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  1. #1

    Nazgrim Defensive Stance and Water Elemental/Mirror Images Rage

    So I have been with various groups tackling General Nazgrim and I get different information regarding this topic all the time.

    Do mirror images or water elemental's generate rage for General Nazgrim when they hit him during defensive stance?

    From what I can tell they don't, but some people get really pissy when they see my stuff hitting him
    Last edited by Zippers; 2013-10-22 at 03:59 AM.

  2. #2
    Brewmaster durrtygoodz's Avatar
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    Pets definitely don't, I'm not sure about Mirrors since I never use them in d-stance anyway. The only time a pet can give him rage actually is Kill Command for hunters since it's still a player ability.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Pets and Guardians auto attacks/spells do NOT cause him to gain rage in defensive stance. As mentioned above, only player activated pet abilities will cause him to gain rage(Like kill command).

    Also, DoTs that do not cause damage upon application do NOT cause him to gain rage either. All of our bombs and spells like SW:P and Corruption are perfectly fine to keep up on him during defensive stance and will not cause him to gain any rage. Spells like Moonfire and Devouring Plague are not since they cause damage upon application.

    If you are a guild that doesn't hit him in defensive stance, dotting him up during it can shave off a minute or more on your kill time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    Also, DoTs that do not cause damage upon application do NOT cause him to gain rage either. All of our bombs and spells like SW:P and Corruption are perfectly fine to keep up on him during defensive stance and will not cause him to gain any rage. Spells like Moonfire and Devouring Plague are not since they cause damage upon application.
    SW: P does damage on application, so it will generate rage.

    So Mage Bomb splash aoe, the spreaded Pyro and Ignite dots and legendary cloak's aoe won't generate rage too? E.g. from going LB->Pyro->Infernal Blast into Korkron Banner.

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    SW: P does damage on application, so it will generate rage.

    So Mage Bomb splash aoe, the spreaded Pyro and Ignite dots and legendary cloak's aoe won't generate rage too? E.g. from going LB->Pyro->Infernal Blast into Korkron Banner.
    I'm not sure about the others honestly, since I am arcane and haven't tested the cloak/splash. I'll give it some more in-depth testing this week and get back to you on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    I'm not sure about the others honestly, since I am arcane and haven't tested the cloak/splash. I'll give it some more in-depth testing this week and get back to you on that.
    What about the explosion from living bomb? It doesnt generate rage?

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willemh View Post
    What about the explosion from living bomb? It doesnt generate rage?
    I haven't directly tested a LB explosion, such as putting it on the banner during D stance. I'll test that this week for sure but from the information I have gathered it's only direct damage that causes rage gain. Like I said I'll check more into it this week firsthand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    So this week I tested some things out. The dot from cloak does not cause rage and I didn't notice him gaining any rage from a bomb exploding on a banner.

    I did not get to test pyro or ignite, since I am Arc/Frost, nor did I get to test the cloak AoE since the banner dies so fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  9. #9
    Field Marshal Zaivia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    it's only direct damage that causes rage gain.
    So aff warlock dots , our bombs, vampiric touch etc. don't give him rage? interesting

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    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryolex View Post
    So aff warlock dots , our bombs, vampiric touch etc. don't give him rage? interesting

    Pretty much every DoT that does not cause damage upon application. Like moonfire and SW:P wont work.

    Oh yeah, I also tossed a frozen orb at him one pull and he did not seem to gain any rage from that either. Next week I will try actual AoE spells like Blizzard, FS and AE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  11. #11
    I would like a bump regarding this topic. I am right now working on HC Nazgrim.

    Are you talking about DoT that a refreshed just before Nazgrim goes Defensive Stance, or does it work ALSO when Nazgrim is ALREADY in Defensive Stance? Like, I put a LB on him right before he went in Defensive Stance. Can I refresh it without any worries?

  12. #12
    They're talking about applying new dots while Nazgrim is already in defensive stance.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  13. #13
    You can still let your pet dps Nazgrim and refresh your Bomb while he is in defensive stance, tested it multiple time
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  14. #14
    I did Nazgrim earlier this week in Flex, and while your pet won't generate rage, I'm almost positive my mirrors did (was popped before D-stance w/ lust). Either that or someone was smacking the boss (which, we were pretty ranged heavy, didn't notice anyone still on the boss other than pets). Might do wing 2 again just to test, but I dunno how accurate I'll be. :/

  15. #15
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Mage Stuff that does not add Rage:
    - Water Elemental (Freeze as well if an add is close to Nazgrim)
    - Applying Nether Tempest and its ticks
    - Applying Living Bomb and its ticks
    - Applying Frost Bomb

    Mage Stuff that may (not?)* add Rage:
    - Mirror Images (Unsure because it's not a pet, but not you either)
    - Frost Bomb explosions (Just to be safe, use NT or LB, lolololol)
    - Combustion ticks (This may not actually apply Rage and I just haven't heard someone try, but I know for a fact the initial hit will count)
    - Frozen Orb (never tried this either)
    - Essence of Yu'lon (I'm leaning towards does NOT add rage with this one, but you can never be too careful!)
    - Multistrike (Same as EoY, I'm assuming this one doesn't add rage, but again, I can't confirm it myself)
    - Icicles, both Primary and Secondary (I almost want to confirm it doesn't add rage, as Icicles is 'extra' damage because it's trying to be like Frostburn, but I cannot 100% confirm one way or another)
    - Living Bomb explosions (Apparently someone else claims that they DO add rage, but have yet to give a complete confirmation. More testing needed for LB)

    * These are all the spells that, to my knowledge, I'm not sure which side they're on. Feel free to confirm them on either side and I'll change them.

    Mage Stuff that will add Rage:
    - Main spells (Arcane Blast/Barrage, Fireball, Frostbolt)
    - Proc spells (Arcane Missiles, Pyroblast, Frostfire Bolt/Ice Lance)
    - AoE spells (Arcane Explosion, Flamestrike, Blizzard/Frost Nova)
    - Combustion's initial damage (Again though, ticks may not count. Granted, you should use it at the halfway point of Berserker and start of Battle so it's never up during Defensive anyways...)
    - Nether Tempest secondary ticks (Thanks to Khakiis for this one)
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-11-09 at 06:33 AM.

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  16. #16
    I don't think him gaining a few rage from an LB explosion or errant cast matters much. None of his mechanics are terribly threatening other than ravager, the 100 rage cost which you shouldn't ever reach in D-stance unless ignoring it.

  17. #17
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citrique View Post
    I don't think him gaining a few rage from an LB explosion or errant cast matters much. None of his mechanics are terribly threatening other than ravager, the 100 rage cost which you shouldn't ever reach in D-stance unless ignoring it.
    That's assuming you're the only one who causes a rage gain.

    You can be rest assured 99% of guilds have that one(/multiple) guy(s) who either constantly casts or will add more rage throughout every D-stance.

    Every little bit adds up and if possible, it's best to know what will and won't add rage.

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  18. #18
    The Patient Kver's Avatar
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    If you assume that DoTs do not generate rage due to the fact that you can not remove them, as a player, whenever he enters defensive stance, you would assume that the same reasoning applies to Living Bomb's explosion. Not entirely sure how you are supposed to find out if LB generates rage, other than going out of your way to ensure it is the only source of damage :P

  19. #19
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draghonfourt View Post
    If you assume that DoTs do not generate rage due to the fact that you can not remove them, as a player, whenever he enters defensive stance, you would assume that the same reasoning applies to Living Bomb's explosion. Not entirely sure how you are supposed to find out if LB generates rage, other than going out of your way to ensure it is the only source of damage :P
    I might try it in my next Flex run, just to test pretty much everything.

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  20. #20
    Polarthief, How in the name of hell is it possible for you to have two shamans kills and 0 nazgrim. Nazgrim is drastically easier. I think we killed it in like 8 pulls or something.

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