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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by inferior2 View Post
    This is true. The only way to rank good is to get a superstacked Rip that lasts the whole 25% in the end. All the little micro optimizations you do before that gets completely overshadowed by the RNG in trinket procs. I am quite annoyed by this actually.

    For example, here is the BitW phase of my rank 1 thok normal kill. Look at the Rip damage. I didn't get the double trinket proc until the middle of the phase and by then my pot was already over.: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/mfim4...=10178&e=10235

    No procs I would have lost ~ 40k dps. Better timing with the procs and I could have gained maybe 20k more. Completely out of my hand. The RNG in trinket procs determine much more of your damage than if you go Treants or DoC or anything. Quite sad.
    I'm not referring to what is best for ranking on WOL, and getting a high parse. I'm referring to over a range of attempts and variations what the best talent is, and while its DOC, its not doc by that much.

    Is DOC best for getting a high parse on WOL, well duh, sit on boss, wait till 25%/trinket procs/doc/tf/pot/tricks and then pop a rip on the boss and never let it drop. However that's not what makes DOC good over many attempts, its only what makes doc good for getting on WOL.

    So really what everyone is arguing about comes down to one thing, are you trying to rank on WOL? If you are then having a set up and the raid support you so you can get a top 10 on a fight while using DOC will net a lot more dps. However in progression content Hotw/NV are just as good as DOC due to reduced complexity, increased utility, and only costing a few thousand dps under the ideal circumstances needed for DOC.

  2. #42
    Omg. This is what i am talking about. DoC is overpowered and needs to be adjusted with other talent choices.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasek View Post
    Omg. This is what i am talking about. DoC is overpowered and needs to be adjusted with other talent choices.
    It's an excerpt from a 3:40 thok 10m parse. What in your opinion is wrong with what you posted?
    Last edited by Alpheus; 2013-10-22 at 04:51 PM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasek View Post
    Omg. This is what i am talking about. DoC is overpowered and needs to be adjusted with other talent choices.
    Well, the truth is that I failed and I didn't even manage to DoC my last Rip there so what you are seeing in that log has nothing to do with DoC. Maybe my comment was a bit off topic and not really related to which one is the "best" talent for raiding. I just needed to vent a bit about how ridiculous the RNG has become with the combination of extremely strong RPPM trinkets and being able to keep a snapshotted bleed for 25% of the fight.

    What talent that is best is quite obvious. Are you failing due to enrage, then maybe try DoC. Else I would always use HoTW. Tranq + blanket rejuvnations are extremely strong. For example on Jugger 10 man hc you can pull 130k + hps for 45 seconds (this is with 30% overhealing): http://worldoflogs.com/reports/zm33l...=13790&e=13837

    If anything, that should be considered OP.

  5. #45
    I'll use DoC on farm content but while it's progression-it's more like HOTW is mandatory. The talents are very close if played correctly. All of last tier DoC was only a 2-4k dps increase for me over HOTW.

    DoC Is better on paper but if you can't handle the normal feral rotation flawlessly-it's a dps loss to throw in DoC onto of that. The talent is simply not for beginners so saying it's "Mandatory" is completely false.

    Midwinter's feral Sten, uses HOTW exclusively, it's completely viable and very handy on a few fights this tier.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by inferior2 View Post
    Well, the truth is that I failed and I didn't even manage to DoC my last Rip there so what you are seeing in that log has nothing to do with DoC. Maybe my comment was a bit off topic and not really related to which one is the "best" talent for raiding. I just needed to vent a bit about how ridiculous the RNG has become with the combination of extremely strong RPPM trinkets and being able to keep a snapshotted bleed for 25% of the fight.

    What talent that is best is quite obvious. Are you failing due to enrage, then maybe try DoC. Else I would always use HoTW. Tranq + blanket rejuvnations are extremely strong. For example on Jugger 10 man hc you can pull 130k + hps for 45 seconds (this is with 30% overhealing): http://worldoflogs.com/reports/zm33l...=13790&e=13837

    If anything, that should be considered OP.

    Reality shows that only pure dps matters. Many heroic bosses on progression is DPS check(actual bosses, first week(s) after patch release).
    In top guilds difference between damage done is so small between all raiders(well, maybe except for some OP classes) that doing just a little % lower damage because of choosing something else over DOC means you will get replaced.

    And that difference between DOC and HOTW is too huge just to skip that extra damage. Even all my friends-top-rankeds ferals who always known as HOTW-lovers now raiding with DOC.
    Last edited by Vasek; 2013-10-22 at 06:05 PM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasek View Post
    Reality shows that only pure dps matters. Many heroic bosses on progression is DPS check(actual bosses, first week(s) after patch release).
    In top guilds difference between damage done is so small between all raiders(well, maybe except for some OP classes) that doing just a little % lower damage because of choosing something else over DOC means you will get replaced.

    And that difference between DOC and HOTW is too huge just to skip that extra damage. Even all my friends-top-rankeds ferals who always known as HOTW-lovers now raiding with DOC.
    You argue progression and high dps checks (which there aren't any really) yet as your main point of argument you post some random interval from a farm Thok kill. And that on 10man normal. Is this because you are angry that you decided not to use DoC and everyone tells you you should? If you are in a top20 heroic raiding guild (ie. Garrosh HC dead by now) you wouldn't be raging like this and if you aren't then the damage difference between hotw and DoC won't make or break your progression speed. Maybe you should just calm down and find what it really is that's causing you to do low dps (if that's the case). Using HotW while doing so is completely fine.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    You argue progression and high dps checks (which there aren't any really) yet as your main point of argument you post some random interval from a farm Thok kill. And that on 10man normal. Is this because you are angry that you decided not to use DoC and everyone tells you you should? If you are in a top20 heroic raiding guild (ie. Garrosh HC dead by now) you wouldn't be raging like this and if you aren't then the damage difference between hotw and DoC won't make or break your progression speed. Maybe you should just calm down and find what it really is that's causing you to do low dps (if that's the case). Using HotW while doing so is completely fine.
    I am not talking about this tier only. I just don't want this trend of mass rerolling into DoC to see in upcoming raids.
    All arguments are shown in worldoflogs.com you can check it by yourself.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasek View Post
    I am not talking about this tier only. I just don't want this trend of mass rerolling into DoC to see in upcoming raids.
    HOW DARE PEOPLE USE THE BEST DPS TALENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I honesly don't know what you're trying to accomplish.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasek View Post
    I am not talking about this tier only. I just don't want this trend of mass rerolling into DoC to see in upcoming raids.
    All arguments are shown in worldoflogs.com you can check it by yourself.
    Just read it again and this is going to be a whole lot easier.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    HOW DARE PEOPLE USE THE BEST DPS TALENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I honesly don't know what you're trying to accomplish.
    I want to see all t6 talents to be equal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    Just read it again and this is going to be a whole lot easier.
    No you.

    I see you just trying to prove how bad i am if i started to complain?

    Im playing feral more than 7 years, i earned lots of ranked places(including several top 1 staying actual for a weeks on progression heroic bosses in many tiers) in Worldoflogs.com, and even in Wowmeteronline these old days(however i think you didnt even heard about it).
    Last edited by Vasek; 2013-10-22 at 06:29 PM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasek View Post
    I want to see all t6 talents to be equal.
    Nothing will ever be equal in this game. There is always going to be a best option, even if it's only by a tiny amount. I also fail to see why you're complaiining about it only for t6 talents and only in the Druid forum. Surely if you want talents to be equal you'd want every talent for every class to be equal? Or are you just mad that you can't play Feral (DoC) properly so you're whinging on forums that things should be changed so you don't need to put any effort into playing the game.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Nothing will ever be equal in this game. There is always going to be a best option, even if it's only by a tiny amount. I also fail to see why you're complaiining about it only for t6 talents and only in the Druid forum. Surely if you want talents to be equal you'd want every talent for every class to be equal? Or are you just mad that you can't play Feral (DoC) properly so you're whinging on forums that things should be changed so you don't need to put any effort into playing the game.
    Im not having fun with DoC, especially when i get forced to use it. Using fcking healing spell in rotation is ridiculous.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasek View Post
    Im not having fun with DoC, especially when i get forced to use it. Using fcking healing spell in rotation is ridiculous.
    So I was right. You're too lazy to learn your class properly and think things should be changed for you.

    Not. Going. To. Happen.

  15. #55
    Here's some 25 data, pulling data from WoL is soooo sloowwww...
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...oCPopTop10.png

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    So I was right. You're too lazy to learn your class properly and think things should be changed for you.

    Not. Going. To. Happen.
    For seven years of playing feral i know my spec for 100%. Thats more than some of you, casuals, combined together.

    Quote Originally Posted by raffy View Post
    Here's some 25 data, pulling data from WoL is soooo sloowwww...
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...oCPopTop10.png
    Thank you. Nice statistic. Especially Iron Juggernaut.
    Last edited by Vasek; 2013-10-22 at 07:19 PM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasek View Post
    For seven years of playing feral i know my spec for 100%. Thats more than some of you, casuals, combined together.
    I'm not sure what you're on about. You clearly don't know your spec 100% otherwise you wouldn't be complaining about it being too hard for you to do. Then you go ahead and try insult people be calling them casuals? Ok......

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    I'm not sure what you're on about. You clearly don't know your spec 100% otherwise you wouldn't be complaining about it being too hard for you to do. Then you go ahead and try insult people be calling them casuals? Ok......
    He's just trolling at this point, let it be. At least raffy got some fun parsing WoL. /thread

  19. #59

  20. #60
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Would you rather have a DPS range of 380-420k using HotW or 400-440k using DoC?
    40k range for both with the higher end being DoC? C'mon man!

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