one again which should be plenty of time. If you actually meant that thing you can enable to queue abilities... people use that?

    It really depends on how much we are talking about though. If I'm 1 expertise under cap, I'm fine with that. What are you saying you would trade to get to cap from 1 exp under?

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    That is a horrible comparison. The variance in total damage of a single mage spell missing and a single rogue ability missing are not even remotely close. We only lose 20% of the energy cost of the move in most cases and can try again shortly after. A mage loses an entire cast they will never get back.
    You missed the point: the stats lost from overcapping are minute regardless of class.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    You missed the point: the stats lost from overcapping are minute regardless of class.
    So is the dps lost from getting that 1 ability dodged/whatever over a raid reset. Lose something small, gain something small. You're the one who seemed to have missed the point. Its about comparing the size of 2 minor things. If minor automatically meant not worth any consideration, you wouldn't have posted suggesting he should do it one way over the other.

    You also seemed to have missed the fact that opting to hit the cap regardless of the stat weights is a case of expected value versus variance. That is why your example fails. You are substituting a choice made in a case with a substantially larger variance as a reason to do something here. Its completely irrelevant. Its like you making a post saying 'the sky is blue' as if it should assist in making a decision.
    Last edited by Sesshou; 2013-11-21 at 08:54 AM.

  16. #16
    Simcraft stats -> fill them into Mr. Robot -> Profit??

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Berri View Post
    Simcraft stats -> fill them into Mr. Robot -> Profit??
    This doesn't work for the reasons I list above.

    To make this accurate, reword "Profit" as "Repeat endlessly to a loop, find highest result from loop, check for better stat points between loop points." That's kinda wordy though.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-11-21 at 10:50 AM.

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    So is the dps lost from getting that 1 ability dodged/whatever over a raid reset.
    Having one ability dodged is far more annoying than having slightly less DPS. If you want inconsistent DPS, sure, be under cap. It's a QoL choice to be overcapped, and Blizzard seem to agree with me as they're forcing everyone to be capped next expansion.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    If you want inconsistent DPS, sure, be under cap.
    This is really misleading. "Being under cap" doesn't mean being at 0% hit and missing 7.5% of your attacks... being at 7.49% (.01% missing) means that for 1/10,000 attacks, you'll miss. I'd sooner be 2/2550 under the cap than 43 over. That ONE time you actually notice you miss, yeah, it pisses you off, but so what? It almost never happens. Missing ~1/13 abilities is far far different from 1/10,000. I'm not enough of a statistician to tell you what % miss chance causes "significant variance" in your DPS per encounter, but I'd bet money it's well over 160 hit (the breakpoint for half a gem).

    If someone's advocating being 1%+ under cap, I'd tell them they can optimize their stats better... but that's not being said. Also the removal of hit/expertise is tied into the removal of reforging (since the game of hit/expertise just became modifying your gear using an addon or website when equipping it, rather than any real conscious process and decision, as a means of getting as close as possible without going over - pure math, rather than thought).
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-11-21 at 11:51 AM.

  20. #20
    Scarab Lord Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kael View Post
    This is really misleading.
    Not really: being under the cap means there exists the chance that multiple spells/attacks can miss at a much greater chance than listed on your character pane, simply because the average can rebalance itself on the next pull/encounter/whatever. What is misleading is your extrapolation. Under cap by any amount means inconsistent DPS as above, not just 0%.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kael View Post
    If someone's advocating being 1%+ under cap, I'd tell them they can optimize their stats better... but that's not being said.
    Aff Locks deal better DPS whilst under cap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kael View Post
    Also the removal of hit/expertise is tied into the removal of reforging
    It's clearly not a fun mechanic, so they had the choice of removing it and giving everyone a base miss chance or removing it and capping everyone.
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