Thread: Combat opener

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    Verain: Check your stat scaling. For example, my rogue's haste EP is quite high (I'm at almost 2.1EP for haste according to shadowcraft). If you have a high haste EP and not much haste on gear, it can be pretty limiting.

    For reference, my haste EP is high enough that the quilen hide boots I have (the crafted 522, upgraded to 530 of course), the optimal gemming is straight haste and ignore the 120 mastery socket bonus. Also the 480 haste JC gems provide a higher EP than the 320 agi ones (since my haste EP is > 2/3 of the agi EP).
    Armory link plz

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    I find this logic a lot more compelling now that I have a TED. However, my reasoning in general is this:

    Every second you wait in blank is a second where you don't have green, a second where you don't have yellow instead of green, and on average hurts your red uptime in exchange for blank. I'm willing to bet that, say, the AoC proc is better off being powered into green, where it now is 10% more of a proc, and that the loss of those buffs on adrenblades in relatively lower....


    But we're both just going with intuition and coming up with slightly different effects. Given that I have two trinkets, one of which begins as a double proc and then ramps down to nothing, I could easily buy that THAT would make a difference- or that ANY set of trinkets does that (exception: blades of renataki definitely rewards bigger burst at the tail, and prenerf it was my favorite trinket ever).
    Well, I do get that delaying green delays all of them, but that doesn't necessarily cost you red uptime unless you end the fight where you are X seconds from red up until X seconds from red dropping where X is your delayed time. Its not like your cycling speed is really effected, just when you start. Also, I'm pretty sure that the agi from procs is worth more than 10%.

    Renataki's imo is a larger reason to do what I'm suggesting. You mention how awesome that proc is at the end and yet you'd opt to not have it up when you hit AR/SB?

  3. #23
    I find this opener to work best for me: RvS( for 1 stack of bandit guile )>SnD>followed by 3 SS ( gain Shallow Insight), then lowering energy to min with SS> KS> again lowering energy to min and +5 combo points(moderate insight)>AR+SB > Eviscerate>SnD>SS ...>>. This helps me to perform buffed KS early after opener and refresh the cd, also to reach deep insight faster.

  4. #24
    I like to build to at least 4 CPs before turning SnD on the first time, I find that if I activate SnD with lower than 4 Cps I have to refresh it mid deep insight and thats not good at all, so I go Ambush > RS > SS > SnD > KS > SS till low energy > Adremblades on my opener. Dont realy care whats my insight when I use the first KS, I have an heroic AoC so if I do things correctly I have KS out of CD on the last 5 seconds of my Deep Insight so I find it much better to use my first KS with no insight at all than holding for green and risking not having KS back while still in deep insight.
    Last edited by DakonBlackblade; 2013-10-29 at 01:48 PM.

  5. #25
    Im running with normal AoC, but when i play it right, there are 3 sec on deep insight left by the time 2nd KS is ready( most of the times)

  6. #26
    High Overlord Byaah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilj View Post
    I haven't touched combat since cata

    But I'm assuming the rotation is amb >snd> sinx2 > rs> rup or the opener
    Ambush -> Reveal Strike -> SnD -> SS till green (this will put you low evergy) -> Now use KS -> 1 SS -> AR/SB

    Only time you will every rubture is Deep Insight (Red Buff) and the mob will live the entire duration (also you must have SnD/RS up)

  7. #27
    Mechagnome -Raer-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byaah View Post
    Ambush -> Reveal Strike -> SnD -> SS till green (this will put you low evergy) -> Now use KS -> 1 SS -> AR/SB

    Only time you will every rubture is Deep Insight (Red Buff) and the mob will live the entire duration (also you must have SnD/RS up)
    By the time you SS to green, your trinkets will likely be over. I advise against pushing to green, instead using KS with your trinkets. 30k agility in procs is going to be worth more than 10% increased damage.

    Rupture is a gain, albeit small, at any Insight level. You really need to stop spreading this misinformation.

  8. #28
    High Overlord Byaah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Raer- View Post
    Rupture is a gain, albeit small, at any Insight level. You really need to stop spreading this misinformation.
    This is very very wrong. I will not argue with you further as to be polite to the OP and respect his/her post. As for getting to "green" insight, it takes less than 10 seconds to do this.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Warstar View Post
    I'd recommend using a few SS's in there to get down in energy so you don't cap with killing spree right off the bat. Waste of precious energy right there!

    Ambush -> SnD -> RvS -> SS til low on energy then start up the CD rotation.
    I usually energy cap even if I drop myself to 0 before popping KS. I go ambush>snd>ks so it can come back up faster.

  10. #30
    Stood in the Fire Ujio's Avatar
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    I was under the assumption it was ambush > snd > rvs > ss > blades / rush > ss / evis spam> red insight killing spree? Im just getting back into my rogue as well really been playing monk all of MoP
    "You’ve shown great conviction. Strength. Courage. All noble qualities. I should have killed you long ago."

  11. #31
    In my gear, I blow KS on the pull and have it back up with about 4-5 seconds left in deep insight.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Ujio View Post
    I was under the assumption it was ambush > snd > rvs > ss > blades / rush > ss / evis spam> red insight killing spree? Im just getting back into my rogue as well really been playing monk all of MoP
    If KS and AR are both off cooldown, you pretty much never want to hit AR before you hit KS. This is especially true if you have an AoC. The reason is that all the finishers you do during AR/SB will remove the majority of the cooldown on KS.

    And I think you're better off blowing your cds immediately after SnD to get maximum up time on your guaranteed agi procs on the pull.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    If KS and AR are both off cooldown, you pretty much never want to hit AR before you hit KS. This is especially true if you have an AoC. The reason is that all the finishers you do during AR/SB will remove the majority of the cooldown on KS.

    And I think you're better off blowing your cds immediately after SnD to get maximum up time on your guaranteed agi procs on the pull.
    If that second half was directed at me then, yeah, I do. Also, you auto attack during KS so SnD is great.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Byaah View Post
    This is very very wrong. I will not argue with you further as to be polite to the OP and respect his/her post. As for getting to "green" insight, it takes less than 10 seconds to do this.
    Rupture does more damage and has a higher dpe than eviscerate at any insight level.
    It is a true statement that you replace an eviscerate with it at any insight level for a small dps gain, as long as you aren't overlapping them and the target is alive through the entire duration.

    By the way, saying, "this is very very wrong" does not refute a statement in any worthwhile way.
    Last edited by Maelstrom51; 2013-10-29 at 09:54 AM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Byaah View Post
    This is very very wrong. I will not argue with you further as to be polite to the OP and respect his/her post. As for getting to "green" insight, it takes less than 10 seconds to do this.
    Rupture is a gain in any insight as long as its running for its entire duration, it deals more damage than evis therefore it will deal more damage in green/yellow or red its not rocket science. Also I find that waiting for green insight before the first KS tends to screw trinkets/dancing steel procs and you run a very real risk of not having your KS off CD while still on deep insight, its much better to KS right after you turn S&D on imo.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Byaah View Post
    This is very very wrong. I will not argue with you further as to be polite to the OP and respect his/her post. As for getting to "green" insight, it takes less than 10 seconds to do this.
    No. You're the one who is wrong. Rupture is a gain over eviscerate regardless of insight level. So if you only use it at deep like you suggested in another thread, you are missing out on other eviscerates you could have replaced with ruptures. Now the difference is trivial because the difference between using or not using rupture at all is trivial, but I have an issue with blatantly wrong info being spread.

    Also those less than 10 seconds can be a big deal because guess what only lasts 10 seconds? Rppm agi procs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulestu View Post
    If that second half was directed at me then, yeah, I do. Also, you auto attack during KS so SnD is great.
    Nah, both were to Ujio.

  17. #37
    Opener is Ambush > SnD > Immediately KS > RVS > etc. KS also buffs your Flurry proc which you get 100% at the start every time with trinkets. At a high gear level gemming haste especially, not using energy first is not that big of a deal. Not only that but you will be going into AR shortly after so its really a wash. Combat with AoC is how many CD rotations you can squeeze into your uptime these days.

  18. #38
    Stood in the Fire Ujio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    If KS and AR are both off cooldown, you pretty much never want to hit AR before you hit KS. This is especially true if you have an AoC. The reason is that all the finishers you do during AR/SB will remove the majority of the cooldown on KS.

    And I think you're better off blowing your cds immediately after SnD to get maximum up time on your guaranteed agi procs on the pull.
    Thanks - makes sense. I didn't actually think about it like that.
    "You’ve shown great conviction. Strength. Courage. All noble qualities. I should have killed you long ago."

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