View Poll Results: Do you like mastery as stat?

Voters
555. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes.

    379 68.29%
  • No.

    176 31.71%
Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ...
7
8
9
10
LastLast
  1. #161
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Tír na nÓg
    Posts
    12,083
    Quote Originally Posted by Rheckameohs View Post
    Actually, death knights have the best and worst of the stat. As awesome and game-changing as Blood Shield is
    See, this is where the misconception starts. Blood shield is not 'game changing'. It doesn't change anything that you do. You are already going to use death strike for self healing and b/c it hits hard. It's effectively part of the rotation. It doesn't magically make the ability useful in a different way or suddenly make you want to push it even more. It's a rotational, heavily used ability if you removed the mastery.

    Maybe pro level DK tanks can utilize it to the maximum potential, but the majority of players would be unaffected in terms of what they do without it. This is not an interesting or 'game changing' mastery. It's actually the opposite. Feeling OP, or like a beast, b/c your mastery passively affects something in an awesome way is still just passively affecting something.
    BAD WOLF

  2. #162
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    East Coast USA
    Posts
    3,400
    No. Pure and simple. Blizzard needs to get over their need for tanks to take damage from every hit. Improved chance to block when you cannot get off the hit chart is almost as useless as dodge that cannot be pumped up high enough to count for jack diddly squat.


    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  3. #163
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Brawl Pub
    Posts
    3,632
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    Frost damage, bleed damage, shadow dmg, blood shield, etc. There are enough that the system needs to be revisited. +% of x dmg is wholly uninteresting.

    Add to that:
    increased armor
    icnreased pet damage
    increased magic damage
    etc
    etc
    etc

    None of these change your rotations or playstyle, no matter how many people say otherwise. The priorities are still the same as you use those abilities regardless.
    Let's take a look at those "boring" masteries:

    1) Frost damage in frost DK: only affects HB, frost strike, NOT Oblit, so it devalues by 1) fight, mastery being more important on AoE fights where you're HBing, 2) playstyle, with mastery devalued in 2H, which oblits more.

    2) Bleed Damage in feral: only affects three of feral abilities, including their main finisher. Devalues Ferocious Bites, Mangles, Swipe (on AoE), can lead to an interesting "multi-DoTTing" technique in 2-3 target feral with Rake, etc.

    3) Shadow Damage in...unholy I guess? Only affects Scourge strike bonus damage, death coil, gargoyle damage, not pet damage. Makes mastery more beneficial on high movement fights where your pet may have crappy uptime (IDK if that's the case for unholy DKs, thinking of it from a hunter perspective).

    4) Blood shield? Really? That's the definition of an interesting mastery.

    5) Increased armor, guardian. Really the only uninteresting one on your whole list.

    6) Increased pet damage in BM, shifts mastery based on single-target, AoE, high movement fights where your pet might have crappy uptimes, etc.

    7) Increased magic dmg...I assume you're talking enhancement (yes, boring) or SV, but even in SV the value of mastery shifts across AoE or ST fights, as Improved Serpent Sting is a potent source of damage and haste is devalued in fights like H-Wind Lord, etc.

    So, yes, I don't consider these masteries "boring." Not if you're a min-maxer. Sure, none of them fundamentally change your playstyle (except in cases like Blood Shield and multi-Raking and some other examples), but since when do haste and crit do that? The only classes I've ever cared about Haste was all about reaching a certain haste breakpoint, and then magically my DoTs had extra ticks. It didn't involve anything I had to do.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    No. Pure and simple. Blizzard needs to get over their need for tanks to take damage from every hit.
    And the laugh track begins. Blizz have been bending over backwards trying to get tanks to start using dodge/parry gear, again.
    Gone until the next expansion.

  5. #165
    Brewmaster RaoBurning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arizona, US
    Posts
    1,488
    In general, yes. Better for some specs than others, certainly. I think it adds a different flavor than hit/exp/haste/crit. Mastery is a very specific type of power boost.

    For example, my Destro Lock. A solid mastery proc can really kick ass when I'm FnB Incinerating a big pack of mobs, or help burn through big adds with a well placed Havoc Chaos Bolt. It's pure bonus for Aff Lock, and I have a blast with high mastery builds as an Elemental shaman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    Hey Elsa, do you wanna build a strawmaaaan?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Poor people are not a blight, they are a resource to be exploited for the betterment of the middle and upper class.
    ^ To be fair, not sure if serious.

  6. #166
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Tír na nÓg
    Posts
    12,083
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    So, yes, I don't consider these masteries "boring." Not if you're a min-maxer. Sure, none of them fundamentally change your playstyle (except in cases like Blood Shield and multi-Raking and some other examples), but since when do haste and crit do that? The only classes I've ever cared about Haste was all about reaching a certain haste breakpoint, and then magically my DoTs had extra ticks. It didn't involve anything I had to do.
    All of what you wrote was just stretching the truth that none of those change your rotation in the slightest. Like I said, you will be using death strikes anyways so having a shield doesn't somehow make it more fun or different to play the class. For all the 'devalues this, values that' it just doesn't change anything.

    I mean you even used that somehow mastery of a feral devalues FB, but there is a priority system regardless of wtf your mastery level is at. It's not like there are druids running around using FB in place of rip ffs. What you have written is basically fluff. We have math that tells us exactly what to do and mastery doesn't fundamentally change what you are doing. You dont' gain some new and exciting playstyle because you just reforged to all mastery. Give me a break.

    You are also operating under the fallacy that I somehow think haste or crit are more interesting or do anything differently. Let me just clarify that I don't. I think they are all equally uninteresting, except that large differences in haste can be readily observed via resource regen and amount of abilities used (Smashing more buttons) which others have pointed out.

    I already gave a suggestion for mastery many, many pages ago that actually makes it an interesting stat.

    Edit:
    You are confusing 'interesting' with 'effective'. They are not remotely similar concepts.
    BAD WOLF

  7. #167
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    The Dog Park
    Posts
    4,041
    it's not always bad that the masteries are a % increase to damage, as long as that increase to damage relates to the core essence of that spec

    Demonology's core essence is stance dancing, and knowing how to time Metamorphosis with procs and cooldowns, how to pool DF out of Meta and burn it in Meta, so Demonology's mastery is a trully superb expression of that core essense. I would same the same for Destruction's Mastery, which also relies on Resource management and timing. Yes both their masteries are passive damage increases but that mastery is tied to the essence of the rotation itself.

    On the opposite end of spectrum is a truly flawed mastery like Mistweaver mastery, mistweaver mastery is basically completely out the hands of the skill of the player, and there is nothing the player can do to maximise or fail to maximise the benefit of mastery, and stacking mastery on a MW has practically no measureable benefit either. and worst of all, healing spheres have little relationship to the nature of a monk's rotation. I better mastery would be some sort of mastery that tied into the chi-generators vs. chi-expenders mechanic.


    I am personally less interested in whether mastery is easy/convenient to use or difficult/nuanced to use, than i am with whether or not a spec's mastery is stylistically appropriate to that spec.
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2013-10-25 at 07:53 PM.

  8. #168
    it just another stat the makes the scaling issue that much worse


    but I like the concept of it, just not the execution/implementation of it.
    Stormspellz -mugthol
    Battletag - Stormz#1438

  9. #169
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Covina, California
    Posts
    1,451
    I don't mind it, but I far preferred armor pen.

  10. #170
    I like mastery overall. I think some of the more boring mastery for specs like rogue ones should be changed. But for the majority of specs I'd say I like it.

  11. #171
    I love the idea of a stat that boosts a special class based ability, but I don't like mastery itself as a stat. I'm having a hard time putting my reasoning into words right now, but simply put, I find it odd that my Assassination Rogue relies on it so heavily where my Arms Warrior could do without it almost completely. It seems to me like the bonuses given by mastery could be baked into each classes' primary stat (agility, strength, intelligence, etc...)

  12. #172
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    The Dog Park
    Posts
    4,041
    this is my take on all the masteries, it merely reflects personal opinion.

    Most boring masteries:
    • Frost: [Frozen Heart] (bland/passive)
    • Unholy: [Dreadblade] (bland/passive)
    • Guardian: [Nature's Guardian] (entirely passive)
    • Marksmanship: [Wild Quiver] (entirely passive)
    • Survival: [Essence of the Viper] (poor thematic coherence, passive)
    • Mistweaver: [Gift of the Serpent] (severely flawed)
    • Holy (pally) : [Illuminated Healing] (bland)
    • Retribution: [Hand of Light] (entirely passive)
    • Holy (priest) : [Echo of Light] (entirely passive)
    • Enhancement: [Enhanced Elements] (no thematic coherence)
    • Affliction: [Potent Afflictions] (bland/passive)
    • Arms: [Strikes of Opportunity] (passive)
    • Protection (Warr): [Critical Block] (passive)


    Masteries I am ambivalent about:
    • Protection (Pally): [Divine Bulwark] (at least it requires awareness of Bastion of Glory)
    • Shadow[Shadowy Recall] (at least it’s tied to various proc-on-tic abilities)
    • Frost: [Icicles]: (passive but thematically coherent)
    • Combat [Main Gauche] (at least it’s tied to energy regeneration)
    • Assassination: [Potent Poisons] (passive but thematically coherent)
    • Elemental: [Elemental Overload] (passive but thematically coherent)
    • Restoration: [Deep Healing] (passive but thematically coherent)
    • Feral: [Razor Claws] (passive but thematically coherent)


    My favorite Masteries:
    • Blood: [Blood Shield] (thematically coherent, benefits from superb skill and timing)
    • Balance: [Total Eclipse] (thematically coherent, central to rotation, tied to resource management)
    • Restoration: [Harmony] (thematically coherent, require active maintenance)
    • Beast Mastery: [Master of Beasts] (thematically coherent, tied to pet management)
    • Arcane: [Mana Adept] (thematically coherent, tied to resource management)
    • Fire: [Ignite] (thematically coherent, central to rotation)
    • Brewmaster: [Elusive Brawler] (thematically coherent, tied to resource management)
    • Windwalker: [Bottled Fury] (thematically coherent, tied to resource management)
    • Discipline: [Shield Discipline] (thematically coherent, central to rotation)
    • Subtlety: [Executioner] (thematically coherent, tied to resource management)
    • Demonology: [Master Demonologist] (thematically coherent, tied to resource management)
    • Destruction: [Emberstorm] (thematically coherent, tied to resource management)
    • Fury: [Unshackled Fury]: (thematically coherent, central to rotation)

  13. #173
    Well, to give some hope to those who play a spec with a boring mastery:

    Blizzcon is two weeks away. New expansion usually means the most radical changes to the game that ever happen.

    I main an Elemental Shaman and it's the most fun I've had yet playing any class. My alt is a Fury Warrior, which I used to love, but has since grown dull.

  14. #174
    The Patient Kuul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    303
    Quote Originally Posted by Skandulous View Post
    same shit different day...everybody still runs the same cookie cutter builds specs enchants gems and reforges its no different than how the old talent system used to be
    I guess I'm doing something wrong then because I tend to switch between Barrage and Glaive Toss a lot (and that was just an example).
    Sure there could be some tweaking here and there but imo the talent system is a lot better than the previous ones. The only problem I see with the current talent system is that leveling up an alt gets boring because you don't get talent points to spend that often and that was kind of rewarding everytime you leveled up back in the days. Maybe some mix of the old and new system in next expansion? Like keep the current talents as "the big ones" and then put smaller talents between the big ones, similarly how the glyphs work.
    Last edited by Kuul; 2013-10-26 at 01:34 AM.

  15. #175
    Bloodsail Admiral Memory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,052
    I'd like it if they didn't change it all time. Although it's an ingenious (and developing-friendly) way of fueling class-specific mechanics that scale with gear.

  16. #176
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Having beers with Dorothy
    Posts
    16,491
    mastery was nothing more then a replacement for the removed old talent trees where we could decide on if we wanted better procs.

    In a way its good because you can increase master at your leisure so you might get better procs on certain abilities, but it also makes those abilities very gear defendant.
    Big thanks to Davillage for awesome signature

  17. #177
    I liked it as it was originally conceived, as stated at Blizzard's Greg Street on new systems in Cataclysm :
    There is a Mastery rating bonus as an item stat that will start showing up on gear, levels 80-85. If you have that, it’ll improve the passive bonuses unique to your mastered talent tree. There’s 30 of them, and that’s a way of ensuring mastery is important to everyone because it affects something that’s important to them.

    There’s also a slight Mastery bonus you’ll get for wearing the correct type of armour, so for example, it’s a way of making sure warriors wear plate instead of taking mail or leather.
    So originally I thought that mastery was a way of making gear itemization easier because mastery gear would be useful across all specs. I think they got really far away from that and now it's just another stat to balance that's good for some specs and crappy for others. Personally I don't think it's added much to the game except some unnecessary complexity.

  18. #178
    It sounded fun when it was first announced but it just ended up being another stat that was either good or bad for most specs. Most specs have bland flat % masteries that are just as boring as any other stat also.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Aruhen View Post
    It sounded fun when it was first announced but it just ended up being another stat that was either good or bad for most specs. Most specs have bland flat % masteries that are just as boring as any other stat also.
    Exactly. Shadow priest mastery is a chance for your dots to tick twice. Isn't that pretty much what crit does? Okay, I realize that it's not exactly the same (and I'll probably get some nasty comments about it ), but the general idea is. In a perfect world, I would want mastery to completely change one's playstyle. Maybe go for a lot of mastery and do a certain rotation, or try to avoid it and go for something completely different.
    Last edited by lopk; 2013-10-26 at 07:10 AM.

  20. #180
    Honestly, I think it's the most interesting stat, secondary or not. Some specs don't have very good ones, that's true, but overall I like it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •