1. #1

    Are there any OLD talent tree calculators, like wartools around?

    I don't know if anyone remembers wartools, but basically it allowed you to design your own talents for a class of your choice.

    Of course it referred to the old talent tree's we had from vanilla to wotlk, not the basic kind we have been stuck with for cata and mop.


    I really hope that next expansion, the old talents will come back. I know it's a long shot, and I know it's unlikely, but the game just doesn't feel the same without them and personally I dislike the changes. I'm not saying that the game is getting worse or that I'm looking with rose tinted goggles, it's just to me, the game does not feel as fun without talents. I don't feel like I can customise my character when I'm only given 3 choices, and seeing as how I'm a rogue, all these choices are pretty damn similar anyway, and I'm hoping that rogues will get some attention in the next expansion.

  2. #2
    Obviously the old talents were truly talent TREES, what we have now is just a simple-mindedness...


  3. #3
    The Patient
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    http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?talent=1714695_9

    Is this what you're looking for?

  4. #4
    MMO Champions old Cataclysm one is still around. http://db.mmo-champion.com/utils/talent/#k=

  5. #5
    Rogues for sure need some attention to differ the specs a bit more, but that is not a fault of the talent system itself.

    The choices are intended to be between similiar effects. If you look back to vanilla, you didn't really have a real choice what to spec. There were way too much passive fillers between a handful of playstyle alternating skills.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Obviously the old talents were truly talent TREES, what we have now is just a simple-mindedness...
    Well, I do agree with this. But this still doesn't answer my question, is there anything out there like the old wartools?

    If blizzard incorporated a talent tree system similar to rift, well, they would probably have more subscribers than ever. I'm not saying trion (people who make rift) have done everything "perfect", but their talent tree system is fairly solid and the whole game is based around it. The fact that you can respec your rogue to a hunter too, is pretty damn interesting, however I do think they took the classes "too far" sometimes.

    If blizzard just dedicated a majority of their development team to recreate the talent trees for every class and actually put choice into each talent tree, I'm reasonably sure it would be a huge success, definitely enough work worthy of a new expansion. I mean lets through some examples out there, nothing too extreme like a knew role but just enough to give everyones favourite class something new. Perhaps combine the ideas of the old talent trees with the new, so when you get to say 15 points, you have to choose one talent from that row, or 1 from a previous tier.

    At the very least, being able to go backwards and choose lower level abilities (ie pick more than one talent from a line) would be interesting, for example maybe I want to pick up two mobility skills at the cost of something else, that's what choice is all about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimson View Post
    Almost

    Except, I want to be able to change the text and icons of the abilities to create fictional abilities.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Togarox View Post
    MMO Champions old Cataclysm one is still around. http://db.mmo-champion.com/utils/talent/#k=
    Clicking on this made be realise how glad I am that shit has gone for good

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by JustStampi View Post
    Rogues for sure need some attention to differ the specs a bit more, but that is not a fault of the talent system itself.

    The choices are intended to be between similiar effects. If you look back to vanilla, you didn't really have a real choice what to spec. There were way too much passive fillers between a handful of playstyle alternating skills.
    Well, that I can appreciate, and my point here wasn't really to complain about rogues.

    If I was to make a point however, I think that the talents trees should be redesigned using the old system. There should actually be choice, instead of just giving up and dumbing the idea down.

    I can appreciate that the talent tree hybriding was too powerful, and it resulted in a variety of hybrid builds (such as unkillable holy-prot tank healers in wotlk, or HARP in tbc) so I can understand "why" it became necessary to spend 51 points in a talent tree in cata, but I would still like that choice back.

    Rift have a system where you gain necessary talents, as you invest talent points into a talent tree. That's a brilliant system really, it means you cannot make a "wrong" build by skipping out key abilities, but you still have the choice of picking your goodies. Sure, there will be a cookie cutter build at some point, but that's not a reason to remove choice all together.

  9. #9
    Dreadlord Pisholina's Avatar
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    In my opinion, the perfect talent tree would be a combination of the old and the new talent system. Take for instance the first tier Shaman talents. When you reach level 15, the talent "tree" is open for you. You can choose between:
    1. Nature's Guardian , where your maximum health is increased by 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25% for every talent you put in it,
    2. Stone Bulwark Totem, where the totem places a changing amount of absorb shield depending on how many points you spent on it.
    3. Astral Shift that gives you 8 / 16 / 24 / 32 / 40% damage reduction for 6 seconds.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Pisholina View Post
    In my opinion, the perfect talent tree would be a combination of the old and the new talent system. Take for instance the first tier Shaman talents. When you reach level 15, the talent "tree" is open for you. You can choose between:
    1. Nature's Guardian , where your maximum health is increased by 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25% for every talent you put in it,
    2. Stone Bulwark Totem, where the totem places a changing amount of absorb shield depending on how many points you spent on it.
    3. Astral Shift that gives you 8 / 16 / 24 / 32 / 40% damage reduction for 6 seconds.
    I sort of see what you're saying. So for example, going back to rogues,

    Do you mean, you start getting talents tree's "the old way" and then when you've spent 20 talent points in a tree, instead of just picking "cold blood" like you would have done in the old trees, you would then get a "choice" of THREE talents.

    The con is, you can only pick one, unless for example you spend 30 points in that tree, when you'd make your next choice, you could go back and choose one from the previous tier - something which you cannot do at the moment but could potentially be very interesting.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    If blizzard combined the old (pre cataclysm) system with the new (Mists of Pandaria) system, so to use both.... Well then we would see some interesting specs, hybrids and varying playstyles. I get where Blizzard were going with the new system, but in practice it just resulted in mostly the same issues of the cookie cutter, while removing even the possibility of a pre-cata style hybrid spec or alternative playstyle.

    Imagine the new system intact, as a seperate tree to the old system. So you get a point every level and can shape your char with generic points and key specialisation based abilities, and at certain level points (just like today) you get to choose a special ability that is shared accross all 3 specs. That would really mix things up, and I think that is what wow is missing, It's hard to believe it can get more homogenized.

    WoW needs things to be mixed up, it needs to be a little more messy like in the old days. Messy is interesting, with messy you can find interesting things, today everything is so streamlined and it's not a good thing. Unnecessarily streamlined.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    If blizzard combined the old (pre cataclysm) system with the new (Mists of Pandaria) system, so to use both.... Well then we would see some interesting specs, hybrids and varying playstyles. I get where Blizzard were going with the new system, but in practice it just resulted in mostly the same issues of the cookie cutter, while removing even the possibility of a pre-cata style hybrid spec or alternative playstyle.

    Imagine the new system intact, as a seperate tree to the old system. So you get a point every level and can shape your char with generic points and key specialisation based abilities, and at certain level points (just like today) you get to choose a special ability that is shared accross all 3 specs. That would really mix things up, and I think that is what wow is missing, It's hard to believe it can get more homogenized.

    WoW needs things to be mixed up, it needs to be a little more messy like in the old days. Messy is interesting, with messy you can find interesting things, today everything is so streamlined and it's not a good thing. Unnecessarily streamlined.
    I really agree with this. All they'd have to do is just combine the new and old system.

    I mean as an example, how many warriors once upon a time had wet dreams over the though of having mortal strike and blood thirst in the same spec? Essentially, they do the same thing (they both deal damage) so where is the probably if you wanted to let a warrior pick bloodthirst instead of mortal strike?

    Or for a more basic example, maybe a warrior wanted to pick deathwish over sweeping strikes or vis versa. Why not just allow classes to go down the talent tree as normal, then when it came to those abilities that requires 20 points spent in one tree, just have a choice of 3 three different abilities. If they're that concerned about cookie cutters, just write "recommended" next to one of them.


    -------

    Had another idea, what if all the talents were just chucked into a single, 9 colum wide talent tree system, with no restrictions? That could be hugely interesting

  13. #13
    Bumping this thread because I still want an answer!

    Are there any program's out there I could use? Or is there a way i can download all of the art used for in game spells so that I could add it to a table in excel?

  14. #14
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Obviously the old talents were truly talent TREES, what we have now is just a simple-mindedness...
    Oh ya we all loved the Cookie Cutter Trees. /sarcasm

  15. #15
    Is this what you mean... http://wow112.gamestool.net/maget.php? or you want to make your own...?

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    A simple google gave me the MoP one... http://mop-talent-grid-maker.appspot.com/ still looking for old one, though.

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    It seems that site was old, when the talent trees were current. The site updates along with WoW.
    Last edited by Fleurette; 2013-10-22 at 02:31 AM.
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  16. #16
    i'd like to get a replacement for Chardev.org, seeing as it went offline.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Boottybounce View Post
    Is this what you mean... http://wow112.gamestool.net/maget.php? or you want to make your own...?

    - - - Updated - - -

    A simple google gave me the MoP one... http://mop-talent-grid-maker.appspot.com/ still looking for old one, though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It seems that site was old, when the talent trees were current. The site updates along with WoW.
    I want to be able to make my own, in the old style. I hate the new mop talents. I actually think the whole last 2 expansion have been massive failures compared to vanilla, tbc, and wotlk but that's a separate topic. I'm eagerly awaiting the announcement of expansion #5, hopefully it will be good but I am skeptical.

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