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  1. #1

    Question joining a flex group with oqueue. (How) Do you check the group at run start ?

    Hello guys !

    Short version :
    I've seen half of the flex i joined with oqueue requesting a certain ilvl and xp, and having guys in the group below the ilvl with no xp (a guy even asked if a summon was possible (for a fresh run, where xp was mandatory) )

    How do you deal with false advertising on oqueue ?

    --
    Longer :
    On openraid, it is quite easy to armory check the guys you will run with even before accepting to join a run.

    On oqueue it's not. You have to join the group and then hope for the best.

    So my questions are :
    - Do you check the guys you'll do the run with, when you enter the instance ?
    - If so, how do you do it ? addon ? manually ? some names are painful to write (on EU servers you often have nice russian guys in the group, and it's not easy to remember / write in the b-net armory, for us non cyrillic writer )
    - What do you do if the check showed that the some guys did not met the advertisement of the run ?

    A good check may include :
    - ilvl (most meaningless, i agree, but it's the only thing oqueue enforce about the RL and other oqueue joiners, and even that can be tricked, with offspec gear)
    - the optimization (is everything enchanted / gemmed / reforged. If you have no knowledge of the class, AMR can give you a idea)
    - the previous experience (on the given toon, it's easy to see on the b.net armory, you can go further with wowprogress sometimes giving mains / alts, so you can see if other toons has xp).

    I'm asking that because it's a bit frustrating to join what will seem to be a farm run (ilvl 540+, flex xp for all bosses of the wing), and that you join a preformed progression group, that the RL completes with oQueue. I can bear one or two wipes per boss. But some others expecting a quicker run leave the group at first wipe (i don't blame them : the run was advertised as a farm one) and most of the time it meant a raid-off in the following 5 minutes : it's a lot of time lost waiting for the group to form, to wipe teaching thing to guys with no xp, etc...

    Please don't tell me to form my own group, it is not a great solution : if everybody follow this advice, everybody will be the leader of a 1-man group which is not really useful for flex raiding

  2. #2
    I don't check the guys, I check RL's "karma" thing and boss - wipes statistics when I am signing up.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by CaML View Post
    nice russian guys
    I hope you are not trolling us

    Going back to your question: I do sometimes check RL's armory. However, I understand Cyrillic and it's easier for me. (But I have the same problems as you when I want to check armory of Portuguese guy.)

    I actually think that OQ developers should add a button near each RL name which should allow you to copy his armory link.

  4. #4
    Field Marshal Ronburggundy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oriana View Post
    I actually think that OQ developers should add a button near each RL name which should allow you to copy his armory link.
    The author went a step further and requested that the armory api be made accessible withen game so that more or less "full" armories would be available withen oQueue.

    Doubt blizz would add that in though.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Oriana View Post
    I hope you are not trolling us
    Nop, we're on the same boat as oQueue users trying to have an enjoyable moment, and i was trying to be nice as it's sometimes a bit hard to understand each other in flex -- when ones do not understand / speak english obviously (and i'm french so there are a lot of people on our servers that do not or don't want to try )

    Ok, i'll try to use karma a bit more (giving / removing karma). Most of the time, it's around 0, though.

  6. #6
    I just check the ilvl req.

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Avada Kedavra's Avatar
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    I dont think there is a way to check armory in game. I use WIM - and if you right click > Whisper them, in teh WIM window you can rightclick the side option which will give you their armory link that u can look up.

    Usually I will stay after a couple wipes. I am a healer so we SEE EVERYTHING. You cant hide shit from us. I look at dps and healing meters. I am usually on top as MW so I use that as my bar if you will. And DPS need to all be over 160k (and thats on the low end specially for wing 4)

    For wing 1-3 I dont care so much cause its cheese.


    If they wipe more than twice and the group is fail then Ill leave. If they wipe but are performing well than its a lesson in mechanics and ill give it a few more pulls.
    “What was God doing before the divine creation? Was he preparing hell for people who asked such questions?” - Stephen Hawking

  8. #8
    Dreadlord Art3x's Avatar
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    The karma thing irritates me, I will log in after not having even been in a group and it will say I've lost karma points. I almost never leave a group early, and I will log on and it says I've lost points .

  9. #9
    Field Marshal tinystomper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art3x View Post
    The karma thing irritates me, I will log in after not having even been in a group and it will say I've lost karma points. I almost never leave a group early, and I will log on and it says I've lost points .
    your karma points degrade by 1 pt every 24 hours. log out for 3 days... when you come back in, you'll find your karma has gone from 10 to 7 (or -10 to -7)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CaML View Post
    - What do you do if the check showed that the some guys did not met the advertisement of the run ?
    there's nothing that can be done about people inviting their friends directly. you could ask in vent and if they say tough beans ... give the leader and offender negative karma and leave the group. you could go the extra step and put both on your banlist, but that's up to you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronburggundy View Post
    The author went a step further and requested that the armory api be made accessible withen game so that more or less "full" armories would be available withen oQueue.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10104710506

  10. #10
    I don´t use oqueue for Flex, it is as simple as that. maybe in a few weeks or months. Oqueue is great for heroic scenerios, RBGs or for doing old content.. but in the end, it is too much like using LFR to do Flex runs. Far too many people have access to the add-on right now. It is just too easy to get stuck with bad players.

    Openraid is much better for doing Flex.

  11. #11
    Field Marshal tinystomper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    it is too much like using LFR to do Flex runs. Far too many people have access to the add-on right now. It is just too easy to get stuck with bad players.
    the only similarity to LFR/LFD is running into people you've never met... but they are accepted into the group by the group leader, a capability you do not have with LFR/LFD. if you think you could do a better job picking people, then you can always form your own group.

    being a good leader is a skill all it's own

    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Openraid is much better for doing Flex.
    openraid? if you want to wait a few days before running, sure. but those groups can fall apart just as easily... which really isn't worth the wait. at least with oQueue, you can join a new one very quickly.

  12. #12
    Oqueue is awesome for flex raiding, my mage joined flex 1 and 2 and we cleared it in 1.5 hours lol. and hes only 538. but i just thought if u set the raid to 540 min ilvl, it'll only let 540+ people join if they checkmark qualified. anyway. my locks at 555 so good there, and i armory everyone i can find in a raid before attempting bosses, but honestly anyone below 540 trying flex p4 should get instant kicked. you wont have the necessary gear to kill fast enough. its just a fact.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaML View Post
    Hello guys !

    Short version :
    I've seen half of the flex i joined with oqueue requesting a certain ilvl and xp, and having guys in the group below the ilvl with no xp (a guy even asked if a summon was possible (for a fresh run, where xp was mandatory) )

    How do you deal with false advertising on oqueue ?

    --
    Longer :
    On openraid, it is quite easy to armory check the guys you will run with even before accepting to join a run.

    On oqueue it's not. You have to join the group and then hope for the best.

    So my questions are :
    - Do you check the guys you'll do the run with, when you enter the instance ?
    - If so, how do you do it ? addon ? manually ? some names are painful to write (on EU servers you often have nice russian guys in the group, and it's not easy to remember / write in the b-net armory, for us non cyrillic writer )
    - What do you do if the check showed that the some guys did not met the advertisement of the run ?

    A good check may include :
    - ilvl (most meaningless, i agree, but it's the only thing oqueue enforce about the RL and other oqueue joiners, and even that can be tricked, with offspec gear)
    - the optimization (is everything enchanted / gemmed / reforged. If you have no knowledge of the class, AMR can give you a idea)
    - the previous experience (on the given toon, it's easy to see on the b.net armory, you can go further with wowprogress sometimes giving mains / alts, so you can see if other toons has xp).

    I'm asking that because it's a bit frustrating to join what will seem to be a farm run (ilvl 540+, flex xp for all bosses of the wing), and that you join a preformed progression group, that the RL completes with oQueue. I can bear one or two wipes per boss. But some others expecting a quicker run leave the group at first wipe (i don't blame them : the run was advertised as a farm one) and most of the time it meant a raid-off in the following 5 minutes : it's a lot of time lost waiting for the group to form, to wipe teaching thing to guys with no xp, etc...

    Please don't tell me to form my own group, it is not a great solution : if everybody follow this advice, everybody will be the leader of a 1-man group which is not really useful for flex raiding
    When I FORM a group in Oque I set the minimum ilvl to mine. I then check to make sure that they have completed the content that I am looking to do in either normal or flex mode and that their armory supports the EQUIPPED ilvl I am looking for.

    When I join a group and do not hear "oh my god we gotz a 557 tank" there is a good chance that the group will do well. If I do, I then do a few looks at people to see who is fully hello kitty timeless island geared before we pull. If the mix is not too terrible I will stay through a wipe or two. After the first wipe you can generally determine for yourself whether you want to invest the time to fix the group or move on to better territory.

    For instance I have no desire to run any but the tier bosses in the first three wings so I join groups that are at them. This immediately puts me at a deficit because you know that one of two things happened. They wiped or someone filling my roll quit. Option B is of course the one you hope for.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    Oqueue is awesome for flex raiding, my mage joined flex 1 and 2 and we cleared it in 1.5 hours lol. and hes only 538. but i just thought if u set the raid to 540 min ilvl, it'll only let 540+ people join if they checkmark qualified. anyway. my locks at 555 so good there, and i armory everyone i can find in a raid before attempting bosses, but honestly anyone below 540 trying flex p4 should get instant kicked. you wont have the necessary gear to kill fast enough. its just a fact.
    Ran wing 4 with 540 ilvl players yesterday. The co tank still had a blue shield.
    Yes, we wiped 3 times and some people left.
    I had a guild member in the group so could not step out myself.
    A couple people rage quit after wipe 3 bringing us down to the magic 11.
    We then completed it, with thanks from all the under geared players who not only got their first mini garrosh kill but got strike as well.







    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  14. #14
    I usualy never chek out the whole raid when i use Openraid. If the leader is good and if he asks for top notch stuff it usualy works out fine
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Blithe View Post
    Most of the Wildstar beta that I participated in consisted of global chat talking about how much better World of Warcraft was until we eventually logged off and logged onto Warcraft instead (that was hilarious).

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronburggundy View Post
    The author went a step further and requested that the armory api be made accessible withen game so that more or less "full" armories would be available withen oQueue.

    Doubt blizz would add that in though.
    Oque would be 100% improved if it only allowed the person forming a group to set the ilvl requirement as high as their own.







    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  16. #16
    Field Marshal tinystomper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Oque would be 100% improved if it only allowed the person forming a group to set the ilvl requirement as high as their own.
    as a group leader, you cannot create a group with oQueue that you do not qualify for. this includes ilevel requirements

  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire Winkle's Avatar
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    Do people actually sue the karma system? I never look at that.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by CaML View Post
    How do you deal with false advertising on oqueue ?
    Its really not false advertising. They are looking to fill the gaps in the raid, not remove the people already there.

    As someone that routinely leads 25man flexes, when I get to the last few dps spots, I look for the highest ilvl available. Often that means people with lower itemlevels will just sit in the queue unaccepted.

    Its the raidleader's responsibility to ensure the success of the raid, not some random pug that couldn't be bothered to form their own lead, and I've had my fill of people that can't put in the effort to form a raid of their own, but feel the need to 'lead' mine with their petty comments about 'why are we doing 25 ?' and such the moment they join. If that means bringing in a 420 alt healer or two to fill those gaps, then so be it. So long as the bosses ar dying, it should be no concern to the raid.

    And ILVL is no guarantee that the bosses will die.

    As far as 'false advertisement', gotta love how oqueue uses people's current specs in the queue, and then they change spec on joining.

  19. #19
    And ILVL is no guarantee that the bosses will die.
    I agree but honestly, it increases its likelyhood (And, you've just written that you were looking for highest ilvl available yourself )

    Its really not false advertising. They are looking to fill the gaps in the raid, not remove the people already there.

    As someone that routinely leads 25man flexes, when I get to the last few dps spots, I look for the highest ilvl available. Often that means people with lower itemlevels will just sit in the queue unaccepted.
    You're a bit off here : i do not tell you to take the less geared guys from the waiting list. Of course you'll take the better geared ones. I do it too. But they know they waitlisted a run asking for a given itemlvl, even if they are 20ilvl above that.

    Put yourself on the joiner side, all i see about the oqueue group is : ilvl 540 + xp about the wing. If i join this group, i expect to be part of a farm run. Other oqueue users too.

    Now if the leader bring players from his guild (or /2, whatever) that have no knowledge of the fights and perhap's are under-performing a bit (due to discovery of fights for example), i'll be part of a progression run, and there are chances we'll need more try on each boss than if everybody had 540ilvl + xp. Some of the random pug will leave at some wipe, (the more he was mislead, the sooner), and the RL, tired from replacing guys, will just call raid off. Which is the problem i'm facing on lot of oqueue groups, and came here to know how others where managing it.

    There are other groups on oqueue asking for lower ilvl, and where no previous xp is ok. i avoid those groups, because i had my share of progression runs RLs perfectly know that the lowest they set oqueue requirements the less geared and XPed players they'll have in their waiting list.

    Its the raidleader's responsibility to ensure the success of the raid, not some random pug that couldn't be bothered to form their own lead...
    I understand that being a RL can be a difficult and ungrateful, but that was not my point, if you want to get advice from other RLs on that, just open your post please.
    RLs need those random pugs, as you call them, to fill-in the last spot from their flex, as well as the pugs need RL to provide a group . And not forming a group is not always due to leniency: maybe i do not know tanks or healers to start the group, and already see 10+ groups on oqueue looking for one or several.
    Even if the success of the run is the RL's entire responsability, (i disagree, but that's not the point of this post), the pugs perhap's want to have an idea, as soon as possible, of whether the run will be a success or not, to avoid losing too much time, with some other random pugs and a random RL.

    If that means bringing in a 420 alt healer or two to fill those gaps, then so be it. So long as the bosses ar dying, it should be no concern to the raid.
    Of course, but if i wrote this post, it was because boss were not dying (even with several wipes) and groups were disbanding.



    If i summarize what was said in the all the previous posts :
    - better usage of karma (for it to work, the oqueue community have to use it)
    - use openraid instead
    - leave earlier after a few wipes with no improvement (generally i stay until the group disbands)
    - form my own flex group (most of the time, there are lots of group for the any wing looking for healers and/or tanks, and i'm not sure making a new one is optimal)
    Last edited by CaML; 2013-10-28 at 04:26 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by CaML View Post
    I understand that being a RL can be a difficult and ungrateful, but that was not my point, if you want to get advice from other RLs on that, just open your post please.
    that really was your point. you didn't like how the raidleaders are selecting people, and that they expect a higher base itemlevel from complete strangers from other realms then they do from their friends and people they've actually raided with before.

    itemlevel is (and always has been) a simplistic gauge of potential performance before bringing someone into a raid. Once they are *in* the raid though, all that matters is ACTUAL performance. I don't give a !@#$ if you're 570 itemlevel if you're on the bottom of the charts with white damage as your top attack.

    i'll be part of a progression run, and there are chances we'll need more try on each boss than if everybody had 540ilvl
    I don't know what definitions you're going by as far as 'farm and progression' run goes... but in a PUG, I usually expect a 'smooth farm run' as being one where people only need 1-2 pieces from the content in question.

    You repeatedly refer to 540 ilvl as being a 'farm run', when in fact it means that the MAJORITY of slots need an upgrade from flex.

    RLs need those random pugs, as you call them, to fill-in the last spot from their flex
    They really don't. That's the whole point of flex. More often then not the *only* reason I am filling up with people is for the social aspect. I'm 100% fine doing it with 24 if someone brings this kind of toxic attitude into the raid.

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